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Thread: recommended pH?

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    recommended pH?

    Hi

    pool has a pH of about 7.2

    I see that on this site the recommended pH is 7-5-7.8 for a plaster or cement pool.

    I think that is a bit higher than recommendations i have seen elsewhere

    how much of a problem do i have?

    TA=130-150ppm

    I am currently using a combination of bleach and whatever my pool guy has in the chlorinator - some kind of puck.


    thanks
    32,500 gallon IG plaster
    cartridge filter
    TF-100

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    Re: recommended pH?

    7.2 is the low end of the range, most like it around 7.6. That puck is probably going to end up causing you some issues most likely with higher levels of cya that will then cause a need to have a very high chlorine level to keep algae and Organics dead
    Matt
    2016 Pool Build: 12k IG Blue Granite Pebblesheen, Travertine Coping & Pavers, Pentair IntelliFlo, Intellichlor, Easytouch, Clean & Clear 320, Heliocol Solar - TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: recommended pH?

    how much of a problem do i have?
    None. 7.2 is on the lower side of the range but anything in the range of 7.2 - 7.8 is acceptable.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: recommended pH?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgmoore7 View Post
    7.2 is the low end of the range, most like it around 7.6. That puck is probably going to end up causing you some issues most likely with higher levels of cya that will then cause a need to have a very high chlorine level to keep algae and Organics dead
    well, i do already have a CYA problem.., and i am remedying it by doing a water replacement...

    so i know i have to turn off the chlorinator

    my pool guy said that if i wanted to turn it off, i could put some kind of chlorine tab in either a floating basket, or the skimmer if i wanted to keep automatically chlorinating my pool.

    I am pretty sure that he was saying that either of those two methods would _not_ introduce anymore CYA into my pool.

    he said that the chlorine tablets for the skimmer/floater were "different" than the ones that go in the automatic chlorinator.., and that you can't put them in the chlorinator.

    i have been trying to find the tabs he is talking about.., but i can't

    is there a chlorine source for a skimmer/floater that doesn't add CYA, and which can not be used in a chlorinator?

    i realize this is OT.., but it was raised
    32,500 gallon IG plaster
    cartridge filter
    TF-100

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    Re: recommended pH?

    All tabs add something. There are 2 recommended sources of chlorine. Liquid chlorine aka bleach or salt water chlorine generator
    Matt
    2016 Pool Build: 12k IG Blue Granite Pebblesheen, Travertine Coping & Pavers, Pentair IntelliFlo, Intellichlor, Easytouch, Clean & Clear 320, Heliocol Solar - TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    SWG Run Time Calculator

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    Re: recommended pH?

    Your pool guy clearly lacks (as most do) basic water chemistry knowledge. The pucks he is putting into your inline chlorinator are trichlor pucks and that is stabilized chlorine (adds CYA). Any puck you put in a floater will also be composed of trichlor. It could either be high purity trichlor (99% trichlor) or some of those multi-component tablets that Clorox and others make (usually a mixture of trichlor, baking soda, borax and, in some cases, copper metal salts). We NEVER advocate putting tablets in the skimmer as that sends concentrated chlorine and low pH water directly into your pool equipment which is almost always bad to do.

    The fact is, if you want to stop raising your CYA, then you need to switch to liquid chlorine only and completely ditch the pucks. Solid forms of chlorine (trichlor, dichlor and cal-hypo) all add other chemicals to your water that you can't easily get rid of (stabilizer and calcium). Liquid chlorine (aka, bleach) only adds hypochlorite and a very small amount of salt.

    As for pH, the optimal value is whatever your pool likes to settle at within the range of 7.2-7.8. Your TA is quite high though and that causes pH rise so your water might never settle into a specific pH value. In my pool, I need to keep my TA below 60ppm and then my pool will hang at a pH of 7.7 for at least a week. I typically only have to add acid every 14 days or so. Some people, with an optimal TA value, can achieve complete pH stability for an entire season. Much of that depends on the pH and TA of your fill water as well as how much aeration your pool receives. So, in effect, there is no one-size-fits-all "optimal" pH....it all depends on your pool's specific water conditions. And, just so you know, most "pool guys" will tell you that you have to maintain your TA above 80ppm or else you'll damage your pool walls and equipment...that's total BS and just demonstrates their lack of knowledge when it comes to water chemistry and carbonate chemistry.

    Stick to the TFPC Method of pool care and your water will be great...then you can fire your pool guy and save yourself a thousand dollar or more per year.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: recommended pH?

    Quote Originally Posted by jgf310 View Post
    well, i do already have a CYA problem.., and i am remedying it by doing a water replacement...

    so i know i have to turn off the chlorinator

    my pool guy said that if i wanted to turn it off, i could put some kind of chlorine tab in either a floating basket, or the skimmer if i wanted to keep automatically chlorinating my pool.

    I am pretty sure that he was saying that either of those two methods would _not_ introduce anymore CYA into my pool.

    he said that the chlorine tablets for the skimmer/floater were "different" than the ones that go in the automatic chlorinator.., and that you can't put them in the chlorinator.

    i have been trying to find the tabs he is talking about.., but i can't

    is there a chlorine source for a skimmer/floater that doesn't add CYA, and which can not be used in a chlorinator?

    i realize this is OT.., but it was raised

    You can buy calcium hypochlorite tabs but you trade off raising CYA for potentially increased CH levels.
    Geebot
    Chicago, IL
    30K gal, InGround Plaster Finish, 3.5'-9.5', Maytronics S300 Cleaner

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    Re: recommended pH?

