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Thread: Yet another swg problem

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    smeestu's Avatar
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    Yet another swg problem

    Hi all since i have adopted the trouble free pool way of doing things i have had a nice clean balanced trouble free pool for the last 2 years plus . That is until a few days ago. i bought a Emaux brand 45gr/ph SWG 15 months ago which after a bit of a learning curve and the purchase of a good quality electronic salt pen has run fine until now it shows 2 red light which looking at the manual means needs servicing sending to manufacturer .The recommended salt levels are 4000 which i maintain normally around 4200 at the first instance of the 2 red lights the salt was 4020 i added another bag of salt which has taken it to 4240.When i installed it i added a stabilized electricity feed to it when it was fitted into the pump room and additional fan as well because it does get hot here in Thailand . I have kept a close eye on all pool chemistry and kept it within the guidelines . I contacted the manufacture and their reply was that the cell should last 1 -2 years and needs replacing now if the 2 lights are on . Since then i have cleaned the cell with HCL there was a very small amount of calcium buildup on it which has made no difference i have checked the electrical feed to it it pulls about 7amp@230v with the pump running as well which is around what it should be (i have a very basic understanding of electrics) . As it starts there are bubbles and they continue even after the 2 red lights come on so im guessing that it is still making some chlorine in the email back from the manufacturer they said that if performance drops below 80% that the lights come on . So has anyone got any ideas if 15 months is really the life expectancy of the cell then obviously i need to change to another brand of SWG which i am limited with here in Thailand
    Home built Concrete pool tiled 100% 6M X 12M 1.1-1.6 m deep 93,000 litres 24,500 US gallons
    Emaux SB15 1.5hp pump ,Emaux v700B Sand Filter with Zealbrite
    Emaux SSC50-T 45g/hr swg ,Jacuzzi chlorine Tablet Feeder

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    Re: Yet another swg problem

    Keep an eye on the chlorine level in the pool and dose with bleach if needed. You might have to increase the % output and/or run time to get the SWG making enough chlorine each day.

    I'm not sure which guidelines you are following, post your test results so we can see them.

    Cells do fail and it sounds like yours is wearing out. There is no set amount of time a cell will actually last, you just hope that it fails while under warranty or you get an extra year or two out of the cell. I just had a cell fail after one year of use and it was replaced because it has a three year warranty.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    smeestu's Avatar
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    Re: Yet another swg problem

    thanks for the info was only a 1 year warranty on the unit so i guess im done now im in the situation that do i buy another cell or another whole unit as i dont really want to replace the cell every 15 months or so they are over $400 each here in Thailand maybe better to try a different brand even if i have to do a personal import
    Home built Concrete pool tiled 100% 6M X 12M 1.1-1.6 m deep 93,000 litres 24,500 US gallons
    Emaux SB15 1.5hp pump ,Emaux v700B Sand Filter with Zealbrite
    Emaux SSC50-T 45g/hr swg ,Jacuzzi chlorine Tablet Feeder

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    Divin Dave's Avatar
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    Re: Yet another swg problem

    The lifespan of the salt cell largely depends on the size of the cell, and the ouput % which it is operated.

    I dont know anything about your particular make of swg... so I will just comment on how we determine it in the US.

    We typically recommend the cell size be 1.5x to 3x the size of the pool. The cells here are rated in x000 gallons
    The reason we recommend using larger cell sizes, is because you can operate them at lower output % for longer amount of time.

    For Example, all things being hypothetically equal, imagine a 20K cell needs to run at 100% ouput to keep the pool clean...

    a 40K gallon cell used on 20K gallon pool will last 2x longer than a 20K cell.
    With a 40K cell the output in this example the ouput would be 50% to generate teh same amount of chlorine. So, its only required to run 50% as long, and so 2x the lifespan.

    All SWGs pretty much work the same and the same rule above would apply to yours also. So, depending on the rating of your salt cell used on your 93000L pool, 1.5 years might be short or it might be right depending on the outuput limitations of the salt cell.

    I notice you mention the output capacity is 45g/hr, but I dont know how to relate that output to x-gallons of water and if your cell is too small or not.

    Maybe someone else with more math skills than I have will come along and comment further...
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
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    Re: Yet another swg problem

    A 45gm/hr cell in a 93,000L pool produces 0.48ppm FC per hour. It's the equivalent of a 2.4lbs/day cell. So it's adequately sized since a clean pool would roughly consume 2-4ppm/day and this cell would only need, at most, 8-10 hours of run time to make up for the loss.

    Question - how long and at what output did you normally run your cell for? What other chemicals do you use in your pool?
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Yet another swg problem

    hi thanks for all the imput i normally run it for a total of 6 hours a day under normal use 2 hours in the morning 2 hours midday and 2 hours early evening i find it helps splitting the time to skim the pool a bit and turn the water over at these times i run it 100% to match my pump run times . Around songkran time (april) when its really hot pool temp can reach 90F plus and a heavy bather load i can run it for 12 hours straight and sometimes even over night but this is not a regular thing maybe max of 10 times in a year as in these times i top up the FC with liquid chlorine if it drops to much .I bought the chlorinator because the nearest liquid chlorine supply is 80 miles away, i only have a regular sized car and storing it for long periods of time isnt practical in this heat ,ive been happy with it up to now but im disappointed that it has on lasted this long . I have just checked this morning and now it will not start at all just reads 888 on the % display so i guess the whole thing is done now
    Home built Concrete pool tiled 100% 6M X 12M 1.1-1.6 m deep 93,000 litres 24,500 US gallons
    Emaux SB15 1.5hp pump ,Emaux v700B Sand Filter with Zealbrite
    Emaux SSC50-T 45g/hr swg ,Jacuzzi chlorine Tablet Feeder

