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Thread: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

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    Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    The plaster team finished plastering Monday afternoon and even with the help of 6 neighbors, it took 3 1/2 days to fill. After running the pumps and filters for 24 hours, we took a sample of the water in and the results were:
    Total Chlorine .2
    Free Chlorine 0
    pH 7.5
    Total Alkalinity 120
    Calcium Hardness 125
    Stabilizer 0

    We were warned by the Hydrazzo rep not to hyperchlorinate the pool (we aren't supposed to use the salt system or the heaters for 28 days) or it could bleach the finish on the plaster, so at the direction of our pool store guy we added 6 pounds of shock yesterday at 6 pm yesterday (without the concern about the Hydrazzo, he would have recommended 12 pounds) and took a sample of water to the pool store today and the results were:

    Total Chlorine 0
    Free Chlorine 0
    pH 7.4
    Total Alkalinity 110
    Calcium Hardness 75
    Stabilizer 0

    He said to put 3 pounds of the powdered chlorine in each of two 5 gallon buckets and let it dissolve for 20 minutes, pour what is dissolved into a skimmer, then wait 20 more minutes and again pour what is dissolved into the pool. He said to test it every 12 hours and if the free chlorine is 1 or below, to repeat this.

    He said it could take a week or even two to get the pool to hold the chlorine. I have purchased the new TFP test kit, but thought I should rely on the testing of someone at the pool store at the beginning which is so critical to protect the plaster.

    Questions:
    1. Our children and grandchildren have arrived and the extended family is due on Wednesday for a family reunion - 41 people (the pool was supposed to be completed by May 1). The pool guy said it could take one to two weeks or more to get the pool to "hold" the chlorine. The PB said no problem with swimming immediately, but the pool store guy said absolutely not. How dangerous is it to swim before the proper chlorine level has been reached?2. Does anyone have any experience with Hydrazzo and have a sense if there is anything else we could be doing to hurry up the chlorination without compromising the plaster finish?

    3. Three of the skimmers are barely drawing and I cannot see water through the glass on one of the pumps. I can't reach the person who connected the equipment and I am concerned that I should turn off the pump because I have heard I can ruin it if it "runs dry." Any advice?
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    No salt and no heater for 30 days is correct.

    Trust your testing. We do. We don't want to see pool store test results and you shouldn't either. Take your time and follow the instructions it isn't all that difficult. If you are a more detailed instructions person then here they are, Pool School - Extended Test Kit Directions

    Has any CYA been added to the pool. Aka stabilizer. If not then add 40 ppm in a sock or two as shown here, Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals I get mine at Lowes. Use PoolMath, link above, to calculate the amount to add to get to 40 ppm.

    Then starting tomorrow keep chlorine at target level for CYA of 40 at all times. FC/CYA Chart. I would use bleach. I buy the store brand at the grocery store, 8.25%. Unscented and not easy pour or splashless. Test and add in the morning and the evening.

    Maintain your pH between 7.5 and 7.8 at all times. Check at least once a day. Twice if it rises above 7.8.

    That's it three things. CYA, FC and PH. We can worry about other things in a few days after you get really good at these.

    It is safe to swim when
    FC is above minimum for your CYA, to keep the pool safely sanitized
    FC is below shock level for your CYA, FC/CYA Chart
    PH Is between 7.2 and 7.8
    The water is clear

    Check FC 2 or 3 times a day to make sure it never drops below minimum, FC/CYA Chart. When FC FC drops below minimum the pool is no longer properly sanitized and risk of person to person disease transmission increases.

    And swim away!
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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    Thank you pooldv.

    Would the regimen you describe be considered hyper-chlorinating? My understanding is that most pool plasters can take that but that Hydrazzo can not.

    Also, could you refer my pump question to the appropriate forum? I understand we aren't supposed to post on multiple forums.
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    No, not even close. Hyper chlorinating is more like shock level for your cya.

    For the pump issue, you probably just need to backwash the sand filters. Make note of the clean pressure and backwash when the pressure rises 20-25% above clean pressure.


    It is fine to post on multiple forums. We just ask that you don't ask the same question in multiple threads/forums. But, we can answer it here, I just missed it.
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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    [QUOTE=
    For the pump issue, you probably just need to backwash the sand filters. Make note of the clean pressure and backwash when the pressure rises 20-25% above clean pressure.
    [/QUOTE]

    The pool guy is going to teach me all about taking care of the equipment on Monday, but I remember seeing the dial on the sand filter that I could turn to backwash. But I think he said the pumps have to be turned off before you should turn that dial, right? I don't know how to turn off the pumps. I hate to delay the backwashing and therefore the chlorinating until Monday, but I am afraid I will hurt the equipment by doing it wrong. But I also hate to delay the proper chlorination of the pool as we have all of these people coming in. Any thoughts?

