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Thread: hydrogen peroxide

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    hydrogen peroxide

    A friend of mine sent me this link the other day (he was Googling how to lower his Bromine levels in his SPA).

    I am both baffled an confused by this "article". It goes against everything that I have learned here. Would love your thoughts:

    35% Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide; pool and spa disinfecting
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    Re: hydrogen peroxide

    Isn't the internet great? It allows access to near limitless knowledge. It also allows every wing nut trying to sell their "Pure Health System" the ability to post some words in a professional looking manner and be taken seriously. Look at the site more closely, they offer "natural help" for such things as AIDS and cancer (including a book called The Cure for all Cancers). They have a paper on their site that says you can protect yourself from Ebola by boosting your immune system with peppermint, basil, and rosemary. Intravenous use of hydrogen peroxide??? Holy cow that is the opposite of a healthy idea, but they promote it.

    Seriously, don't bother even giving this joke of a web page the dignity of being argued.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
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    Re: hydrogen peroxide

    I'm not going to go into a lengthy response because that website is typical pseudo-science BS. Any website that makes an appeal to fear by citing chlorine gas as being used in WWI to kill people is not a rational website. Obviously it is someone trying to promote an "alternative to chlorine" position. It would be a waste of my time to discuss anything that site has to say and it has all been covered here on TFP.

    Peroxide can NOT be used as a method of pool/spa sanitation because it is not possible to maintain a high enough residual peroxide level to be practical. The EPA only recognizes three chemicals as pool sanitizer - chlorine, bromine and Baquacil. Peroxide is not one of them. Peroxide would have to be held at concentrations of nearly 50-100ppm to even come close to the CT kill times associated with chlorine/bromine. That is well above the threshold that would be very irritating to eyes and skin.

    Peroxide can be used to regenerate bromine from the bromide bank in a spa but it is less effective that just using chlorine bleach to do so. If one wanted to have a spa with no halogens in it, then one could use the Nature2 system (silver ions) in conjunction with MPS as an oxidizer. But that will be very expensive and bather waste will likely take longer to oxidize. In a Nature2 system you'd want to have a UV sanitizer system as well to help with the bather waste.
    Matt
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    Re: hydrogen peroxide

    WOW. I did not even peruse the website at all, I originally was reading it on my phone. I just knew it wasn't right

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    I'm not going to go into a lengthy response because that website is typical pseudo-science BS. Any website that makes an appeal to fear by citing chlorine gas as being used in WWI to kill people is not a rational website. Obviously it is someone trying to promote an "alternative to chlorine" position. It would be a waste of my time to discuss anything that site has to say and it has all been covered here on TFP.

    Peroxide can NOT be used as a method of pool/spa sanitation because it is not possible to maintain a high enough residual peroxide level to be practical. The EPA only recognizes three chemicals as pool sanitizer - chlorine, bromine and Baquacil. Peroxide is not one of them. Peroxide would have to be held at concentrations of nearly 50-100ppm to even come close to the CT kill times associated with chlorine/bromine. That is well above the threshold that would be very irritating to eyes and skin.

    Peroxide can be used to regenerate bromine from the bromide bank in a spa but it is less effective that just using chlorine bleach to do so. If one wanted to have a spa with no halogens in it, then one could use the Nature2 system (silver ions) in conjunction with MPS as an oxidizer. But that will be very expensive and bather waste will likely take longer to oxidize. In a Nature2 system you'd want to have a UV sanitizer system as well to help with the bather waste.
    That is the first time I have ever heard ANYONE say anything remotely positive about a Nature 2 system. My friend asked me about it and I say NO WAY, RUN THE OTHER WAY. But that was for pools. He has a UV on his hot tub BTW.

    I'm trying to help him because I'm new to hot tubs.
    15,000 gallon free form Viking fiberglass pool. Hayward Star-Clear Plus C12002 cartridge filter. Hayward Swim Pure Plus T-15 SWG. Testing with TF-100 Kit. 2 speed 1.5HP Supreme pump. Dolphin Nautilus robotic cleaner

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    hydrogen peroxide

    Silver ions OK. Silver plus copper, BAD!!

