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Thread: Suction Cleaner with Pentair VS pump???????

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    Join Date
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    Suction Cleaner with Pentair VS pump???????

    20,000 gal pool. Pentair 3hp VS pump. Main drain and skimmer have 2.5" lines back to pump. Suction cleaner line is standard 1.5". Currently have a Zodiac Elite MX8 suction cleaner.

    To get the right flow/speed for the cleaner, I have to funnel 90% of water thru the suction line at 2500 rpm's. I have the main drain closed, so the additional 10% flows thru the skimmer. I could close the skimmer completely, and then lower the RPM's a bit, but I want the skimmer doing some of the work cleaning floating stuff.
    Here's my concern:
    1. The benefit of a VS pump is to run at low RPM's for longer time period, however, suction cleaners need higher flows to work
    2. Having flow thru the larger lines (drain/skimmer) let's in more volume and makes pump work less hard. With the suction cleaner, we're pulling flow thru the 1.5" line, making the pump work that much harder. I'm starting to think that a VS pump, with a suction cleaner is not the right combination to maximize the benefits of the VS pump.
    The cleaner is always connected and the values are set for the cleaner so I can't run the pump in a different set up unless I go out there each time to change settings, and I don't have time for that

    Question:
    Is there anyone out there currently using a VS pump with suction cleaner? If so, what's your experience. I've called both the pump and cleaner manufactures and they were not much help.
    Owner Builder 15x32 sport pool. In process of building. Completing digging, plumbing, electrical, tile & equipment install myself, contracting out remaining.

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Suction Cleaner with Pentair VS pump???????

    You have found the downside to having either a suction or pressure side cleaners. Both require additional pump speeds and run times. This is why robot cleaners were invented.

    Suction and pressure cleaners are pretty old technology for any new pool.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Suction Cleaner with Pentair VS pump???????

    Rownder,

    Each has their own pros and cons. A lot of people with the non-robot cleaners leave them in the pool all the time and just let them automatically come on. The downside is that the pump (or pumps in the case of the pressure side cleaners) have to come on to make them run. And in the case of a VS pump it will have to run at a pretty high RPM to make the cleaners work. Depending on the set up, and if automation is involved, often valves have to be moved in order for the non-robot cleaners to work.

    A robot is powered by a low voltage electrical cable and none of the pool pumps need to be running. The downside to robots is the initial cost, although, as they get more popular, that cost is coming down. Also, it is recommended that the robot be removed from the pool when the cleaning cycle is complete, where non-robot cleaners can just live in the pool.

    For me, it is a no brainer. Robots are like today's cell phone technology vs. the old rotary dial non-robot technology.

    I'm sure others will join in with an opposing view..

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    PoolingAround's Avatar
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    Re: Suction Cleaner with Pentair VS pump???????

    Well shoot, wish I researched this more instead of just listening to my pool builder. Wonder if he'll take it back (pressure side pentair racer here.....).
    18k gallon, 20x32, salt IC20, gunite with quartz finish, raised spa with overflow, flagstone coping, moss rock waterfall, Pentair Intelliflo variable speed pump, Pentair Racer, Pentair pool pump, cartridge filter, heater, etc., acid dispenser.
    TF-100 kit for sparkling clean water.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Suction Cleaner with Pentair VS pump???????

    I have the same experience as the OP with my Kreepy Krawly SandShark (Pentair). To get any good cleaning out of it I have to shunt most of my pump suction (>75%) to the vacuum port and run my VSP at no less than 2500 rpm. If I don't, then Kreepy just creeps with very little cleaning.

    I have basically left KK attached all the time, except during swimming, and I've added a high speed 1-1/2hr cleaning feature circuit to my automation panel.

    As soon as Kreepy dies or when then pool capital account is restored (the CFO is a tight-wad!), my next pool cleaner will be a robot.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Re: Suction Cleaner with Pentair VS pump???????

    let's in more volume and makes pump work less hard.
    I don't think this has anything to do with anything but your pump actually works harder, even though the flow might be reduced in psi, there is still actually more flow. More flow = More work for the pump.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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