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Thread: New guy with a lot of questions

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    New guy with a lot of questions

    Hi,
    I just found this forum and I'm glad I did but my head is "swimming" with all the chemicals, procedures, and advice I have been getting - I'm lost.

    Here is my story, hopefully some of you will help me on my way.

    I just bought a new home and in the backyard is a 16 x 32 x 8 - 22,000 gallon in ground pool. I have not worked with a pool since I was a kid in the late 60's to early 70's! I don't recall doing much back then other then putting chlorine in everyday, of course my parents really were handling most of the work. Now I read about shocking, slamming, FC, CC, Ph , TA, Phosphates, etc. Oh man what did I get myself into? If it wasn't for the fact my 3 year grandson loves the pool I might consider filling it in= But I have to admit I do like it.

    The previous owner was very nice but threw everything at me in a 45 minute crash course that was scattered about , from shocking to closing, to using the robot vacuum that the more I tried to write down the more mixed up I became. Am I the only one going through this?

    So the pool was clear the first 3-4 days I owned the house, then the other day I could see green slime, algae I guess, on the liner. I brushed it down and ran the robot vacuum for about 8 hours and it is clear now. I bought a Leslie's ( Taylor) test kit that checks FC, CC, TA, & PH. When I finished vacuuming I back flushed the sand filter for 2 minutes, rinsed for 1 minute, then put back into filter mode. The next day I checked the water in the afternoon.

    My test report.
    FC= 5 ppm
    Total C = 5 ppm
    Combined -0- ppm

    PH = 7.5

    TA = 100 ppm

    So still not knowing if I did the test correct I took a sample to the local Leslies and they checked for a lot more. I wanted to see if my results were the same as theirs and I would trust theirs more then mine since they do this everyday.

    Their Test results

    FC= 3 ppm lower then my kit
    TC =3 ppm
    Calcium Hardness = 200 ppm
    CYA= 90 ppm
    TA = 90 ppm
    PH = 7.6
    Copper =0
    Iron = 0
    TDS= 100
    Phosphates 400 ppb I was told this is too high and should be below ppb

    The previous homeowner told me to follow their procedure:

    2 gallons of liquid shock 1x week , run filter 24 hrs
    4 - 3" SLO-TAB 8 99% Trichloro (89% avail Chlorine) 24/7
    2- Active caplets- Chlorinator- 68% Calcium Hypochorite - 2 in the skimmer basket all the time

    SO, I think my pool is safe but would like to know for sure. Next what do I do? Follow the owners procedure but wouldn't the Fc be too high? The pool is in the sun all day. Looking around the pool store the price of chemicals really adds up, I see others using Muriatic acid, or Soda Ash to control the PH and Bleach for chlorine. Do I need pool store chemicals or can I use Walmart, Ocean State Job Lot, or others?

    The people I spoke with at the Leslies were very nice and accommodating but I didn't want to take up all their time when they have other customers.

    Please help! I am a car guy not a pool guy!

    Thank you for listening and any support offered.

    Gary
    Gary
    New Haven, CT
    16 x 32 x 8 in-ground vinyl , sand filter
    22,000 gallons
    Leslie test kit, TF100 test kit

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by gtr1999 View Post
    Hi,
    I just found this forum and I'm glad I did but my heading "swimming" with all the chemicals, procedures, and advice I have been getting I'm lost. Here is my story, hopefully some of you will help me on my way.

    I just bought a new home and in the backyard is a 16 x 32 x 8 22,000 gallon in ground pool. I have not worked with a pool since I was a kid in the late 60's to early 70's! I don't recall doing much back then other then putting chlorine in everyday, of course my parents really were handling most of the work. Now I read about shocking, slamming, FC, CC, Ph , TA, Phosphates, etc. Oh man what did I get myself into? If it wasn't for the fact my 3 year grandson loves the pool I might consider filling it in= But I have to admit I do like it.

    The previous owner was very nice but threw everything at me in a 45 minute crash course that was scattered about , from shocking to closing, to using the rotor vacuum that the more I tried to write down the more mixed up I became. Am I the only one going through this?

    So the pool was clear the first 3-4 days I owned the house, then the other day I could see green slime, alge I guess, on the liner. I brushed it down and ran the robot vacuum for about 8 hours and it is clear now. I bought a Leslie's ( Taylor) test kit that checks FC, CC, TA, & PH. When I finished vacuuming I back flushed the sand filter for 2 minutes, rinsed for 1 minute, then put back into filter mode. The next day I checked the water in the afternoon.

