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Thread: Another new guy with problems

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    Another new guy with problems

    Just received my TF-100 Test Kit and took the appropriate readings. I have been battling green algae on and off for most of the summer. Just when it seems that we have it corrected, all appears well for 3 or 4 days and then it starts to get green again. I've completely had it with the pool stores. It seems like they want to sell me more stuff very time that I am there....powdered shock by the case, another treatment for cloudiness, a treatment for hardness and the list goes on. I began reading through the info on this site and it seems very practical.

    Current readings
    CYA 50
    FC 17.5
    CC 1.5
    TC 19
    CH 625
    TA 100
    PH 7.5

    I will take the readings for the OCLT and have a better idea in the morning. Any idea why the CH would be so high? I am also trying to figure out the pool math page. I have the Chlorine/CYA chart. Based on the readings, it looks like I need to SLAM.

    Thoughts?
    Brian W. - Portland, CT
    27' Round AGP, approx. 17,000 gallons, Pentair Clean & Clear 150 Cartridge Filter, TF-100 Test Kit with Speedstir.
    Installed by Rizzo Pools - Newington, CT in April 2015

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    Great first post. Welcome to TFP and good to have you here.

    The powdered shock you've been using is probably calcium hypochlorite and that could be part of the high calcium, but I wouldn't worry about that too much.

    Good news is that your CYA is at a good level, and yes, SLAM is the way to go. Stock up on bleach, 15 gallons wouldn't be too much to buy at this stage. You can buy anything plain, not scented, not splashless, as long as it has a % of sodium hypochlorite on it. I wouldn't buy anything weaker than 8.25% and check the manufacture date. It will read something like 16180 (16 = 2016 and 180 = 180th day of the year, or about end of June). Walmart has 10% liquid pool shock and sometimes you'll find 12.5% pool chlorinating liquid. It's all the same as far as your SLAM goes, except that you'll carry less water with 10% or 12.5% because it's stronger. $2.50 - $3 per gallon is what to shoot for.

    This thread might point you to a good place to buy it: 2016 bleach prices - Page 15

    Read this: Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
    And this: Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals
    And follow this to the letter: Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
    And you will annihilate algae.

    MMMaintain 20 FC and BBBrush. It should go fast cause you've already been hitting it. Think about algae hiding places like behind skimmer weir, under ladder rungs and behind wedding cake steps or anywhere else you can think of. Clean the slime out of your filter when pressure rises 25% above your clean pressure. Hate the algae.

    Thanks again for taking advantage of the resources here and for starting off with a great post.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwalsh00 View Post
    Just received my TF-100 Test Kit and took the appropriate readings. I have been battling green algae on and off for most of the summer. Just when it seems that we have it corrected, all appears well for 3 or 4 days and then it starts to get green again. I've completely had it with the pool stores. It seems like they want to sell me more stuff very time that I am there....powdered shock by the case, another treatment for cloudiness, a treatment for hardness and the list goes on. I began reading through the info on this site and it seems very practical.

    Current readings
    CYA 50
    FC 17.5
    CC 1.5
    TC 19
    CH 625
    TA 100
    PH 7.5

    I will take the readings for the OCLT and have a better idea in the morning. Any idea why the CH would be so high? I am also trying to figure out the pool math page. I have the Chlorine/CYA chart. Based on the readings, it looks like I need to SLAM.

    Thoughts?
    Wow, you've been busy and done your homework, welcome! Please follow recommendation already provided.
    I'm just curious how water looks now with FC=17.5 and how long it's been at that level? Judging by non 0 CC stuff is going on for sure but what has been happening there over last few days? This is just for my information only, you should be able to proceed without answering these questions. Please note pH test gives invalid results when FC > 10 so you can pretty much focus on FC & CC tests until the end of SLAM. If partial drain is possible may be you should consider that before SLAM, it would speed up SLAM too. I just don't want you to kill all the algae and then drain water to reduce CH if it ever comes to that.
    44k plaster pool, Pentair 011018 pump, DE6020 filter, LED lights, K2006 test kit

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    Good catch on not bothering to test pH, Max.

    To explain Max's perspective on calcium in context with my advice, your water is a wee bit scaly, which would matter more in a plaster pool or if you had a saltwater chlorinator. I ignored calcium because it's mid-august now and if it were me, I'd just jump into the SLAM ASAP to preserve swim season. It's a fair point that your calcium is a bit high, and the management for that is to run your pH a bit low (7.2 to 7.4 - your water is probably around 7.2 now after correcting for the high FC). Without any removal of calcium, you'll need to keep your TA down and maybe drop it a bit lower.

