Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Yes/No checklist for using garden shed storage

  1. Back To Top    #1
    AnAltruist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Near Toledo, Ohio
    Posts
    46

    Question Yes/No checklist for using garden shed storage

    Hi everyone,

    I'm looking at getting a small resin garden shed to put near the pool. It's a bit of a pain to trudge to the garage to get brushes, toys, the test kit, chemicals, the pool robot, etc.

    However, northwest Ohio still gets warm in the summer (nearly a week and a half of high 80s and low 90s with no rain). With that said, we're no Texas or Arizona.

    With temperature being a factor, I wanted everyone's take on the following checklist of things I'd consider putting in there. I'm only starting the second month of pool ownership (came with the house) so any knowledge is welcomed.

    For reference, it's the Suncast BMS3400. It will get half of the day in the sun and half in the shade. I have no clue how hot it's going to get in there.

    The equipment for storage consideration:
    • Dolphin S300i
    • HTH dry chemicals (calcium, sanitizer, pH up/down)
    • Taylor K 2006 test kit
    • The then-current jug of bleach (I don't expect a gallon to last me but a week or likely less - the other jugs will live in the cooler garage until ready)
    • Spongex noodle (like a foam pool noodle on steroids - from Sams Club)
    • Wall Whale brush and stainless steel brush
    • Standard variety of goggles/masks/snorkels/etc.


    If having the robot in there is a terrible idea then I might consider going down a size. It just so happens that the model I'm looking at has the perfect dimensions to fit Wall-E.

    Thank you for any advice!
    34K gallon 40x20 Gunite IG, Sta-Rite Cristal-Flo sand filter, Hayward H400ED2 heater, Hayward SP2602VSP variable pump,
    Sani-King Perform-Max sanitizer (empty), Taylor K-2006 test kit, TFTestkit pressure gauge, Dolphin S300i (Wall-E).

  2. Back To Top    #2
    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    11,581

    Yes/No checklist for using garden shed storage

    I have a sun cast resin deck box in the AZ heat. On its first season. Working just fine.

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Do not EVER store acid with chlorine in the same place. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER!!!

    Also, NEVER EVER EVER store your test kit outdoors. That's the quickest way to degrade and destroy the reagents.

    Bleach should never be stored outside, heat and light degrade it.

    Acid is ok but only if the box is vented, fumes can build up. If you do store acid in there anything metal will corroded in less than a season. I honestly just store my acid outdoors in a remote part of the yard a little ways away from my equipment pad. Does it get hot? Yep. Does it matter at all? Nope. I'd much rather have the acid fumes wafting away on the breeze than building up in a shed.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: Yes/No checklist for using garden shed storage

    Muriatic acid outside in the shade, under a deck or something.
    Bleach I side in the laundry room or pantry
    Test kit inside in the AC, laundry room or pantry

    Everything else in a shed.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  4. Back To Top    #4
    AnAltruist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Near Toledo, Ohio
    Posts
    46

    Re: Yes/No checklist for using garden shed storage

    Just to clarify, I am not using muriatic acid due to sensitivity. Other than the bleach my other adjusters are dry pellets. Even then the bleach would be on the floor level and the pellets on a shelf.

    I figured the test kit needed to live indoors but thankfully that's the smallest. Having that in the kitchen which is nearest the back door is not a huge deal.

    Does bleach degrade that quickly where storing one container outside for the few days I'm using it is going to matter? Again the other bottles live in the house until I deplete the one I'm using.
    34K gallon 40x20 Gunite IG, Sta-Rite Cristal-Flo sand filter, Hayward H400ED2 heater, Hayward SP2602VSP variable pump,
    Sani-King Perform-Max sanitizer (empty), Taylor K-2006 test kit, TFTestkit pressure gauge, Dolphin S300i (Wall-E).

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: Yes/No checklist for using garden shed storage

    How big is your pool? Add your pool info to your signature so that we can better help you. More here on what to put in your signature and how to do it, Pool School - Read This BEFORE You Post
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  6. Back To Top    #6
    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    11,581

    Re: Yes/No checklist for using garden shed storage

    Quote Originally Posted by AnAltruist View Post
    Just to clarify, I am not using muriatic acid due to sensitivity. Other than the bleach my other adjusters are dry pellets. Even then the bleach would be on he floor level and the pellets on a shelf.

    I figured the test kit needed to live indoors but thankfully that's the smallest. Having that in the kitchen which is nearest the back door is not a huge deal.

    Does bleach degrade that quickly where storing one container outside for the few days I'm using it is going to matter? Again the other bottles live in the house until I deplete the one I'm using.
    It does not matter if the chemicals are solids or liquids, acids are incompatible with bases and chlorine is incompatible with acids. Standard chemical safety procedures dictate that you keep these chemicals separated. Even in dry form, all solid chlorine compounds (dichlor, trichlor, cal-hypo, etc) emit chlorine fumes. Most, if not all, chemical containers are designed NOT to be air-tight to avoid swelling and bulging. Chemicals can accidentally spill and get wet, causing even further hazards. Keeping hazardous, incompatible chemicals separated is standard practice in all situations, pool chemicals are not exempt.

    As for bleach degradation with temperature, see this post - Breakdown of bleach over time by storage temperature - Page 2

    It is not at all inconceivable that the internal temperature of that shed could reach 100F on a hot summer day. One bottle of bleach is probably not a big deal but it will degrade by about 1% in absolute terms so you should factor that in to your Pool Math additions.