    Stick to the TFPC Method of pool care and your water will be great...then you can fire your pool guy and save yourself a thousand dollar or more per year.
    more like $4k/yr...

    everything is ridiculously expensive where i live
    32,500 gallon IG plaster
    cartridge filter
    TF-100

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: recommended pH?

    Quote Originally Posted by jgf310 View Post
    more like $4k/yr...

    everything is ridiculously expensive where i live
    Wow! I don't even come close to spending that much over multiple years!! I realize pool closings/openings are a pain but, for $4,000 you could buy all the specialized equipment they use to blow out lines and such and still have plenty of money left over to buy all the closing and opening chemicals you'd ever need.

    $4,000 can buy you an entire Pentair automation system with salt-water chlorine generator and valve actuators.

    $4,000 can buy you a top-of-line gas heater or electric heat pump.

    $4,000 could buy you the most expensive pool robot .... Twice!

    That's a lot of money.....
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: recommended pH?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Wow! I don't even come close to spending that much over multiple years!! I realize pool closings/openings are a pain but, for $4,000 you could buy all the specialized equipment they use to blow out lines and such and still have plenty of money left over to buy all the closing and opening chemicals you'd ever need.

    $4,000 can buy you an entire Pentair automation system with salt-water chlorine generator and valve actuators.

    $4,000 can buy you a top-of-line gas heater or electric heat pump.

    $4,000 could buy you the most expensive pool robot .... Twice!

    That's a lot of money.....
    Agreed, that is alot of money to spend on someone that is going to cause a problem for you using those pucks.
    Matt
    2016 Pool Build: 12k IG Blue Granite Pebblesheen, Travertine Coping & Pavers, Pentair IntelliFlo, Intellichlor, Easytouch, Clean & Clear 320, Heliocol Solar - TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    SWG Run Time Calculator

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    Re: recommended pH?

    i was clueless about pools.., bought the house about 11-12 years ago.., inherited the pool guy from the previous owner..

    i just started reading this forum and learning about pools 2 weeks ago

    to be fair about his charges - any kind of service in my area costs at least twice what it costs anywhere else

    but still i think it is expensive.

    anyway - my main motivation for learning about the pool, and taking charge.., is _not_ the cost - it's that even though i have been spending ~$4k/yr for 12 years.., the water quality still sucks!

    i have green/yellow algae every day if i don't scrub.., black algae appearing.., pretty bad "chlorine" smell.., and water that isn't as clear as i would like.

    i have another thread about CYA - i am replacing the water.., and using bleach to maintain chlorine.., i will turn off the chlorinator.., and i am pretty sure that by next season i will get a SWG unit.., and fire the pool guy.

    i will just get someone to open and close the pool.
    32,500 gallon IG plaster
    cartridge filter
    TF-100

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: recommended pH?

    Welcome to TFP!!

    Yes, depending on where you live in CT, things can get very expensive. I used to drive the Merrit Parkway everyday for a year and half after getting out of grad school (lived in NY, worked in CT). I remember driving through the "fancy" areas of Greenwich and Stamford....some very pricey real estate there. And, to be fair to your pool guy, most of the landscaping/pool trades workers in the northeast have to make all their money between spring and fall. So they charge a lot more for services there.

    Well, enjoy the forum. With a little dedication and effort, your pool will be a thousand times better than what it is now and you certainly won't be spending anywhere near $4,000 per year to keep it that way.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: recommended pH?

    Even if you get somone just to open and close the pool - watch what they do. Don't let them remove the cover, hook up the equipment, clean the pool, and then dump in a couple of pounds of "shock".

    That shock powder is the same as tablets / pucks - just ground up. Any sort of chlorine that is in solid form is going to contain CYA, it's just the nature of the chemistry. If you want to hire sombody to open or close your pool, specifiy that you want them to use liquid chlorine when they do so. Once you get your CYA where you need it, there is very little that changes it - as you found out, really only a water change. If your pool service keeps adding CYA, even only at opening and closing, it will continue to rise over a number of seasons - nowhere near as quickliy as using pucks on a regular basis, but it will still go up.

    I use pucks in a floater once a year, when we go on a long vacation and nobody is watching the house (sometimes we have a person stay with the dog and she takes care of the pool - I tell her to add a quart of bleach a day - that works for a week) but if nobody is here, I will raise the CL high with bleach, and then put ONE puck in a floater, just to keep some residual chlorine in the water. I don't even like doing that, as it is adding CYA, but it is better than comming home to a swamp.

    So, long story short, once you get your CYA where you need it, make sure nobody goes adding more in the form of non-liquid chlorine (you could use chlorine gas as well if you want to get really crazy - no CYA in that either)

    -dave
    27' Round ABG (17,000 gal) - +/- 11 hours of full sun per day
    Hard plumbed Hayward Perflex EC-40 DE filter w/ 1 HP pump (Got a new one June 2015)
    Filered 4 hours per day (on a timer)
    Pentair Aqualuminator - now working - and now dead once again, this time for good.
    Zodiac Wahoo

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