    My test report.
    FC= 5 ppm
    Total C = 5 ppm
    Combined -0- ppm

    PH = 7.5

    TA = 100 ppm

    So still not knowing if I did the test correct I took a sample to the local Leslies and they checked for a lot more. I wanted to see if my results were the same as theirs and I would trust theirs more then mine since they do this everyday.

    Their Test results

    FC= 3 ppm lower then my kit
    TC =3 ppm
    Calcium Hardness = 200 ppm
    CYA= 90 ppm
    TA = 90 ppm
    PH = 7.6
    Copper =0
    Iron = 0
    TDS= 100
    Phosphates 400 ppb I was told this is too high and should be below ppb

    The owner told me to follow their procedure

    2 gallons of shock 1x week , filter 24 hrs
    4 - 3" SLO-TAB 8 99% Trichloro (89% avail Chlorine)
    2- Active caplets- Chlorinator- 68% Calcium Hypochorite - 2 in the skimmer basket all the time

    SO, I think my pool is safe but would like to know for sure. Next what do I do? Follow the owners procedure but wouldn't the Fc be too high? The pool is in the sun all day. Looking around the pool store the price of chemicals really adds up, I see others using Muriatic acid, or Soda Ash to control the PH and Bleach for chlorine. Do I need pool store chemicals or can I use Walmart, Ocean State Job Lot, or others?

    The people I spoke with at the Leslies were very nice and accommodating but I didn't want to take up all their time when they have other customers.

    Please help! I am a car guy not a pool guy!

    Thank you for listening and any support offered.

    Gary
    buy Tf100 Test kit as soon as you can, you'll thank yourself later. Don't trust pool store results when it comes to FC/CYA/pH testing they're notoriously wrong on those tests. Stock up on liquid chlorine (LC) - plain bleach is very popular source (not scented, not splashless) 8.25% preferred. If you can find pool store nearby selling LC at 12.5% even better, less water to carry around.

    Good news: pool chemistry didn't get very far from what you knew in the 60x contrary to what you might read / was told by nice people at Leslie's. The only change from those times is addition of chlorine buffer chemical called Cyanuric Acid (CYA for short) and realization the Free Chlorine (FC) and CYA need to be at certain ratio for your pool to be crystal clear and safe: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...art-slam-shock. The third parameter pH is also important but usually doesn't require drastic quick measures to adjust. That's pretty much it, the remaining parameters are 'fine tuning' and they can wait for weeks, not urgent at all. Oh and the Internet was invented so you can read about all this without leaving your house . This site provides plenty of resources from very high level all the way to research grade articles if you feel inclined to go that deep. Beats any pool store in expertise level by several orders of magnitude. Again, only if you're interested otherwise just at pool care level it is still very simple.
    44k plaster pool, Pentair 011018 pump, DE6020 filter, LED lights, K2006 test kit

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    one more thing- please remove any chemical dispensers from your water immediately and don't add anything besides LC until your test kit arrives. You're flying blind at the moment and you know how that usually ends. LC has a nice property to truly 'disappear' from your water besides sanitizing it so if you for some reason change your mind later (no one did so far) you will be able to do so. Most of the chemicals you listed are very difficult to remove later.

    I'd add 2 gal of bleach right way and then keep adding 1/2 gal daily until you get your test kit. That's as much as you can do blindly. You can use any store to buy LC/bleach, it's all the same. Just read the label and make sure it contains only sodium hypochlorite, water and nothing else.

    BTW, I'm not familiar with Leslie's test kit but if you could post its name here it would help to determine what tests you might be missing so you don't have to buy the entire kit. We're after FAS/DPD test for FC, and specific test for CYA not sure which ones you got. Someone else will most likely clarify this shortly.
    44k plaster pool, Pentair 011018 pump, DE6020 filter, LED lights, K2006 test kit

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    I think the test kit he bought already is fine, it's the Taylor test kit branded as Leslies.
    AGP 33' x 54" Lomart Verona, Approx. 27,300 gallons, Pentair cartridge filter/pump 2-speed, 1.5 hp, Dolphin Escape robotic cleaner.