    Also note that TFP does not encourage the use of dry acid in pools, especially plaster pools. Dry acid is sodium bisulfate which, as the chemical name suggests, will lead to the build up of sulfates in pool water. Sulfates are damaging to concrete and plaster due to a process know as sulfate attack and typically one wants to keep sulfate levels below 300ppm. Every pound of dry acid added to 10,000 gallons of pool water increases sulfate concentration by ~8ppm. Backwashing and winterization (draining) will reduce sulfate levels in pool water and could be used to keep sulfates in check, but there's no simple test for sulfates so that makes managing them difficult.

    As for pH-UP, we do not recommend buying brand name chemicals for that as they are simply repackaged and more expensive versions of chemicals found in the laundry aisle of any big-box store. 20 Mule Team Borax will raise pH and Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda (sodium carbonate) will raise both pH and TA. Both of those chemicals are adequate for pool use and cost about half as much as any of the branded pool chemicals like HTH.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

  7. Back To Top    #7
    AnAltruist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Near Toledo, Ohio
    Posts
    46

    Re: Yes/No checklist for using garden shed storage

    Failed to include my signature on the middle post but it was on the first post. I'll look for the checkbox next time I post on mobile.

    Duly noted on the acid and liquid chlorine warnings. What may end up happening is I put the dry stuff in the shed and get a small box to put just inside the back door for the current chlorine bottle and my measuring bucket. Or I leave the dry acid in the garage since I rarely need it and the chlorine in the shed in a bucket in case of leaks. Even when I'm losing near-zero FC overnight it still takes me about a fifth of the gallon to keep FC where I want after a day in the sun. As long as it isn't over 90 degrees in the shed I'm willing to lose nearly a percent by day 5 on one bottle. On top of that, I doubt it will be 90 degrees in there 24/7 in NW Ohio so the degradation would be slower.

    I went to Sam's Club and Wal-Mart looking for large amounts of borax and was unsuccessful. A tiny little box of 20 Mule Team was $4. I needed something that day so I settled for the HTH product which treated significantly more water for the price. If I can find borax at a different store in the future I'll go that route. I've hardly touched the pH +/- bottles since I've had them so I should have time to find a borax source.

    Since the chlorine is going to vent maybe keeping it away from the robot in a confined space is a good idea anyway.
    34K gallon 40x20 Gunite IG, Sta-Rite Cristal-Flo sand filter, Hayward H400ED2 heater, Hayward SP2602VSP variable pump,
    Sani-King Perform-Max sanitizer (empty), Taylor K-2006 test kit, TFTestkit pressure gauge, Dolphin S300i (Wall-E).

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: Yes/No checklist for using garden shed storage

    In your pool a jug of 8.25% bleach adds 2.4 ppm of FC, no reason not to add a whole jug when you add more. It adds 4 ppm to my pool and I always just add the whole jug.

    Yes, the check sig box needs to be checked one time on each device then it will stay checked.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  9. Back To Top    #9
    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    11,581

    Re: Yes/No checklist for using garden shed storage

    One reason to not use pH-UP products is that not only is it overpriced sodium carbonate but also it raises both pH AND TA significantly. You want to avoid adding a lot of TA to your pool water as high TA is the primary cause of pH rise. Borax is a better choice because it raises pH but only very slightly affects TA.

    I typically get big boxes of 20 Mule Team Borax or washing soda in either Target or Walmart. I find it unusual that NW Ohio would be any different than other parts of the country in terms of laundry product availability.

    If you aren't using much pH decreaser, then muriatic acid is a better choice. There are half-strength (15.5%) versions of it available in most Lowes or Home Depot hardware stores that are marketed as "low fuming" if the smell bothers you. Sulfates should really be avoided whenever possible especially in a plaster pool.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

  10. Back To Top    #10
    AnAltruist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Near Toledo, Ohio
    Posts
    46

    Re: Yes/No checklist for using garden shed storage

    I'll have to try Target or a different Walmart. I was really shocked how much borax I needed vs what $4 was going to buy me in that little box. I'll move off of the HTH pH adjusters when I run out of the current bottle assuming I'm successful. I'm not sure what the price is supposed to be, but I also see a product on Amazon called MILLIARD Borax Powder. A 10lb bag is $23 with Prime shipping. The description states "made from anhydrous pure powdered sodium borate with no additives or preservatives." A few reviews even mention its use for adjusting pool pH.

    Good tip on the half-strength version of muriatic acid. I'll have to look into that too.

    @Pooldv, I'm using 15% liquid chlorine from a pool store that gets it within a week of its manufacture. They have a refillable container program that makes it easy to swap them out. Potent stuff and I had to be sure I used the higher percent on PoolMath even though its marketed as 12.5%.
    34K gallon 40x20 Gunite IG, Sta-Rite Cristal-Flo sand filter, Hayward H400ED2 heater, Hayward SP2602VSP variable pump,
    Sani-King Perform-Max sanitizer (empty), Taylor K-2006 test kit, TFTestkit pressure gauge, Dolphin S300i (Wall-E).

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: Yes/No checklist for using garden shed storage

    Hey, that's a good deal. But, the higher strength stuff breaks down even faster in the heat. I'd try to find a place in the AC for it.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  12. Back To Top    #12
    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    11,581

    Re: Yes/No checklist for using garden shed storage

    I'd be careful with that borax product and get the MSDS for it to figure out what is in it. The product description states that it is anhydrous sodium borate. Pool Math assumes 20 Mule Team Borax which is sodium tetraborate DECAHYDRATE. So if you use anhydrous grade chemicals (no water in them), the weight measurements will be off and you'll overshoot your pH increase.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •