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Thread: Spa water level dropping

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    Spa water level dropping

    New construction pool with attached spa. I turned the spa on (no heat), to get the plaster dust out. The water was level with the back edge of the spillover, after. About 30 mins, i noticed the water level dropped 2 1/2" and I turned it off when it go below the tile. If the valves are in spa suction/spa return, why is the water level dropping? Where is it going? I am doing the bucket test in the spa, and marked the levels, I will not run the spa or spill over this weekend.

    Very odd, the system was pressurized during construction. I always went up or down a 1-2 lbs during the day but was under at least 26-28lbs when plaster was done. The valve are open/closed the correct direction. Spa bypass is off.

    I am not going to go crazy as assume underground pipe leak but this does not give me a "warm & fuzzy" feeling.
    33x19, 3'4"-5'6", 7ft spa, baja reef, 14'x9', 18" deep, 10,668 Gal. Quartzite coping, Stonescape Tropics Blue mini-pebble, abalone & glass beads. Jandy Equip.(JXi heater, 2.7HPVS pump, PLC1400 SWG, CV580 filter, Aqualink, LEDs)
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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    The valve actuators rotate slowly to prevent water hammer from occurring. If the pump ran continuously while the valves rotated back to the pool then that is normal to lose some water from the spa. You do not have a leak.

    Use the spa make up line to top the spa back off.
    -Brian-
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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    okay, but it looked like if I left it in spa mode it was just going to keep going down. It dropped to the bottom of the tile and I assume it would have kept going down? So I can expect the spa to drain in spa mode? I know this is a really dumb question, but all my friends which spas say the water level does not go down when they have the spa on for hours. With my limited experience being only this pool you can see why I was concerned that it dropped so much. PB said maybe a valve is not closing all the way? Or they plumbed something incorrectly? He does not think it's a leak he thinks water is going back into the pool. Anything else I can troubleshoot over the weekend vs just waiting?
    33x19, 3'4"-5'6", 7ft spa, baja reef, 14'x9', 18" deep, 10,668 Gal. Quartzite coping, Stonescape Tropics Blue mini-pebble, abalone & glass beads. Jandy Equip.(JXi heater, 2.7HPVS pump, PLC1400 SWG, CV580 filter, Aqualink, LEDs)
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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    Take a picture of the valve positions.

    I imagine when you were brushing you were in the spa and a good amount of water spilled over that you displaced. That water will not get replaced until you fill the spa again.

    Just switching from pool to spa mode will drop the water level a little while the suction and return valves are both in the open position
    -Brian-
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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    Nope, I turned the spill over on to fill the spa after I brushed, the water level was exactly the height of the back edge of the spill over. I then turned to spa mode and after 40 mins in spa mode the water lever dropped 2 1/2" of water. Would the check valve or bypass loop have anything to do with this? the bypass valve is off so no water is going into the loop to the check valve.

    I can't move the valves to spa now as I have been set up for the bucket test since 9am this morning. PB told me to shut off the spa and manually put chlorine in it and report back the water level on Monday.

    I know the valves were facing the correct way, the off on the Jandy handle actuator is facing pool returns on the return side and pool suction on the suction side. What else above ground would cause this? My PB said something about the actuator not closing all the way or there is a leak around one of the spa fittings or main drains, of the plumbers did something backwards. But if that was the case I would be losing water with a static test, I am not losing water unless the spa is one.
    33x19, 3'4"-5'6", 7ft spa, baja reef, 14'x9', 18" deep, 10,668 Gal. Quartzite coping, Stonescape Tropics Blue mini-pebble, abalone & glass beads. Jandy Equip.(JXi heater, 2.7HPVS pump, PLC1400 SWG, CV580 filter, Aqualink, LEDs)
    TF-100, Doheny Discovery robot.

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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    But the spa held after losing 2-1/2"?
    -Brian-
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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    Looked like it was going to keep going, i did not keep it going down, it was at the bottom of the tile. I just cant figure its a valve issue but i have limited knowledge. I am going to hope you are correct about no pipe leak. I am not sure we can deal with pulling this deck up again.

