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Thread: Dep47

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    Dep47

    I have and 18' above ground pool with a hayard 18"sand filter 1/ 1/2 HP pump and automatic clorinator. System works fine except I continue to have very fine dust that accumulates when the filter runs .

    I have tried back washing several times, and run the pool for several days with a slime bag in place. The dust is so fine that if I get into the pool with out the filter running and just push it around with my foot it disapearrs and will not come back until I run the filter. I tried running the filter for a couple of days with a slime bag on the out let, and the pool stayed clear all during that time no dust on the bottom. I then back washed the filter rinsed the lines and ran the filter through the slime bag for several hours. As soon as the filter ran again in the morning with the eye ball in place the dust was back. It almost seems more like a chemicial reatction of some sort.

    The pool will stand clear after I stir the dust up for 12 hours some time and nothing percipitates out. Start the filter and it is back. I was sure it was just to fine for the sand filter, that is why I installed the slime bag. I tried adding sme DE type filter material to the sand filter, no effect. Again the filter ran for several days with the slime bag installed and no dust, as soon as I removed it and ran the filter the dust was back, need help.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Dep47

    Hello and welcome to TFP! Interesting situation you have there. It might help us to see a full set of water test results. Do you have your own TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C test kit to post some numbers for us?
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: Dep47

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    Hello and welcome to TFP! Interesting situation you have there. It might help us to see a full set of water test results. Do you have your own TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C test kit to post some numbers for us?
    No I have a standard test kit, and the chlorine level and the PH are what I can check. Both are slightly above the mid range. I have tried all kinds of things to get this dust to stay out of the pool. I can hook a slime bag to the return fitting and vacume the pool and all is good no dust forming on the bottom. It will stay that way through severl runs of the filter. As soon as I remove the bag and run the pool with the eye ball retun in place the sediment appears quickly in the pool. If I shout off the filter and stir up the reidue in the bottom it will stay clean until the pump starts again and then the setiment is back. The slime bag has run on the system for several days and nothing seems to appear in the bag. I havevacumend with the bag, back washed with it in place and nothing forms in the pool with the bag in place but nothing seems to be in the bag or the bottom of the pool. Remove the bag and installl the eyeball fitting and the residyue returns in the bottom of the pool.

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Dep47

    I know you get a fair amount of wind in your area, so it's hard to tell if there's something blowing-in to cause those issues or if it's a chemistry issue. Unfortunately those basic FC/pH test kits don't help much. It will be tough to give you a good recommendation without water results from a TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C.

    In the meantime, you might consider trying first a good sand deep clean and noted on the Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter page to see if that helps at all. It won't fix a chemistry issue, but if the stuff settling is simply local stuff blowing-in, it may help. After that you can try some DE as seen on the Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter.

    But definitely try to get one of the recommended test kits. I highly recommend the TF-100.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Dep47

    Quote Originally Posted by DEP47 View Post
    ... I can hook a slime bag to the return fitting and vacume the pool and all is good no dust forming on the bottom. It will stay that way through severl runs of the filter. As soon as I remove the bag and run the pool with the eye ball retun in place the sediment appears quickly in the pool. If I shout off the filter and stir up the reidue in the bottom it will stay clean until the pump starts again and then the setiment is back. The slime bag has run on the system for several days and nothing seems to appear in the bag. I havevacumend with the bag, back washed with it in place and nothing forms in the pool with the bag in place but nothing seems to be in the bag or the bottom of the pool. Remove the bag and installl the eyeball fitting and the residyue returns in the bottom of the pool.
    Ok, this seems bizarre. To paraphrase and summarize: with bag in place, no sediment in pool or in bag; with eyeball in place, sediment in pool.

    A logical but improbable conclusion is that the eyeball is deteriorating. I assume this is not the case. A question to which i assume the answer is no: Is there any filter pressure difference/noticeable return jet water flow rate difference with the bag on vs bag off?

    I am not clear on what you are saying in the sentence beginning "If i shut off the filter....." Is water flowing in recirc mode or is the pump off? What happens to the residue when you stir it up? does it dissolve or are you spreading it around so you cant see it? Not sure what you mean here.

    So the solution seems to be to leave the bag in place. I know this seems silly and doesnt solve the riddle; however, perhaps if you leave the bag in place for a longer period, you will notice something trapped in it.