    Draining some water would reduce the calcium and your CYA. If CYA was reduced to 40, then you could SLAM at FC 16. It's not a big concern to me either way. If I didn't mind buying some water, and had the time, I might exchange 20% of the water. It would be worth checking your fill water CH and TA before deciding that, if you want to do a water exchange. If the fill water has high TA, then I wouldn't do it. The fill water CH is mostly just interesting to me to know if that's some of the source of your high CH over time, but my bet is that the calcium arrived with cal-hypo shock.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    Quote Originally Posted by needsajet View Post
    Good catch on not bothering to test pH, Max.

    To explain Max's perspective on calcium in context with my advice, your water is a wee bit scaly, which would matter more in a plaster pool or if you had a saltwater chlorinator. I ignored calcium because it's mid-august now and if it were me, I'd just jump into the SLAM ASAP to preserve swim season. It's a fair point that your calcium is a bit high, and the management for that is to run your pH a bit low (7.2 to 7.4 - your water is probably around 7.2 now after correcting for the high FC). Without any removal of calcium, you'll need to keep your TA down and maybe drop it a bit lower.

    Draining some water would reduce the calcium and your CYA. If CYA was reduced to 40, then you could SLAM at FC 16. It's not a big concern to me either way. If I didn't mind buying some water, and had the time, I might exchange 20% of the water. It would be worth checking your fill water CH and TA before deciding that, if you want to do a water exchange. If the fill water has high TA, then I wouldn't do it. The fill water CH is mostly just interesting to me to know if that's some of the source of your high CH over time, but my bet is that the calcium arrived with cal-hypo shock.
    I missed the location & pool season - my bad. Probably you need to go straight to SLAM to save any of the remaining days and deal with CH next year, it's not urgent for your liner.
    44k plaster pool, Pentair 011018 pump, DE6020 filter, LED lights, K2006 test kit

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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    Thanks for all the advice. We are on well water at our house and the well is original to the property and dates back to the 1940s. Therefore, there is not enough yield/recovery to even top off the pool (not even a few inches). My new best friend is Charlie's Water Wagon! I will try to get a sample of the water that he delivers the next time I need a top off and take a look at the chemistry. According to the Pool Contractor, after the pool was filled, the pool chemistry was great and all I needed was chlorine and a little conditioner.

    The results of the OCLT:
    FC 13.5
    CC 0.5
    TC 14
    CH 525

    So, I am noting a drop in FC of 4ppm overnight in 10 hours. The CC is down to 0.5 which is more in the normal range? I re-tested the CH twice because of the high readings. 525 is a little better. Perhaps I was just a little overwhelmed by the chemistry lesson and misread something. Still high but not 625. The pool is blue this morning but still cloudy. I will re-clean the cartridge and let it run. PoolMath tells me that I need to add 164 oz. of 8.25% bleach to raise to SLAM level. Time to add some bleach and go get some more.

    Assuming the pool clears up, what is a reasonable expectation on the amount of bleach that will need to be added on a daily basis to maintain FC at 4 to 8ppm? Prior to starting this process, I just purchased a bucket of the large tabs. There is still a floater in my pool that has 3 of them. Should I discontinue use of the floater? What can I do with the extra tabs?
    Brian W. - Portland, CT
    27' Round AGP, approx. 17,000 gallons, Pentair Clean & Clear 150 Cartridge Filter, TF-100 Test Kit with Speedstir.
    Installed by Rizzo Pools - Newington, CT in April 2015

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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    The tabs will increase your CYA levels, which is going to make your SLAM level Shock level go up too, and increase overall chlorine demand.

    I know it stinks, but the tabs are a big part of the problem usually in the pool in the sense they increase CYA, which increases FC demand to the point if you miss the window, things start to grow.

    I'd boot the tabs and keep SLAMing with just the bleach honestly, especially since you lucked out and CYA is at 50, which is as high as you probably want it to be anyways.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Assuming the pool clears up, what is a reasonable expectation on the amount of bleach that will need to be added on a daily basis to maintain FC at 4 to 8ppm?