    And how do I determine the clean pressure?
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    No reason to delay chlorinating. In fact, it is important not to delay chlorinating. Or you will get algae and your pool will turn green and then you will have to SLAM the pool to kill the algae which will involve raising chlorine to shock level.

    Clean pressure is the pressure reading after you backwash the filter.

    Here is how to
    Pool School - Maintenance and Cleaning of Pool Filters
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    I have been told to add Jack's Magic - The Purple Stuff - I have read Pool School and didn't see any mention of when to add it for the first time.
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    You can add it now.
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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    Who is going to manage this pool water chemistry? Is the PB gonna' show you how to turn pumps off and on? Are you filling from a well?

    You have a lot of pretty sophisticated equipment on that pool and it sounds like you need some hands on help so you can learn.

    Chemistry-wise, please read "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School to get started.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    After concluding the FAS-DPD Chlorine Test and getting the pool water clear after 2 drops of R-0871, to get a CC reading of 0.5, we left the sample on the table for a few minutes and it gradually turned a slight pink again. Was the test concluded when we initially got it clear and therefore we should ignore the fact that it turned pink again, or do we need to keep adding more drops of R-0871 which will of course raise our CC reading?
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    More Info: We are on city water. The FC level from testing this morning was 8. We have not added any Stabilizer. I am headed to Lowes in a few minutes to buy some.

    We couldn't find any instructions on how to pour the Purple Magic in, so we just poured it into the pool.

    I used an AquaChek strip this morning that showed the pH (by color) as over 8. I want to get a more accurate measure by using my TF-100 Test Kit, but it doesn't have either the R-0014 or the R-0004. I can't understand this as I asked for everything I could possibly need. I guess I can go down to the pool store and have them check it, but surely there is something in this kit to test the pH?

    We found a dead frog in one of the pump baskets (probably because we were missing a skimmer basket which has now been replace) which is why it wasn't working properly we think. So both are at the same pressure now and seem to be ok.

    Is it safe to swim this afternoon after putting stabilizer in the pool?
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    Once the test goes clear it is finished. Any co,or change after that doesn't count.

    The R-0004 and PH test is in the K-1000 blue test kit box.
    Looks like this, K-1000 TFTestkits.net

    Yes, it is safe to swim immediately after adding CYA.
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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    Found it. Thank you!

    We retested and the FC is down to .5 so we are headed out to get the stabilizer. We are hoping to find liquid stabilizer at one of the pool stores that open at 1 pm since we need to get the pool chlorinated quickly.

    The pool guy said if we lost the chlorine level (which we have) to put 6 lbs of chlorine again (diluting it first). We have just realized it is unstabilized chlorine. Should we wait to buy a higher quality stabilized chlorine along with the stabilizer which would delay putting chlorine in the pool for a couple of hours? Any recommendation on the type of chlorine to buy? (stabilized is better?)

    Also, I guess the pool is not safe to swim in since we lost the chlorine level. How long does the chlorine level need to hold before it is safe to swim?
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    There is no need to wait for CYA to add bleach to the pool. I use generic, store brand bleach from the grocery store, 8.25% unscented. FC needs to stay above minimum for your CYA at all times to avoid algae. FC/CYA Chart, use 20 if it is 20 or less. Adding granular is fine, use a knee high or two and get in the pool and squeeze it a lot. It can be dissolved in an hour or two. It will show on the test 24 hours after it is dissolved.

    When you add bleach it will raise the FC almost immediately, you can swim in 15 minutes.
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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    The pool is showing no chlorine again - even after shocking with 6 pounds of shock 3 hours ago. Because the Hydrazzo is so sensitive (the marble dust in it instead of quartz makes it smoother but also more temperamental), I am concerned about putting straight bleach in the pool. Should I start a new thread with Hydrazzo in the title to try draw someone who has experience with that type of pool finish?
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by BrownEyedSusan View Post
    The pool is showing no chlorine again - even after shocking with 6 pounds of shock 3 hours ago. Because the Hydrazzo is so sensitive (the marble dust in it instead of quartz makes it smoother but also more temperamental), I am concerned about putting straight bleach in the pool. Should I start a new thread with Hydrazzo in the title to try draw someone who has experience with that type of pool finish?
    what about 6 pounds of shock which just went in there? I believe it has FC concentration multiple times over the bleach.
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    Hydrazzo is already in your thread title. Chlorine is chlorine. It doesn't matter whether it comes from bleach or liquid chlorine or cal-hypo or dichlor or trichlor. It is the same chlorine.