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    Re: Yet another swg problem

    part 2 of my answer is the only other chemicals i use are HCL when needed which seems to be about every 3-4 months my PH hits 7.8 so i drop it back down with 2l of acid to 7,5-7.6 the pool generally stays nice and balanced .I also add some Trichlor now and again just to give the FC a little boost after heavy bathing it also helps to keep my CYA in the right sort of area (not easy to get CYA out here ) .The TA stays around 100 all the time and the CH is with in guidelines last test was 325 . Im lucky that my fill water (from a 180ft deep well is pretty near what it needs to be . I installed a UPS on the chlorinator to cover and voltage fluctuation that it might of got and it also has a 12 inch fan that blows on it when its running in the pump room ive done everything to help its life span or so i thought .
    Home built Concrete pool tiled 100% 6M X 12M 1.1-1.6 m deep 93,000 litres 24,500 US gallons
    Emaux SB15 1.5hp pump ,Emaux v700B Sand Filter with Zealbrite
    Emaux SSC50-T 45g/hr swg ,Jacuzzi chlorine Tablet Feeder

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    Re: Yet another swg problem

    From what you report, it seems that you've gotten ~ 2,500 to 3,000 hours of runtime out of the chlorinator. In the US, most chlorinators are sold with the expectation that they will get ~ 10,000 hours of runtime. The manufacturer of your cell stated to you that you could expect to get 1-2 years of use out of it. It would seem that you've gotten about what they predicted, ~15 months.

    Given your circumstances, you probably can't expect much better than that. You don't report much calcium scale and your water seems to be fairly stable so there's not much you can do from a water chemistry perspective to improve the performance.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    smeestu's Avatar
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    Re: Yet another swg problem

    Just a update yesterday it stopped functioning all together just had 888 on the % screen nothing it didnt turn the pump on either (has a biult in timer with pump outlet) i tried to call the manufacturer no answer so i called the main importer to Thailand .They put me through to a english speaker ,who i told my problems to he said when you have 888 on the screen 99% of the time a internal fuse has blown if its not that post it to them and they will check it out . So i stripped it down and sure enough inside are 2x 15amp fuses tested them 1 was blown ,a quick trip to the local electrical shop and it starts up again now running with no problem no red lights on 100% for 5 hours yesterday afternoon . I dont understand how this has happened why i had red lights for service which clear unless it has some sort of safety voltage/amp reset the blown fuse was discloured on the outside any electricians out there care to enlighten me what may of happened .As a precaution im not running the pump through it at the moment
    Home built Concrete pool tiled 100% 6M X 12M 1.1-1.6 m deep 93,000 litres 24,500 US gallons
    Emaux SB15 1.5hp pump ,Emaux v700B Sand Filter with Zealbrite
    Emaux SSC50-T 45g/hr swg ,Jacuzzi chlorine Tablet Feeder

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Yet another swg problem

    Well, you said your electric supply is unreliable. Perhaps it was a voltage spike or the pump that was running through the controller momentarily put too high a load on the controller.

    Either way, a blown fuse is definitely much better than a dead unit needing warranty repair.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    smeestu's Avatar
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    Re: Yet another swg problem

    Thanks for the help it seems to be working ok run it a total of 10 hours now although i have taken the pump out of the SWG built in outlet and put it on a separate timer now.It shouldn't have got a spike through as the whole house is on a AVR because the electric can be flakey around here but who knows . I have noticed when i plug the pump in (pump turned off) I can here a low level hum coming from the swg dont know why but if i unplug the pump the noise stops so ill keep it separate i think .
    Home built Concrete pool tiled 100% 6M X 12M 1.1-1.6 m deep 93,000 litres 24,500 US gallons
    Emaux SB15 1.5hp pump ,Emaux v700B Sand Filter with Zealbrite
    Emaux SSC50-T 45g/hr swg ,Jacuzzi chlorine Tablet Feeder

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    Re: Yet another swg problem

    Your pump may be putting a strain on the timer or relay circuit, plus the pump is an inductive device. When it shuts off there will be a small back feed from the collapsing magnetic field into the swg. That combined with heat and who knows what else could have contributed to blowing one side of the circuit fuses. Keeping them on separate synchronized timers sounds like the best idea. If the pump being plugged in causes a hum through the swg even when the pump isn't running, there is a small electrical leak of some description. That too may be a contributor.
    16X32 AB, Pentair SD filter, 3/4hp Pentair Optiflo, CircuPool RJ30+ swg, TF 100

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    smeestu's Avatar
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    Re: Yet another swg problem

    Thanks for the reply and advice/explanation i will run them on separate timer/feeds seems to make a difference .

    Quote Originally Posted by Vickery View Post
    Your pump may be putting a strain on the timer or relay circuit, plus the pump is an inductive device. When it shuts off there will be a small back feed from the collapsing magnetic field into the swg. That combined with heat and who knows what else could have contributed to blowing one side of the circuit fuses. Keeping them on separate synchronized timers sounds like the best idea. If the pump being plugged in causes a hum through the swg even when the pump isn't running, there is a small electrical leak of some description. That too may be a contributor.
    Home built Concrete pool tiled 100% 6M X 12M 1.1-1.6 m deep 93,000 litres 24,500 US gallons
    Emaux SB15 1.5hp pump ,Emaux v700B Sand Filter with Zealbrite
    Emaux SSC50-T 45g/hr swg ,Jacuzzi chlorine Tablet Feeder

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