    At the bottom of PoolMath, after you've entered all your details, there's a section you can play with which tells you what effect adding X will do. You can then play with the numbers to get the amount you should put in daily, but ballparking, i'd say a 1/4 to a 1/2 gallon of bleach everyday once you're slam is complete. But trust the pool math, not me
    Lee Mims - Orange, TX, 25400 gallon In-Ground Plaster Pool
    Hayward Cartridge Filter, Hayward Chlorine Feeder, Century 1081 2-Speed Pool & Spa Pump, Hayward H350FDN (350k BTU) Natural Gas Water Heater, Paramount O3 Ozone, Hayward Super II Pump for Waterfall, Aqualink RS System w/ Remote (Jandy), Taylor K-2006 Kit

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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    Brian W. - Portland, CT
    27' Round AGP, approx. 17,000 gallons, Pentair Clean & Clear 150 Cartridge Filter, TF-100 Test Kit with Speedstir.
    Installed by Rizzo Pools - Newington, CT in April 2015

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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwalsh00 View Post
    Thanks for all the advice. We are on well water at our house and the well is original to the property and dates back to the 1940s. Therefore, there is not enough yield/recovery to even top off the pool (not even a few inches). My new best friend is Charlie's Water Wagon! I will try to get a sample of the water that he delivers the next time I need a top off and take a look at the chemistry. According to the Pool Contractor, after the pool was filled, the pool chemistry was great and all I needed was chlorine and a little conditioner.

    The results of the OCLT:
    FC 13.5
    CC 0.5
    TC 14
    CH 525

    So, I am noting a drop in FC of 4ppm overnight in 10 hours. The CC is down to 0.5 which is more in the normal range? I re-tested the CH twice because of the high readings. 525 is a little better. Perhaps I was just a little overwhelmed by the chemistry lesson and misread something. Still high but not 625. The pool is blue this morning but still cloudy. I will re-clean the cartridge and let it run. PoolMath tells me that I need to add 164 oz. of 8.25% bleach to raise to SLAM level. Time to add some bleach and go get some more.

    Assuming the pool clears up, what is a reasonable expectation on the amount of bleach that will need to be added on a daily basis to maintain FC at 4 to 8ppm? Prior to starting this process, I just purchased a bucket of the large tabs. There is still a floater in my pool that has 3 of them. Should I discontinue use of the floater? What can I do with the extra tabs?
    If you still had tabs in the floater your FC overnight loss test is invalid- there should be no sources of chlorine in the pool during test and it still has to lose no more than 1 ppm FC. With floaters and still 4ppm loss you have some cleaning ahead of you.
    44k plaster pool, Pentair 011018 pump, DE6020 filter, LED lights, K2006 test kit

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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    You're getting good advice! MMMaintain and BBRUSH. As long as it takes. You're doing great. Keep it SLAMin. The harder you hit it (but not beyond shock level) the quicker it goes.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    I wanted to follow-up and post some new results.

    FC 7
    CC 0
    TC 7
    CYA 40
    TA 80
    CH 400
    PH 7.3 - 7.4

    Last night's OCLT was 1ppm of FC lost overnight. CC 0. Is it safe to say that the SLAM worked? Max2k, thanks for the heads up. I hadn't taken the floater into consideration. It had almost nothing left in it but it probably skewed the previous results. I also have no explanation for the change in CYA, TA and CH. The only things that have changed are that I recently got a Speedstir which definitely makes things easier. We have also been pounded with heavy rains overnight the last 3 or 4 days. Each day, I have had to drain a least a couple of inches. Would all of this additional rainwater in the pool have that much of an effect on pool chemistry or am I just getting better with more accurate results?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, Poolmath says that I should add 24 oz by volume of Borax to increase the pH to 7.6. The pH test is a little subjective. Based on what I see, it could be 7.3 to 7.4 (but definitely greater than 7.2 on the scale). We have Borax - 20 Mule Team - on-hand for household cleaning. Is this added directly to pool?
    Brian W. - Portland, CT
    27' Round AGP, approx. 17,000 gallons, Pentair Clean & Clear 150 Cartridge Filter, TF-100 Test Kit with Speedstir.
    Installed by Rizzo Pools - Newington, CT in April 2015

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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    Leave pH alone.
    Pool installed 8/2015. 30' round Radiant pool. 21,000 gallons. 200# sand. Hayward Vari flow XL valve. 1.5hp Hayward Power-Flo Matrix running 10 hours/day in two periods. TF100 with speed stir. Sun all day, south side of house
    Order test kit TF-100 w/ Speed Stir and then Poolmath Calculator --- RECOMMENDED LEVELS --- POOL SCHOOL --- Algae? --- Chlorine/CYA CHART.

