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Thread: Just getting started

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    Just getting started

    So my head is spinning. We are looking to build our first IG pool and have never owned one before. We live in the Wylie, TX and are starting to get companies coming out to give bids. I know I am opening up a can of worms but wanted to get some opinions. Not sure what type of water treatment system to use; chlorine, saltwater, O3, Ultra UV?? I read and read and I just get "tired head". We have a rod iron fence and I hear saltwater systems cause corrosion and could cause damage to flagstone. Then there is the filtration system DE or cartridge. Just need a little help and be pointed in the right direction.
    IG 11,900 Gallons, with hot tub, 3 to 5.5 ft deep, Hayward equipment, T-CELL 115 SWG, DE filter

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    Kiss4aFrog's Avatar
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    Re: Just getting started

    Welcome to TFP Wylie

    I'd heartily recommend the SWCG over the chlorine (bleach), and only those two. It's just so much easier than having to lug all those jugs around and having to pick up some every week or so.
    You'll need to talk to someone else about the saltwater affecting flagstone but I have read about soft stone being affected in some cases. Maybe you can use stamped and colored concrete to achieve the desired effect, or close ??

    You'll need a good test kit, recommend the TF100 TFTestkits.net with a Speedstir. So much easier letting the little thing mix while you're trying to add and count drops and look for a color change. TFTestkits.net

    I like a sand filter but that's just me. If I had to go new I might get a DE but there are pros and cons to each. Sand is easy low maintenance and it works just fine for me.

    For a pump make sure it's two speed or variable speed (more expensive) if it makes sense to spend the extra $$ on one. If you go variable make sure you have a surge protector (extra $$) in the circuit as their electronic controls are more susceptible to spikes.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. June 20-80+
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
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    ned8377's Avatar
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    Re: Just getting started

    I would get a sand filter that is over sized for your pool. It will probably be cheaper than DE or cartridge. It will work fine and most of all, will be much easier if you ever get algae. I would also recommend an over sized salt water chlorine generator.
    True L 45,000 gal Hayward vinyl pool. Hayward Tristar 2.40 THP; 1.5 FRHP/1.60 SF. Hayward Model # S244T2 Sand Filter. Aqua Rite T-15. Aqua Comfort 154,000 BTU Heat Pump.

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    Re: Just getting started

    Welcome! Live close to you... 95% of builders will discourage you to do a Salt Water pool. Many are afraid of corrosion and other issues. I researched and chose to build a salt water pool with Oklahoma flagstone and travertine. I'm currently building right now and plan on selling the stone myself.

    Thank you to the forum for pointing me correctly.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Just getting started

    +1 to saltwater chlorine generator being the way to go. I am in season 5 with no issues from salt. Are you in Wylie, TX? My PB will gladly build you a saltwater pool. His has been installed down the street from me for 10ish years now.

    Please add your state to you location over there <-----, I might be the only one here who know where Wylie TX is.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Just getting started

    IMO, saltwater for sure. Keep in mind that a Saltwater pool is still a chlorine pool. We usually use the acronym SWG, short for salt-water generator. A better acronym would be SWCG, short for salt-water chlorine generator.

    Salt water chlorination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "Salt water chlorination is a process that uses dissolved salt (2,500–6,000 ppm) as a store for the chlorination system.[1] The chlorine generator (also known as salt cell, salt generator, salt chlorinator or SWG) uses electrolysis in the presence of dissolved salt (NaCl) to produce hypochlorous acid (HClO) and sodium hypochlorite (NaClO), which are the sanitizing agents already commonly used in swimming pools. As such, a saltwater pool is not actually chlorine-free; it simply utilizes a chlorine generator instead of direct addition of chlorine."

    Here at TFP, there are really only 2 methods that will get he nod.
    1. Manual or automated addition of liquid chlorine (common household bleach or maximum strenght often sold at Home Improvement stores as Liquid Shock or similar name).
    2. SWG

    Note: #1 above does not include tab/stick based chlorinators such as the Rainbow. Amazon.com : Pentair R171096 Rainbow 320 Automatic In-Line Chlorine/Bromine Feeder For Pool And Spa : Swimming Pool Chemicals And Supplies : Patio, Lawn Garden
    Matt
    2016 Pool Build: 12k IG Blue Granite Pebblesheen, Travertine Coping & Pavers, Pentair IntelliFlo, Intellichlor, Easytouch, Clean & Clear 320, Heliocol Solar - TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    SWG Run Time Calculator

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    Re: Just getting started

    You can use the search function here (upper right) and learn about alternative sanitizers such as UV and ozone. A Salt Water Chlorinator (SWC) is a very convenient way to go.