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by chipchip View Post
    I think the test kit he bought already is fine, it's the Taylor test kit branded as Leslies.
    right, I'm just not sure why CYA was not listed in his results and if FC came from FAS/DPD or just DPD test. Some of the Taylor's (2005?) had limited set of tests. In case of coming SLAM he'd need that.
    44k plaster pool, Pentair 011018 pump, DE6020 filter, LED lights, K2006 test kit

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by max2k View Post
    right, I'm just not sure why CYA was not listed in his results and if FC came from FAS/DPD or just DPD test. Some of the Taylor's (2005?) had limited set of tests. In case of coming SLAM he'd need that.
    That's true, I was just afraid he seemed a bit overwhelmed already.

    Don't worry though Gary, maintaining a pool is really simple using the methods here, and also inexpensive. You don't need all the chemicals at the pool store, no worries. Is your test kit the 2006 or the 2005, do you know? Everyone here will help you along to get going and you won't believe how easy it is to keep a sparkling clear pool!
    AGP 33' x 54" Lomart Verona, Approx. 27,300 gallons, Pentair cartridge filter/pump 2-speed, 1.5 hp, Dolphin Escape robotic cleaner.

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Thank you Max and Chip. Yes I do feel a bit overwhelmed, a crash course in pool chemistry along with all the other things involved with a move, work, and part time work!

    I will have to take a picture of the test kit but was told it is the deluxe kit made by Taylor for Leslies.

    So to clear up some of my questions, pun intended, do I stay with (4)- 3" tablets in the floating dispenser and the 2 caplets in the skimmer basket 24/7? Do you think my test results and that of the store are really way off, they seemed very close and the chemicals in the kit are new. The pool is still clear and I would like to keep it like that. The only chlorine I used are the tablets and the chlorinator( 68% calcium Hypochorite)

    If I follow the previous owners procedure of 2 gallons of shock a week what results would I expect to see? Is the bleach pretty much the same thing?

    When is it considered unsafe for use? That is what concerns me the most, I don't want family or friends getting sick over swimming.

    Thanks again,
    Gary

    - - - Updated - - -

    This is the kit I bought

    http://www.lesliespool.com/taylor-te...kit/k-1004.htm
    Gary
    New Haven, CT
    16 x 32 x 8 in-ground vinyl , sand filter
    22,000 gallons
    Leslie test kit, TF100 test kit

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by gtr1999 View Post
    Thank you Max and Chip. Yes I do feel a bit overwhelmed, a crash course in pool chemistry along with all the other things involved with a move, work, and part time work!

    I will have to take a picture of the test kit but was told it is the deluxe kit made by Taylor for Leslies.

    So to clear up some of my questions, pun intended, do I stay with (4)- 3" tablets in the floating dispenser and the 2 caplets in the skimmer basket 24/7? Do you think my test results and that of the store are really way off, they seemed very close and the chemicals in the kit are new. The pool is still clear and I would like to keep it like that. The only chlorine I used are the tablets and the chlorinator( 68% calcium Hypochorite)

    If I follow the previous owners procedure of 2 gallons of shock a week what results would I expect to see? Is the bleach pretty much the same thing?

    When is it considered unsafe for use? That is what concerns me the most, I don't want family or friends getting sick over swimming.

    Thanks again,
    Gary

    - - - Updated - - -

    This is the kit I bought

    http://www.lesliespool.com/taylor-te...kit/k-1004.htm
    Is buying another kit an option? This one is missing 2 important tests: FAS/DPD and CYA. It is impossible to follow TFPC method of pool care without those.

    Any form of solid chlorine brings CYA along with chlorine. CYA tends to quickly accumulate with time and while it is needed to prevent fast FC breakdown from the Sun too much of it will bound all available FC and you end up with green pool at high concentration of FC, this is the most often problem we see here stemming from tablets use. Liquid chlorine contains chlorine only and is free from this side effect. Don't throw your tablets, they are still useful but not for daily pool care.

    If you continue the previous owner routine it might work or not- hard to tell without seeing crucial number of CYA concentration and we can't trust pool store on that test. In the past they usually were too low and they show 90 ppm now which is above recommended: The Chart. It would also depend how much swimming season you have left, how much water can you drain/refill. I live in the water restricted area and that was simply cost prohibitive for me.

    Private pools are generally safe even with algae growth- it's just not much pathogens floating around to begin with. There's always non zero risk of course but it's much less than the same problem in public setting. If you follow TFPC method your pool will be safe even in general case when someone with active infection gets into your pool as water would contain enough FC to kill it (infection) before it gets chance to jump over.