    Good luck, and please post the answer if you find out.
    30000 gal inground vinyl liner;sand filter w/glass media, nuvo uv, TF-100 test kit; 25 years on Baquacil, converted to TFP chlorine in 2016

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    Re: Dep47

    Quote Originally Posted by pookiesunshine View Post
    Ok, this seems bizarre. To paraphrase and summarize: with bag in place, no sediment in pool or in bag; with eyeball in place, sediment in pool.

    A logical but improbable conclusion is that the eyeball is deteriorating. I assume this is not the case. A question to which i assume the answer is no: Is there any filter pressure difference/noticeable return jet water flow rate difference with the bag on vs bag off?

    I am not clear on what you are saying in the sentence beginning "If i shut off the filter....." Is water flowing in recirc mode or is the pump off? What happens to the residue when you stir it up? does it dissolve or are you spreading it around so you cant see it? Not sure what you mean here.

    So the solution seems to be to leave the bag in place. I know this seems silly and doesn't solve the riddle; however, perhaps if you leave the bag in place for a longer period, you will notice something trapped in it.

    Good luck, and please post the answer if you find out.
    Shut off the filter means shut off the pump. The eye ball fitting is not deteriorating. The bag is installed in place of the eye ball fitting which in my case has a 3/4" orifice. The installation of the bag with and 1 1/2" straight fitting in place of the eye ball fitting drops the pressure in the system. This is what I have tried and what I have found. I removed the eyeball fitting and let the water just return to the pool with no restriction, result no sediment in the pool. I then replaced the eyeball with and 1 1/2 elbow to circulate the water in the pool no sediment forming in the pool. From this I have determined that adding the back pressure of the eyeball fitting is causing the sediment problem. I have run the system through its regular cycle without the eyeball fitting and no sediment has returned to the pool Still does not answer my question as to what is causing this, but I have been able to solve the problem at least for now. Water is sparkling and the bottom is clean.

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    Re: Dep47

    Quote Originally Posted by DEP47 View Post
    Shut off the filter means shut off the pump. The eye ball fitting is not deteriorating. The bag is installed in place of the eye ball fitting which in my case has a 3/4" orifice. The installation of the bag with and 1 1/2" straight fitting in place of the eye ball fitting drops the pressure in the system. This is what I have tried and what I have found. I removed the eyeball fitting and let the water just return to the pool with no restriction, result no sediment in the pool. I then replaced the eyeball with and 1 1/2 elbow to circulate the water in the pool no sediment forming in the pool. From this I have determined that adding the back pressure of the eyeball fitting is causing the sediment problem. I have run the system through its regular cycle without the eyeball fitting and no sediment has returned to the pool Still does not answer my question as to what is causing this, but I have been able to solve the problem at least for now. Water is sparkling and the bottom is clean.
    The eyeball also increases the velocity of the water, at least near the opening but not sure how much farther back upstream. Is it possible there may be some sediment in this line that is getting picked up by the higher velocity with the eyeball in place? I see you have AGP so unlikely that you have a crack in the line that would be picking up dirt if the return line was underground. Can you disconnect the return line from the filter and backflush it to remove any sediment in the line? This could be tricky depending on your plumbing. I have no idea how long this line might be. maybe a picture of your setup would help.
    30000 gal inground vinyl liner;sand filter w/glass media, nuvo uv, TF-100 test kit; 25 years on Baquacil, converted to TFP chlorine in 2016

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    Re: Dep47

    Quote Originally Posted by pookiesunshine View Post
    The eyeball also increases the velocity of the water, at least near the opening but not sure how much farther back upstream. Is it possible there may be some sediment in this line that is getting picked up by the higher velocity with the eyeball in place? I see you have AGP so unlikely that you have a crack in the line that would be picking up dirt if the return line was underground. Can you disconnect the return line from the filter and back flush it to remove any sediment in the line? This could be tricky depending on your plumbing. I have no idea how long this line might be. maybe a picture of your setup would help.
    I have changed the inlet line since this problem showed up in fact I believe this problem was with me since I started the pool up a couple of months ago. I did the normal vacuum or stir the sediment up and it went away only to have it return . Thus I replaced the inlet eyeball with the 1 1/2 fitting and hooked up the slime bag thinking the sand filter did not filter fine enough. No sediment with the bag installed so I though I had it. Reinstalled the eyeball and the sediment was back. The eyeball does increase the velocity at the orifice, but not up stream, in fact the velocity would decrease with more back pressure on the pump. been running two days with out the eyeball fitting and no sediment. Has something to do with the velocity increase at the eyeball or additional back pressure on the line. I did put a polymer based liquid clarify-er in the pool at start up to clear the water. Did the job the pool was clear over night with the sediment in the bottom. Problem has been with me ever since. Thanks for you response

