I must retract some of my previous posts concerning Acid Magic. While it did work great and matched up with Pool Math expectations, I have since learned that the buffers are phosphate based. While I know phosphates should not be a big issue in a properly maintained pool, I do not want to add any if I can help it. I will be switching to straight MA.
Muriatic acid scares me
- Thread starter markuszoom5
- Start date
I buy this at Home Depot. Not sure of the strength but it is Muratic
- May 23, 2015
- 24,403
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I buy this at Home Depot. Not sure of the strength but it is MuraticAcid.
That's ~15% MA which is about half the strength you can get at pool stores or in the concrete section at HD. It typically runs close in price to full strength (31.45%) so you are paying more money for less acid. The only advantage of that stuff is that 15% doesn't fume much.
Just make sure if you use it that Pool Math is set to the right concentration or ensue your pH adjustments will be off.
If pool math tells me to add 7 ounces of 31% can I add 14 of the 15% and get the same effect? I have two gallons of this left. Thanks.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,403
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I believe PoolMath lets you select the concentration of MA but, yes, you can just double it.
wpbucher
LifeTime Supporter
I get my MA at HD. They have some MA in the store. The stuff I get is kept outside with masonry stuff (sand, block, etc.). You have to buy two gallons at a time.
I agree completely.
I wear goggles and gloves when I use muriatic acid. I place the bottle on the ground adjacent to the pool surface and slowly pour it out near the jet.
But I still feel unsafe. The first time I opened the bottle I got a blast of fumes than nearly overwhelmed me.
Now I keep my head low and away from the opening. But the next time a small breeze that I was unaware of blew the fumes towards me.
Clearly breathing the fumes are toxic. But my greater concern is that if any kind of accident occurs the consequences could be severe. For example, what if the bottle was punctured by accident and it leaked all over my garage floor? What if I accidentally knocked the bottle over because something distracted me?
From now on I will be buying some form of dry acid. I think that is much safer.
I wear goggles and gloves when I use muriatic acid. I place the bottle on the ground adjacent to the pool surface and slowly pour it out near the jet.
But I still feel unsafe. The first time I opened the bottle I got a blast of fumes than nearly overwhelmed me.
Now I keep my head low and away from the opening. But the next time a small breeze that I was unaware of blew the fumes towards me.
Clearly breathing the fumes are toxic. But my greater concern is that if any kind of accident occurs the consequences could be severe. For example, what if the bottle was punctured by accident and it leaked all over my garage floor? What if I accidentally knocked the bottle over because something distracted me?
From now on I will be buying some form of dry acid. I think that is much safer.
I have several containers of dry acid. It's definitely less volatile / stressful to work with, but I have to force myself to use it. I have a fairly fine-tuned method of "feeling" how much MA I need to pour at any given time. It's quick and easy. The dry acid is a pain. One of the containers must be old and it's all clumped up. I have to measure using poolmath, get a bucket and pre-dissolve. The first time I did it, I used a white plastic bucket and didn't see that not all of the granules had dissolved until I poured it into the pool. Then I had to brush like crazy to keep it from settling on the bottom.
I'm not a fan. When my current supply of dry acid is depleted, I won't buy more.
I'm not a fan. When my current supply of dry acid is depleted, I won't buy more.
The problem with dry acid is that it also leaves sulphites in the water which in some situations can be a problem to plaster finishes.
I've been using muriatic acid with a 31.45% concentration (from Leslies) lately since it is the most economical. Previously I used a type with 14.5% concentration, from my local hardware store and Home Depot, which was more costly when taking the strength into account.
I find that the stronger version produces much more fumes. I pour it in a glass measuring cup and walk around the pool slowly dribbling it out as I walk. I try to avoid being downwind of the cup. I will take a deep breath and hold it for a while as I walk. When I need to take another breath, I stop and carefully take a small sniff to make sure I don't have a cloud of fumes near my face, before I take another deep breath. This works for me, and I don't have a problem doing this.
I pour from the bottle into my measuring cup (while holding my breath), while I am near the pool, and then dip the bottom of the bottle in the pool before setting it back on the patio. Then I walk around the pool, dribbling it so there is not much in any one place. I was nervous about pouring all of it in one place in front of the return jet. I also avoid pouring acid over any of the shallow places such as swim steps and sitting ledges, since it is heavier than water and it sinks.