    All new pool finishes are sensitive to high levels of chlorine. You don't have any chlorine in your pool. The reason that you don't is because you have organic material and sunshine consuming it. If you don't add more chlorine and maintain chlorine above 0 in your pool then algae and bacteria will grow in your pool.

    More here, Pool School - How to Chlorinate Your Pool and here, ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    Some advice for you:
    Hydrazzo is a premium plaster finish, but no finish can handle hyperchlorination. The recommendations here would be safe in a vinyl pool, which is a lot softer and more easily damaged surface than your plaster.

    Given the above statement what you said here would really concern me as it would be really very harsh on any pool without CYA
    so at the direction of our pool store guy we added 6 pounds of shock yesterday at 6 pm yesterday (without the concern about the Hydrazzo, he would have recommended 12 pounds)


    The people here (especially the mods) know more about pool chemistry than most if not all of the pool stores and you are getting their advice for free. Their advice is based on sound scientific research and years of practical experience

    The pool store is giving you advice but their knowledge comes from chemical sales reps, who want to sell products

    You have one of the most accurate test kits available, learn to use it. There are even videos available on youtube to show you how. Most test are simply counting drops until the colour changes, easy peasy

    You can test after you dump chemicals in after pool store advice and see what it does. It will probably NOT be good for the care of your plaster. Even better put the doses recommended by the pool store into pool math and see what it will do BEFORE you put it into your pool. Or ask here and get unbiased knowledgeable feedback

    A pool should hold chlorine from day 1. You need chlorine to kill bacteria and pathogens to keep your water safe for swimmers, otherwise you risk transmission of everything from athletes foot to giardia from one person to another

    Chlorine will also kill algae and keep your pool clear

    Chlorine is used up by killing bacteria, pathogens, algae and exposure to sunlight. Most pools here lose 2-4ppm per day from sunlight exposure. If you added 6lb of dichlor that gave you 7ppm, which you lost in less than a day, leaving the pool unsanitised for hours

    Your chlorine level is determined by your CYA (stabiliser) level. CYA buffers the chlorine, both for pool surfaces and swimmers, holding some in reserve. However too much CYA is a bad thing

    Liquid chlorine (aka bleach, sodium hypochorite) is chlorine stabilised with water, so no side effects Dry chlorine is stabilised with either calcium or CYA, meaning at some time (often quicker than you realise) you have to drain and refill to correct pool levels for excessive calcium (Plaster scale forms) or CYA (Chlorine wont work).

    Should we wait to buy a higher quality stabilized chlorine
    Higher price does not mean higher quality. Higher price just means pretty packages and often additives you do not want

    You should always wait between adding different chemicals, but if the pump is running half an hour is plenty of waiting time

    Please Please Please read the "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" so you understand what chemical does what and this post, so you know how to add them.
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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    My brother-in-law handled the chemicals during our Family Reunion which is now over and I am back to trying to figure out how to do this. I have read the ABC's of Pool Chemistry and the post you recommended and have been using the TFT-100 test kit. My pH has stayed consistently at 7.2. My FC was 2.5 yesterday and is 1.0 tonight with TA 150 and CH 250. I put 8 pounds of stabilizer in socks two days ago and it was dissolved tonight, so I can't test the CYA until tomorrow. Since my FC is too low, how do I decide how much chlorine to put in tonight? I have the big tabs that you have recommended I not use anymore and only 1 gallon of bleach. Also have a bucket of chlorine I had used for shock. I have grandchildren coming tomorrow who want to swim and I want to be sure to get to a sufficient chlorine level. Thanks for your help.
    25 x 60 IG, 10' sunshelf, 24' sh, 26' dp; 57,600 gallons; 8' Jump Board; Hayward Equipment: 2 Sand Filters 36" Tank S360T2; 2 TriStar 5.0 HP FR Pumps SP3250EE; 2 Natural Gas Heaters H400FDN; OmniLogic; Sense & Dispense HL-CHEM; 2 SWG; pH Dispense Acid Feed System AQL-CHEM4-ACID; 2 systems work independently; Hydrazzo Plaster; TigerShark 2 Plus Commercial Robotic; 1 Spa and 3 ColorLogic lights; CoverStar automatic cover.

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    Re: Just Filled Hydrazzo Pool - Chemistry and Pump Questions

    Good rule of thumb.

    CYA - add little bits at a time as the only way to lower it is dilution(replacing water)

    Chlorine - no harm if you add too much as it will dissipate over time on its own (sunlight or organic consumption)


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