    You can buy smaller K2006 kit but it has less reagents so you'll be buying refills next season so in the long run TF100 provides better value.
    44k plaster pool, Pentair 011018 pump, DE6020 filter, LED lights, K2006 test kit

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Ok so it sounds like I need to get another test kit, the tf100? wish I knew about that before I walked into the pool store or at least had better support. I think the previous owner had a local pool store test and setup the program they used and I can't say it was bad because the pool was clear.

    Where are good places to find the tf100 kits, online or do places like WalMart sell them?

    I guess the good news is the pool is still safe to use. I won't get back there for a day or so and will retest with my current kit until I can locate the tf100.

    I will follow up once I have more information to share.

    Thank you

    Gary
    Gary
    New Haven, CT
    16 x 32 x 8 in-ground vinyl , sand filter
    22,000 gallons
    Leslie test kit, TF100 test kit

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by gtr1999 View Post
    Ok so it sounds like I need to get another test kit, the tf100? wish I knew about that before I walked into the pool store or at least had better support. I think the previous owner had a local pool store test and setup the program they used and I can't say it was bad because the pool was clear.

    Where are good places to find the tf100 kits, online or do places like WalMart sell them?

    I guess the good news is the pool is still safe to use. I won't get back there for a day or so and will retest with my current kit until I can locate the tf100.

    I will follow up once I have more information to share.

    Thank you

    Gary
    The kit should be easy to locate- it's all over this site sold through something like TFTestkits.com. Disclosure: there's affiliation between TFTEstkits.com and this site, I believe TFTestkits sponsors the site. I personally have nothing to do with either and I'm here just for the fun of it. I have extensive experience in other fields where I learned the science starts when you can get reliable test results. This site promotes straightforward and affordable approach to the pool care, those tests are actually cheaper on TFTestkits than anywhere else so I have no problem recommending them. Since I bought a smaller version of the kit originally from Amazon I needed refills recently and got them from TFTestkits. I cross checked reagents on the same samples of water and they were interchangeable producing the same results in any combination. Note that the reagents were 1.5 years apart in manufacturing dates. From my point of view 'that's the numbers I can live with' .

    Good news TF100 is the only kit you'll ever need My chem storage looks way simpler than the previous owner's: just chlorine, MA, DE for the filter and the test kit. That's all my pool needed over last 1.5 years.
    44k plaster pool, Pentair 011018 pump, DE6020 filter, LED lights, K2006 test kit

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by max2k View Post
    The kit should be easy to locate- it's all over this site sold through something like TFTestkits.com. Disclosure: there's affiliation between TFTEstkits.com and this site, I believe TFTestkits sponsors the site. I personally have nothing to do with either and I'm here just for the fun of it. I have extensive experience in other fields where I learned the science starts when you can get reliable test results. This site promotes straightforward and affordable approach to the pool care, those tests are actually cheaper on TFTestkits than anywhere else so I have no problem recommending them. Since I bought a smaller version of the kit originally from Amazon I needed refills recently and got them from TFTestkits. I cross checked reagents on the same samples of water and they were interchangeable producing the same results in any combination. Note that the reagents were 1.5 years apart in manufacturing dates. From my point of view 'that's the numbers I can live with' .

    Good news TF100 is the only kit you'll ever need My chem storage looks way simpler than the previous owner's: just chlorine, MA, DE for the filter and the test kit. That's all my pool needed over last 1.5 years.
    First....no on tftestkits.com

    The site that sells the TF-100 is in my signature and is tftestkits.net .......this is an important distinction

    Gary welcome to TFP

    Let's slow down just a bit and start with the basics. I'll post links below. The amount of chlorine in your pool required to sanitize and keep algae at bay is dependent upon what your CYA measurement is. To clear algae you do need to follow the SLAM process. Consider a complete test kit and not using the stores "free" testing if you want to take control of your pool. Do some reading in the below links and post questions as you have them and you will find no shortage of help on this forum.

    Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
    Pool School - Test Kits Compared
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart
    Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

    Welcome again
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
    http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Thank you Aimee.

    I looked over the information links and it sure did help. I never heard of Slamming a pool, slamming a car yes. So if my pool store test results are correct then the CYA is 90 and that would be a problem correct? That makes sense if the previous owner was keeping 4 tablets in the floater and 2 caplets in the skimmer and shocked the pool with 2 gallons a week= trying to compensate for the high CYA of 90? Does that make sense?