    Just does not make sense. I would figure a pipe leak would have shown up, the system was under pressure since november dropped about 4 psi in 8. 1/2 months. I pointed that out to the pb they said its not a leak. Open to all ideas
    33x19, 3'4"-5'6", 7ft spa, baja reef, 14'x9', 18" deep, 10,668 Gal. Quartzite coping, Stonescape Tropics Blue mini-pebble, abalone & glass beads. Jandy Equip.(JXi heater, 2.7HPVS pump, PLC1400 SWG, CV580 filter, Aqualink, LEDs)
    TF-100, Doheny Discovery robot.

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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    Well 27 hours later, both the water in the bucket and spa water level dropped the same, about 1/4". So it appears there is not a static leak in the spa? I willl let it roll through the weekend. If there was a broken pipe wouldnt i also lose water even if the spa mode is off? I am still perplexed as to what could cause it to drop. I searched the internet until 1am looking for answers, found similar issues, but the person never reported back as to how it was fixed or the it was a check valve.

    Is it possible for the dirverter in the valve to be open just a bit letting retun water escape to the pool even if the actuator and handle are pointing in the right direction?

    Another thought i had is when in spa mode, its a loop, spa suction/spa return. If water is leaking past the diverter and going to pool ruturns, that could explain the water level dropping, but if that is the case, would i be able to feel water coming out the pool returns??

    Photos of valves in spa mode

    33x19, 3'4"-5'6", 7ft spa, baja reef, 14'x9', 18" deep, 10,668 Gal. Quartzite coping, Stonescape Tropics Blue mini-pebble, abalone & glass beads. Jandy Equip.(JXi heater, 2.7HPVS pump, PLC1400 SWG, CV580 filter, Aqualink, LEDs)
    TF-100, Doheny Discovery robot.

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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    The valve positioning is correct and the check valve can be ruled out because it is out of the loop when in spa mode. The way your make up line is plumbed does not allow water into the pool return side of the plumbing when in spa mode. Issues with the diverter style valve are pretty uncommon.

    To clarify, if you put the pump into spa mode, the spa water level will drop 2-1/2" inches and stop?
    -Brian-
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    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    I am running a test right now. I marked the spa water level, i put the pump in spa mode, once the valves moved to spa mode. To rule out water getting to the pool returns, i unlocked the manual pool return valve handle and turn the handle off to the inlet side of the pipe which causes the dirverter to block water flow. See photo, i have a manual valve after the automated valve, it control pool returns, deep heat and wall reurns. I deadheaded this one so the diverter is blocking the inlet, so if the automated valve is letting spa return water get past to the pool returns, this will stop the leaking water going to the pool returns.


    I will put it back this valve back into the correct position before i put it in pool mode but this should eliminate any water from getting to the pool returns. So, if the water level in my spa drops, is not going back into the spa and its, not going to the pool returns, so where is it going? I have a stop watch going since i turned spa mode on. Will report back in an hour.

    Here is a photo of the pool return valve to the right of the automated valve. Notice i turned the diverter blocking the inlet. Dont ever do this with the system running in pool mode as i have the system in spa mode, if this was done in pool mode i would have a major issue as with the inlet closed off there is no where for pool return water to go if this were put into pool mode by mistake.

    33x19, 3'4"-5'6", 7ft spa, baja reef, 14'x9', 18" deep, 10,668 Gal. Quartzite coping, Stonescape Tropics Blue mini-pebble, abalone & glass beads. Jandy Equip.(JXi heater, 2.7HPVS pump, PLC1400 SWG, CV580 filter, Aqualink, LEDs)
    TF-100, Doheny Discovery robot.

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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    I think i have isolated the issue to the automated return valve. I ran my test in spa mode for 2 hours and the water level did not change, well maybe a couple onces due to wind blowing water into the spillway from wave action of the jets. So there is no staitc leak, and it appears the diverter in the automated return valve is somehow letting water pass to the pool return lines. Still need to figure out whats happening with that valve, but i feel better that it does not appear to be a pipe leak. I am going to run the test again with the pool return valve open in spa mode to see if the spa water level drops again
    33x19, 3'4"-5'6", 7ft spa, baja reef, 14'x9', 18" deep, 10,668 Gal. Quartzite coping, Stonescape Tropics Blue mini-pebble, abalone & glass beads. Jandy Equip.(JXi heater, 2.7HPVS pump, PLC1400 SWG, CV580 filter, Aqualink, LEDs)
    TF-100, Doheny Discovery robot.

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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    Update, this is really weird. So i put it back in spa mode and open the pool return valve, see first photo above. This is the same position that dropped the water level in the spa 3" in about 45mins before i shut it off.

    Well, its been running in the same mode now for 30 mins and the water level has not dropped. What the heck! I did manually move the auto valve today after disconnecting from the drive. Perhaps something was lodged in the diverter?

    Very odd, i was figuring the water level would drop again. Not sure what to do here but watch it?

    Hopefully this helps somebody else.
    33x19, 3'4"-5'6", 7ft spa, baja reef, 14'x9', 18" deep, 10,668 Gal. Quartzite coping, Stonescape Tropics Blue mini-pebble, abalone & glass beads. Jandy Equip.(JXi heater, 2.7HPVS pump, PLC1400 SWG, CV580 filter, Aqualink, LEDs)
    TF-100, Doheny Discovery robot.

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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    Nice job fixing your pool!
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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Nice job fixing your pool!
    Thanks, but i am going to run it again to make sure. After the spill over fills it. Its really hard to get an exact measurement. I was filling it to the back edge of the spillover but in spa mode the water bubbles and some spills over. Will keep an eye on it.
    33x19, 3'4"-5'6", 7ft spa, baja reef, 14'x9', 18" deep, 10,668 Gal. Quartzite coping, Stonescape Tropics Blue mini-pebble, abalone & glass beads. Jandy Equip.(JXi heater, 2.7HPVS pump, PLC1400 SWG, CV580 filter, Aqualink, LEDs)
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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    I think it was a fluke thing to begin with. As I mentioned before, the diverter valves rarely have issues.
    -Brian-
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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    Quote Originally Posted by bdavis466 View Post
    I think it was a fluke thing to begin with. As I mentioned before, the diverter valves rarely have issues.
    That would be par for the course for me and the pool. Still really odd behavior. The return valve handle is not perfectly in-line with the pipe by 1-2 degrees. The suction valve handle is perfectly lined up with the pipes. Could this be a factor? Not sure how much play there is before water can leak by.

    Suction valve


    Return valve
    33x19, 3'4"-5'6", 7ft spa, baja reef, 14'x9', 18" deep, 10,668 Gal. Quartzite coping, Stonescape Tropics Blue mini-pebble, abalone & glass beads. Jandy Equip.(JXi heater, 2.7HPVS pump, PLC1400 SWG, CV580 filter, Aqualink, LEDs)
    TF-100, Doheny Discovery robot.

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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    That shouldn't be enough to allow water to flow through but the cams inside the actuators are easy enough to adjust to correct that slight offset if you so chose.
    -Brian-
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    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    There is more play than that.
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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    All fixed, I adjusted the cams on the actuator just needed to be moved 1 click on each, not sure it made any difference on the diverter position, but it's perfectly lined up with the plumbing now. thanks!
    33x19, 3'4"-5'6", 7ft spa, baja reef, 14'x9', 18" deep, 10,668 Gal. Quartzite coping, Stonescape Tropics Blue mini-pebble, abalone & glass beads. Jandy Equip.(JXi heater, 2.7HPVS pump, PLC1400 SWG, CV580 filter, Aqualink, LEDs)
    TF-100, Doheny Discovery robot.

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    Re: Spa water level dropping

    More odd behavior, came home from work today and saw the water level in the spa was below the tile by about 1". Pool pump has been on all day in pool mode. I walked over and check to make sure the valve are in the correct position, they were. So i put it i to spill over mode to fill the spa back up, when i hear the auto fill turn on about 1 minute later. So if the spa water drained into the pool the water level in the pool would be higher, so why would the auto fill need to put more water back in the pool when i was filling the spa with pool water? Where did the spa water go?
    33x19, 3'4"-5'6", 7ft spa, baja reef, 14'x9', 18" deep, 10,668 Gal. Quartzite coping, Stonescape Tropics Blue mini-pebble, abalone & glass beads. Jandy Equip.(JXi heater, 2.7HPVS pump, PLC1400 SWG, CV580 filter, Aqualink, LEDs)
    TF-100, Doheny Discovery robot.

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