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    Re: Dep47

    Quote Originally Posted by DEP47 View Post
    ... I did put a polymer based liquid clarify-er in the pool at start up to clear the water. Did the job the pool was clear over night with the sediment in the bottom. Problem has been with me ever since....
    And there is your problem. The polymer is still present and has increased contact with small particles at the eyeball opening velocity. the agglomerated particles then fall out as sediment.

    i have no idea, just made that up. Good luck!
    30000 gal inground vinyl liner;sand filter w/glass media, nuvo uv, TF-100 test kit; 25 years on Baquacil, converted to TFP chlorine in 2016

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    Re: Dep47

    Not yet mentioned in this thread is test results. EVERYTHING we teach begins and ends with complete test results so we are all just guessing.

    So. Why do you think it is dust? 90% of the pool water problems are because of lack of adequate chlorine. Over and over, year after year it is inadequate chlorine.

    What I think you are seeing is dead algae laying on your pool floor and you can't get rid of it because your chlorine is not high enough to kill it all.

    But what about the pump on vs pump off thing. Easy enough. Pump off, that dead algae is so thin you cannot see it but pump on, the flow of water across the pool floor starts to collect the dead algae in EVERY low spot....even thousandths of an inch. Now, since it collects, it becomes visible.

    I have been wrong before and I will be again, but without test results (and a SLAM of your pool most surely) we're just guessing anyway.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Dep47

    Quote Originally Posted by DEP47 View Post
    I have changed the inlet line since this problem showed up in fact I believe this problem was with me since I started the pool up a couple of months ago. I did the normal vacuum or stir the sediment up and it went away only to have it return . Thus I replaced the inlet eyeball with the 1 1/2 fitting and hooked up the slime bag thinking the sand filter did not filter fine enough. No sediment with the bag installed so I though I had it. Reinstalled the eyeball and the sediment was back. The eyeball does increase the velocity at the orifice, but not up stream, in fact the velocity would decrease with more back pressure on the pump. been running two days with out the eyeball fitting and no sediment. Has something to do with the velocity increase at the eyeball or additional back pressure on the line. I did put a polymer based liquid clarify-er in the pool at start up to clear the water. Did the job the pool was clear over night with the sediment in the bottom. Problem has been with me ever since. Thanks for you response
    I usually approach fuzzy problems by checking and rechecking basics. On this site it means: put pool details, equipment model names/numbers in your signature, use recommended test kit so we could compare apples to apples, post pictures of the problem. Then you most likely will get the most expert advice on this planet. It's hard enough to analyze something remotely and it is simply impossible doing it based on unreliable data. Unless someone experienced exactly the same problem recently you might not get more useful response.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pookiesunshine View Post
    And there is your problem. The polymer is still present and has increased contact with small particles at the eyeball opening velocity. the agglomerated particles then fall out as sediment.

    i have no idea, just made that up. Good luck!
    sounds plausible to me ...
    44k plaster pool, Pentair 011018 pump, DE6020 filter, LED lights, K2006 test kit

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    Re: Dep47

    Quote Originally Posted by max2k View Post
    I usually approach fuzzy problems by checking and rechecking basics. On this site it means: put pool details, equipment model names/numbers in your signature, use recommended test kit so we could compare apples to apples, post pictures of the problem. Then you most likely will get the most expert advice on this planet. It's hard enough to analyze something remotely and it is simply impossible doing it based on unreliable data. Unless someone experienced exactly the same problem recently you might not get more useful response.
    Thanks for the response- - - Updated - - -



    sounds plausible to me ...
    Thanks for the response, and the sediment in the bottom of the pool that only shows up when the 3/4" eye ball fitting is in place, could be algae and could be dust of course, but hard for me to believe that if it is on the bottom and then vacuumed up and a slime bag is used during the vacuuming and back wash and rinse is done. All is well after this and the pool will is clear of any sediment until the filter is restarted again with the 3/4" eyeball fitting installed sediment immediately starts to return. If I leave the eyeball fitting out of the return no sediment shows up. I guess your right no one else is experiencing this so I will move on, and by the way the data I provided is reliable and the explanation provided is accurate.

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