    On the road. Will clarify later.
    Matt
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    Re: hydrogen peroxide

    Quote Originally Posted by nlindelldc View Post
    That is the first time I have ever heard ANYONE say anything remotely positive about a Nature 2 system. My friend asked me about it and I say NO WAY, RUN THE OTHER WAY. But that was for pools. He has a UV on his hot tub BTW.
    Chlorine or bromine are much better options in a hot tub, but because of the specific circumstances that exist in one (small water quantity and heat) silver is more effective than in a large lukewarm pool. Combined with MPS it is a system that works and is EPA approved, but is not something you will get much advice for here. In a pool though silver is only a secondary sanitizer that must be used with chlorine or bromine.
    JD - 28' Round Above Ground Pool, 17,000 Gallons. Dual speed Jacuzzi pump with cartridge filter. Dual speed 1 HP pump, Hayward S210T sand filter
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    Re: hydrogen peroxide

    Quote Originally Posted by Donldson View Post
    Chlorine or bromine are much better options in a hot tub, but because of the specific circumstances that exist in one (small water quantity and heat) silver is more effective than in a large lukewarm pool. Combined with MPS it is a system that works and is EPA approved, but is not something you will get much advice for here. In a pool though silver is only a secondary sanitizer that must be used with chlorine or bromine.
    ^^^^ what he said ^^^^
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: hydrogen peroxide

    Thanks for the replies regarding silver.

    So it seems that even in a hot tub using Silver you still need chorine/bromine so why bother getting one?
    15,000 gallon free form Viking fiberglass pool. Hayward Star-Clear Plus C12002 cartridge filter. Hayward Swim Pure Plus T-15 SWG. Testing with TF-100 Kit. 2 speed 1.5HP Supreme pump. Dolphin Nautilus robotic cleaner

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    Re: hydrogen peroxide

    Quote Originally Posted by nlindelldc View Post
    Thanks for the replies regarding silver.

    So it seems that even in a hot tub using Silver you still need chorine/bromine so why bother getting one?
    No. You could go chlorine free in a hot tub. Just not in a pool.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: hydrogen peroxide

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    No. You could go chlorine free in a hot tub. Just not in a pool.
    Ahh, okay. Makes sense. Thanks!
    15,000 gallon free form Viking fiberglass pool. Hayward Star-Clear Plus C12002 cartridge filter. Hayward Swim Pure Plus T-15 SWG. Testing with TF-100 Kit. 2 speed 1.5HP Supreme pump. Dolphin Nautilus robotic cleaner

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    Re: hydrogen peroxide

    Just for clarification here for people that may be reading along the Nature2 system for Spa's use silver ions, the Nature2 system for pools use copper so very different.

    Ike
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    Re: hydrogen peroxide

    I hope you understand that when you sling statements about what is right and true, there is a danger of you being wrong too. So what's a reader to do? I am just saying.
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    Re: hydrogen peroxide

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimi C. View Post
    I hope you understand that when you sling statements about what is right and true, there is a danger of you being wrong too. So what's a reader to do? I am just saying.
    I'm not sure who this is directed at, but please understand that TFP's basic principles are based on science and facts, we never just 'sling statements'. As a matter of fact, I take great pride and satisfaction in the accurate and complete information found on this site.
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    hydrogen peroxide

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimi C. View Post
    I hope you understand that when you sling statements about what is right and true, there is a danger of you being wrong too. So what's a reader to do? I am just saying.
    I'd say this is blanket statement that covers every human being..



    As for chlorine -- well I'm asked a dozen times a week, if I recommend an "alternative" to chlorine.
    My answer always "well managed chlorine saves millions of lives everyday, in fact civilization would collapse without it & it is the most popular sanitizer because it is abundant & economical"

    I know I'm a little over the top with my answer, but it's a dialogue I like to end quickly. Just imagine our modern world without chlorine for a day or so...

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    Re: hydrogen peroxide

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolguyinCT View Post
    ...... Just imagine our modern world without chlorine for a day or so...
    This sums it up for me.

    Chlorine has helped to bring sanitary conditions to many, many parts of the world....... From drinking water to sanitary hospital environments.
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    Re: hydrogen peroxide

    Best. Sentence. Ever!
    My answer always "well managed chlorine saves millions of lives everyday, in fact civilization would collapse without it & it is the most popular sanitizer because it is abundant & economical"
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