    Marketers will play on your concerns about chlorine, but once you read a bit here, you'll learn that there's no science to support popular culture concerns about chlorine as a pool sanitizer.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: Just getting started

    Thanks for the feed back. I had a PB come by and they suggested a chlorine pool and adding protein to it. He advised that SWC works about 9 months out of the year in Texas but during the cold months you have to add chlorine because the SWG can't keep up?? Does this make sense??
    IG 11,900 Gallons, with hot tub, 3 to 5.5 ft deep, Hayward equipment, T-CELL 115 SWG, DE filter

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Just getting started

    Yes, that is true, the SWG cell will not produce chlorine in colder water, usually below 60 degrees or so. I turn off my SWG when the water drops below 70. I use bleach all winter. The FC usage is much lower with colder water and nobody swimming. I only need to add a jug or two a month.

    A jug of 8.25% bleach from the grocery store adds 4ppm of FC to my pool. I keep my FC above 10 ppm during winter. When I test FC and it drops below 10 I will check my PH and then add 1 or 2 jugs of bleach and leave it alone for a week or two or three. The PH test is not valid when FC is above 10 so this works out pretty well.


    I don't know what adding protein to it means. I would not. More here on ozone, UV and other systems, Alternative sanitizers and pools--The Truth!!
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Just getting started

    Not sure what that PB may have said that would come out as "Protein" Protein would be something you'd be using the bleach to kill.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. June 20-80+
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on so we can be here for others, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Just getting started

    Hi neighbor!! I'm in rowlett. You will hear a lot of different opinions from pool builders. Just do your research and then tell them what you want remover they will be working for you. Have you decided on a builder yet? We shopped around a lot and finally settled on a small local owned company. Pm me if you want name or info.
    Free form pool 90'3" prim, 14180 gallons. TF100 Kit In pool table with travertine top, 3sheer descents, Depth 3.5-5-4, Jandy 2HP pump, Inline Chlorinator, Wetedge Satin Matrix Antigua.

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    Re: Just getting started

    So, I decided to go with a Rainbow Model automatic chlorine feeder. Seems like I would have issues with corrision on my rod iron fence, flagstone and equipment down the road. Any reason for ozone or uv equipment? Also decided on a DE filter. (Opinions are welcomed)

    Now shopping PB. First one stood us up twice, second on designed something totally opposite of what we wanted and the third did a great job but we want more bids.
    IG 11,900 Gallons, with hot tub, 3 to 5.5 ft deep, Hayward equipment, T-CELL 115 SWG, DE filter

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    Re: Just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by Wylie2016 View Post
    So, I decided to go with a Rainbow Model automatic chlorine feeder. Seems like I would have issues with corrision on my rod iron fence, flagstone and equipment down the road. Any reason for ozone or uv equipment? Also decided on a DE filter. (Opinions are welcomed)

    Now shopping PB. First one stood us up twice, second on designed something totally opposite of what we wanted and the third did a great job but we want more bids.
    I believe that equipment is designed for tri-chlor tablets. Here at TFP we would strongly reccomend against that method of chlorination as "eventually" you will be fighting high CYA making things more difficult to manage. Before deciding, maybe you should do some reading in the links below.

    Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

    If you learn what and why what levels are in your pool, that may be more important but eventually with pucks and tablets you'll find yourself needing to drain and refill.
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
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    Re: Just getting started

    IG 11,900 Gallons, with hot tub, 3 to 5.5 ft deep, Hayward equipment, T-CELL 115 SWG, DE filter

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    Re: Just getting started

    Quote Originally Posted by AimeeH View Post
    I believe that equipment is designed for tri-chlor tablets. Here at TFP we would strongly reccomend against that method of chlorination as "eventually" you will be fighting high CYA making things more difficult to manage. Before deciding, maybe you should do some reading in the links below.

    Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart



    If you learn what and why what levels are in your pool, that may be more important but eventually with pucks and tablets you'll find yourself needing to drain and refill.



    So if it is not recommended and I don't want to go with a saltwater pool then what does TFP recommend?
    IG 11,900 Gallons, with hot tub, 3 to 5.5 ft deep, Hayward equipment, T-CELL 115 SWG, DE filter

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    Re: Just getting started

    Testing your water daily and using bleach.

    A Rainbow Model automatic chlorine feeder is a trichlor tablet system. It's not a good idea and you can easily find a lot of threads here where owners have high CYA levles due to using them. Might be handy if or when you're away for a few days and you don't have anyone to mind the pool but not a recommended way to maintain your chlorine level.

    That's a nice layout.
    '70s IG Vinyl 32K gal, Lazy L, Hayward SuperPump 1.5hp 120V, S240 Sand Filter W/DE
    Solar Blanket, Well Water, Borax Added, TF-100 tester. June 20-80+
    1979, 275gal Conway Emerald Spa P-100-2, ES-2 Spa Pack, bromine floater, indoor
    TF-100, Best test kit - TFTestkits.net
    Please help keep the lights on so we can be here for others, become a TFP Supporter!

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Just getting started

    Liquid chlorine aka bleach depending on where you buy it. That is what I use on a daily bases to keep my pool clear and clean.

    I used tablets in an inline feeder on my first pool along with the "bags of shock". All of this was under the guidance of a pool store. I would have my water tested about once a week and would buy what they told me to ($$). I was fine for the first year. After that it was all down hill from there I started having a hard time keeping the water clear then I started seeing green in my pool. Kept going to the pool store...........oh buy this, do that, drain a little water....all will be well.

    Fast forward another year and my liner "rotted" out and my water went rushing out almost taking me with it. Knowing what I know now my PH, TA and CYA were way out of wack and it ruined my pool. Sold the pool and was never going to have another one

    My husband found TFP and look at me now! A MOD on a pool forum! LOL

    Saying all of that........please take some time to read here on TFP about caring for your pool. Look at the links Aimee shared and go from there!

    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Just getting started

    If you have a concern about saltwater chlorination, then it's chlorinating liquid as explained above. You can automate the dosing of chlorinating liquid, if that's something you need. There's a couple of options but don't ask pool builders or pool stores. They will try to sell you ORP sensing and over-priced injectors. It's quite simple to set up.

    Puck and tab feeders cause trouble very quickly.

    Note that any pool builds up salt over time. Non-saltwater pools typically have 500 to 1500 ppm salt, saltwater pools are around 3000 to 4000, both much lower than seawater at 35,000. Some people add salt to their pools just for the nicer feel of the water, without using a saltwater chlorinator.

    You asked about UV/Ozone, etc. Please read the following thread. The thread may seem old, but little has changed with respect to these systems. UV/ozone/ionizers etc. are not new technology as marketers like to suggest. All of them require that you continue to also use chlorine to keep the pool safe. Ionizers introduce risks you don't ever want to have to deal with. Alternative sanitizers and pools--The Truth!!
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: Just getting started

    Let me ask you a rational question - why do you believe your wrought iron fence will rust from a salt water pool? What physical processes will cause the salt water to come out of the pool, land on your fence and cause corrosion?

    The answer is - there is none. Saltwater from your pool doesn't magically vaporize and turn into salt water mist that attacks metals around your home. So unless someone is literally taking buckets of water out of your pool and throwing it onto your metal fencing, there is absolutely no physical/chemical method of your pool water causing enhanced corrosion of your metal fence.

    Please read this thread - Texas vs. SWG - What is the deal

    There are a few posts in there from a forum member who is a service manager for a big Texas pool builder. He admits that they try to push customers away from salt but not for any scientific reason. The reason is, the sub contractors they deal with refuse to warranty work with salt pools because they get more service/warranty issues. But most of the time that is not the fault of salt but because proper pool chemistry is not maintained. In other words, in the early days of SWG pools, PBs were pushing them as miracle, no maintenance type pools and so pool owners would neglect proper pool care. This, along with complete ignorance on the part of PBs in how these systems operate and how to maintain them, lead to advanced degradation of pools structures. The easy culprit was to blame it all on salt (total fiction not grounded in scientific proof) and subs refused to do the work or forced PBs to accept liability. Thus began the push away from SWGs.

    I have had an SWG pool for years. If SWGs were ever no longer available, I would not own a pool.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Just getting started

    Wylie, take everything with a grain of salt and choose what you think is best for you. Ultimately, you are paying the bills and you will be the one handling everything.

    I do agree that PBs use fear mongering on SWCG because they don't want to deal with the headaches of user not properly running their pool.

    My brother in law has SWCG in Flower Mound, his pool is absolutely fine, he actually encouraged me to go SWCG. With that being said, I plan on sealing all of my rock work, coping, travertine to prevent "problems".

    Good luck!

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