I think that when I was using the weaker muriatic acid previously, it had much less tendency to produce fumes, and I rarely detected it when I breathed through my nose. I don't know if that is my imagination, but if true, it might mean that the weaker version is more convenient and safer to use, even though it is less cost effective.
I find that the stronger version produces much more fumes. I pour it in a glass measuring cup and walk around the pool slowly dribbling it out as I walk. I try to avoid being downwind of the cup. I will take a deep breath and hold it for a while as I walk. When I need to take another breath, I stop and carefully take a small sniff to make sure I don't have a cloud of fumes near my face, before I take another deep breath. This works for me, and I don't have a problem doing this.
I pour from the bottle into my measuring cup (while holding my breath), while I am near the pool, and then dip the bottom of the bottle in the pool before setting it back on the patio. Then I walk around the pool, dribbling it so there is not much in any one place. I was nervous about pouring all of it in one place in front of the return jet. I also avoid pouring acid over any of the shallow places such as swim steps and sitting ledges, since it is heavier than water and it sinks.
I think that when I was using the weaker muriatic acid previously, it had much less tendency to produce fumes, and I rarely detected it when I breathed through my nose. I don't know if that is my imagination, but if true, it might mean that the weaker version is more convenient and safer to use, even though it is less cost effective.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,403
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I'm going to jump in here before this thread starts getting out of hand. While muriatic acid at 20 Baume concentration (31.45%) does produce fumes that are noxious the hazard level is quite low to non-existent in an outdoor setting. Despite what has been written in this thread, MA vapors are NOT TOXIC nor are they dangerous in an outdoor pool setting. Let me put some numbers to this -
The odor threshold limit for MA vapors is 5ppm or 7.45 mg per cubic meter of air. This is the threshold at which the average human nose will detect the odors.
The acute inhalation toxicity limit for a 1 hour exposure (rat studies) is 3124 mg/L or 3124 ppm or 4,655 mg/m^3 of air. In other words, you would have to be in an enclosed space for an hour with acid vapor at a concentration of 625 times what you would smell. There is no way you can approach this in an outdoor setting.
The AIHA (American Industrial Hygiene Association) defines the following levels for MA exposure in a workplace environment -
So, based on the ERPG-2 classification, you would have to be in a confined space with MA vapors at a concentration of 4 times the odor threshold for over an hour before you would become so overwhelmed with the odor that you could not help yourself.
With that said, please let's keep this thread at a reasonable level of discourse. MA certainly has hazards associated with it and should, like any pool chemical, be handled carefully. It should be stored properly (not in a garage) and it should be poured into a pool in the quickest an easiest fashion possible. Pouring MA directly from the bottle into the return water stream at the deepest end of the pool is the safest and most effective way of handling MA. It reduces the amount of vapors produced when compared to using secondary measuring containers and will completely disperse before it ever hits the bottom of the pool. Brushing the pool walls after adding chemicals is always a good idea because it helps to mix the water and distribute them.
Here is the MSDS for MA - http://pooloperationmanagement.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/MURIATIC-ACID.pdf
The odor threshold limit for MA vapors is 5ppm or 7.45 mg per cubic meter of air. This is the threshold at which the average human nose will detect the odors.
The acute inhalation toxicity limit for a 1 hour exposure (rat studies) is 3124 mg/L or 3124 ppm or 4,655 mg/m^3 of air. In other words, you would have to be in an enclosed space for an hour with acid vapor at a concentration of 625 times what you would smell. There is no way you can approach this in an outdoor setting.
The AIHA (American Industrial Hygiene Association) defines the following levels for MA exposure in a workplace environment -
- ERPG – 1 (The maximum airborne concentration below which it is believed nearly all individuals could be exposed for up to one hour without experiencing other than mild transient adverse health effects or perceiving a clearly defined objectionable odor.): 3 ppm
- ERPG – 2 (The maximum airborne concentration below which it is believed nearly all individuals could be exposed for up to one hour without experiencing or developing irreversible or other serious health effects or symptoms that could impair an individual’s ability to take protective action.): 20ppm
- ERPG – 3 (The maximum airborne concentration below which it is believed nearly all individuals could be exposed for up to one hour without experiencing or developing life-threatening health effects.): 150 ppm
So, based on the ERPG-2 classification, you would have to be in a confined space with MA vapors at a concentration of 4 times the odor threshold for over an hour before you would become so overwhelmed with the odor that you could not help yourself.