    Looking at the table it looks like the FC should be 7 -10 not the 3-5 the test kit paperwork I have states or what I see on youtube?

    I have not moved in yet so I can't get there till tomorrow sometime to pull the tablets out of the pool until I can get a tf test kit. It appears this kit is a custom online kit only? I thought it might be something common like the Taylor kits but calls didn't turn up anything.

    It looks like the only solution is do delute the pool water by 50% or 11k gallons. That would take some time to refill from a hose bib on a house. Is there a risk of liner shrinkage while the pool is 1/2 empty? Is it worth it to do that about 5-6 weeks before closing the pool?

    I am very sorry I didn't check into the pool more instead of going by the owners procedure and advice. That must have been very costly to maintain every week? I don't know because I haven't purchased anything other then the Leslie test kit so far.

    So far this has been very discouraging to have with a new home. Add into that the central air was supposed to be repaired and I ended up doing it after closing.
    Gary
    New Haven, CT
    16 x 32 x 8 in-ground vinyl , sand filter
    22,000 gallons
    Leslie test kit, TF100 test kit

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Just placed the order for the tf100 kit.
    Gary
    New Haven, CT
    16 x 32 x 8 in-ground vinyl , sand filter
    22,000 gallons
    Leslie test kit, TF100 test kit

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Quote Originally Posted by gtr1999 View Post
    Just placed the order for the tf100 kit.
    you'll become an expert of you pool in no time now (+ shipment) I didn't know single thing about pools 1.5 yrs ago, the kit brings science into the process.
    44k plaster pool, Pentair 011018 pump, DE6020 filter, LED lights, K2006 test kit

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Congrats on the testkit. Hope it will arrive soon!

    We recommend waiting until the pool water is consistently below 60 degrees to close the pool. That gives you plenty of time to fix the pool now and open balanced and ready to go in the spring. I suggest you go for it this year!

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Thank you to all that replied. I have learned more here then from all the people I work with who all had their own ideas. Interestingly few check beyond the FC and PH. No one I asked locally, outside of the pool store, knew about CYA level. That was an eye opener once I understood how it works, or I should say how I think it works since it's new to me as well. My plan right now is to get there tonight, pull the tablets out, and add a gallon of bleach. I will test it with my kit to compare before and after if I can, I won't have the new kit till next week.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MarianParoo View Post
    Congrats on the testkit. Hope it will arrive soon!

    We recommend waiting until the pool water is consistently below 60 degrees to close the pool. That gives you plenty of time to fix the pool now and open balanced and ready to go in the spring. I suggest you go for it this year!
    Closing will be another new deal for me. There is a cover and water "balloons" to hold it down. That will probably be a new thread in Sept.
    Gary
    New Haven, CT
    16 x 32 x 8 in-ground vinyl , sand filter
    22,000 gallons
    Leslie test kit, TF100 test kit

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Checked the pool after 2 days, green and cloudy, algae on the liner. Removed the tablets and setup the robot vaccum to clean the bottom. Brushed down the walls. Added 2-21/4 gallons of 8.25% bleach last night and let the filter run. Today still pretty green and the liner forming algae again. The FC was up over the 5ppm scale on the test kit, still waiting on the tf100 to come in. PH 7.8 TA 100. Used some PH drop that was here and let run. Checked again several hours later. The FC still over scale, ph back down to 7.5, TA now 90. Added the next batch of bleach but saw the algae coming back.

    Not sure what else I can do until I get the Tf100 in?
    Gary
    New Haven, CT
    16 x 32 x 8 in-ground vinyl , sand filter
    22,000 gallons
    Leslie test kit, TF100 test kit

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Brush and keep adding chlorine. It's about all you can do besides familiarize yourself with PoolMath. This tutorial will help pass the time:
    Pool School - PoolMath

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Hi! You will be so glad you found TFP in the end. Right now it is hard because you are not there every day.

    The best thing you can do is add chlorine everyday to keep it from getting any worse. You will not clear it as it takes the test kit to clear it but you can keep it from getting any worse. Brush and add chlorine for now.

    we got ya!

    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: New guy with a lot of questions

    Well I got the test kit in and yes it sure looks more complete then the kit I have. Now I have to get back there and do the tests and report back, maybe tomorrow evening I can get there.
    Gary
    New Haven, CT
    16 x 32 x 8 in-ground vinyl , sand filter
    22,000 gallons
    Leslie test kit, TF100 test kit

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