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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwalsh00 View Post
    I wanted to follow-up and post some new results.

    FC 7
    CC 0
    TC 7
    CYA 40
    TA 80
    CH 400
    PH 7.3 - 7.4

    Last night's OCLT was 1ppm of FC lost overnight. CC 0. Is it safe to say that the SLAM worked? Max2k, thanks for the heads up. I hadn't taken the floater into consideration. It had almost nothing left in it but it probably skewed the previous results. I also have no explanation for the change in CYA, TA and CH. The only things that have changed are that I recently got a Speedstir which definitely makes things easier. We have also been pounded with heavy rains overnight the last 3 or 4 days. Each day, I have had to drain a least a couple of inches. Would all of this additional rainwater in the pool have that much of an effect on pool chemistry or am I just getting better with more accurate results?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, Poolmath says that I should add 24 oz by volume of Borax to increase the pH to 7.6. The pH test is a little subjective. Based on what I see, it could be 7.3 to 7.4 (but definitely greater than 7.2 on the scale). We have Borax - 20 Mule Team - on-hand for household cleaning. Is this added directly to pool?
    your pH is good as it is, I wouldn't do anything about it.

    That much of the 'external' water + draining of the pool would change concentrations and would show up on tests.

    How does water look?
    44k plaster pool, Pentair 011018 pump, DE6020 filter, LED lights, K2006 test kit

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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    The water is still a little cloudy. I just drained another couple of inches and brushed it. Added another gallon of bleach.

    - - - Updated - - -

    A bunch of debris in the pool from last night's storm. expecting another storm later this afternoon. Too hot!
    Brian W. - Portland, CT
    27' Round AGP, approx. 17,000 gallons, Pentair Clean & Clear 150 Cartridge Filter, TF-100 Test Kit with Speedstir.
    Installed by Rizzo Pools - Newington, CT in April 2015

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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwalsh00 View Post
    The water is still a little cloudy. I just drained another couple of inches and brushed it. Added another gallon of bleach.

    - - - Updated - - -

    A bunch of debris in the pool from last night's storm. expecting another storm laster this afternoon. Too hot!
    Debris is the only problem with rain water otherwise it will help to bring your CH down- if you also keep draining.

    Please watch your CYA level as it will also go down and you might need to add a little soon if it drops below 40- you need CYA to protect chlorine from the Sun just not too much. Another problem with CYA it is often misread too low leading to selection of wrong line in FC/CYA chart and eventual algae problem even though it seems FC level was 'normal'. If you got 50ppm CYA sample with your kit try to measure that to verify you're reading CYA level correctly or at least follow instructions on this site how to take the reading.

    Always monitor FC & pH, especially after such water 'events'.
    44k plaster pool, Pentair 011018 pump, DE6020 filter, LED lights, K2006 test kit

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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    Great thread. Good work OP! Speedstir really helps with the testing.

    If water is a serious concern have you considered expanding your water supply with some storage tanks to pump overflow into for the dry season?
    18'x43' Sport Pool
    19,000 Gallons Vinyl Liner 3'-3.5'-4'
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    Test Kits - Pool Calculator - Chlorine/CYA Chart - Pool School

    Secret Weapon for Pool Chemistry Testing

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    SLAM is not over until the water is clear. Focus on FC testing and top-ups and good advice above to be sure of your CYA level.

    Hope the weather gets better for swimming, but cloudiness is handy for doing a SLAM. MMMaintain!!!
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: Another new guy with problems

    OK Current results:

    FC 9
    CC 0
    TC 9
    TA 80
    CH 375
    CYA 40

    The results of the OCLT are a 1ppm drop in FC overnight. The water is clear for the first time in a while. I need to check the pH now that we are below SLAM level. Just in time for 2-3 weeks left of swimming here in New England.
    IMG_8620.jpg
    Brian W. - Portland, CT
    27' Round AGP, approx. 17,000 gallons, Pentair Clean & Clear 150 Cartridge Filter, TF-100 Test Kit with Speedstir.
    Installed by Rizzo Pools - Newington, CT in April 2015

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