With that said, please let's keep this thread at a reasonable level of discourse. MA certainly has hazards associated with it and should, like any pool chemical, be handled carefully. It should be stored properly (not in a garage) and it should be poured into a pool in the quickest an easiest fashion possible. Pouring MA directly from the bottle into the return water stream at the deepest end of the pool is the safest and most effective way of handling MA. It reduces the amount of vapors produced when compared to using secondary measuring containers and will completely disperse before it ever hits the bottom of the pool. Brushing the pool walls after adding chemicals is always a good idea because it helps to mix the water and distribute them.
Here is the MSDS for MA - http://pooloperationmanagement.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/MURIATIC-ACID.pdf
pinguy
0
I really should get a darwin award for pool chemicals. I've spilled huge amounts of high concentration chlorine on myself, and MA a few times including once in the eye. Honestly it's not that bad. Don't get me wrong, you should be WAY MORE careful than I am, but if any major spill happens, you should be able to just jump in the pool to avoid any injuries. Avoid tight cloths and just be super careful. The fumes from MA never bothered me either, always makes me hungry for fish and chips w/malt vinegar.
The biggest danger with pool chemicals is if they combine in concentrated form. That's bad news bears.
The biggest danger with pool chemicals is if they combine in concentrated form. That's bad news bears.
Yes, please keep this thread at least one notch below hysteria. 
Yes, MA fumes are pungent. But, so are lots of other things that won't kill you instantly. Sauerkraut, feet, onions, garlic, cat pee, vinegar all come to mind. Truly hazardous and toxic chemicals that will cause instant death are not available for sale to the general public.
Step 1 read the label
Step 2 read the MSDS
Step 3 be careful
Literally millions of people handle muriatic acid on a regular basis and live to tell about it.
Yes, MA fumes are pungent. But, so are lots of other things that won't kill you instantly. Sauerkraut, feet, onions, garlic, cat pee, vinegar all come to mind. Truly hazardous and toxic chemicals that will cause instant death are not available for sale to the general public. Step 1 read the label
Step 2 read the MSDS
Step 3 be careful
Literally millions of people handle muriatic acid on a regular basis and live to tell about it.
I'll add a little anecdote, although it's not about MA, but chemicals in general.
In the bad old days, I would shock my pool by adding dry shock into a Home Depot bucket full of water and premixing it before dumping it in the pool. One day I had a particularly bad algae bloom, so I bought a package of dry algaecide. I don't know what was in it, to be honest. I figured 'Why not kill two birds with one stone' and put the algaecide and the shock into the dry bucket. Once I started pouring water in, it began to foam and fume and bubble and get really scary. I backed away from it as it built up intensity and once I got a quick whiff of it I pushed everyone inside and closed the door. It was reacting so violently it actually boomed and shot a noxious ring of - something - right up into the eaves. Once it settled down there was a blanket of fumes across the shrubs in the backyard. Killed everything dead.
So - moral here is know what chemicals you're mixing and DO NOT ADD WATER TO CHEMICALS - ADD CHEMICALS TO WATER.
In the bad old days, I would shock my pool by adding dry shock into a Home Depot bucket full of water and premixing it before dumping it in the pool. One day I had a particularly bad algae bloom, so I bought a package of dry algaecide. I don't know what was in it, to be honest. I figured 'Why not kill two birds with one stone' and put the algaecide and the shock into the dry bucket. Once I started pouring water in, it began to foam and fume and bubble and get really scary. I backed away from it as it built up intensity and once I got a quick whiff of it I pushed everyone inside and closed the door. It was reacting so violently it actually boomed and shot a noxious ring of - something - right up into the eaves. Once it settled down there was a blanket of fumes across the shrubs in the backyard. Killed everything dead.
So - moral here is know what chemicals you're mixing and DO NOT ADD WATER TO CHEMICALS - ADD CHEMICALS TO WATER.
Did the explosion look like this?
Pool Chemical Explosion Accident Analysis and Investigation at chemaxx.com
The moral is never mix chemicals. Most likely, the mix was probably granular trichlor with calcium hypochlorite, which can be very dangerous.
Woof! Yep, something similar to that. Not quite as "bangy" though, just fumed faster and faster until it finally burst with a boom. Wish I'd gotten video of it, it was a very scorched-earth display.
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