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Thread: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

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    My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    We are new pool owners and first off let me thank all of you for this site and all of your advice. I have been reading everything I can get my hands on here and it has been TREMENDOUSLY helpful!! I stick test everyday, and FULL test once a week.

    Our pool has been clear now for 6 weeks. We have hardly had to do anything to it, just add tri-chlor pucks When everything was set up (before I knew about this site) they gave us all of the chem's to get it up and running. No problems at all. We had been using the Clorox tri-chlor pucks, which were 95%, and NOW I am aware of the CYA rise issue. Just a couple of days ago, we had to stop using them (CYA reached 50) and are in the process of switching over to BBB, started using bleach 3 days ago.

    My question is, following the 'TFP Basic pool care schedule' guidelines, (50-90) my TA is 90ppm, is was 110ppm- 2 days ago. According to the chart on here for vinyl that is acceptable. Although I have seen 'the ABC's of pool water chemistry chart' on here that says 60-120. My husband was going to the place we bought our pool to pick up our cover and took some pool water in just for a 'check-up'. They told him out TA and PH was drastically low they said (59)and of course wanted him to buy chem's, 28lbs of balance pack 100, 1.5lbs of PH reducer and 2 bags of burnout. I tested it again immediately after he got home and came back with 90ppm....

    TA 90
    FC 1-2 ( going to add some more tonight, since I know it will be gone tomorrow.
    CYA 50
    CC .5
    PH 7.5
    CH 125

    Questions:

    1. The range should be between 60-90...right? The pool store says 125-150. Can someone please clarify what the correct range is for me? thank you.

    2. We are going thru 1/2 gallon of bleach a day. Is this normal, the only thing we have ever done were 1 puck every two days before, so I have no comparison.

    3. Is there anything to keep the chlorine longer in the water? I understand this is what the CYA is 'supposed' to do.

    4. The pool store is recommending we shock every week (don't know of they are trying to get some xtra sales), but I know TFP says not needed unless you run out of chlorine, or CC over .5

    5. I was told by a friend, with an inground pool, to also put algeacide in once a week as an insurance policy.

    Any advice you can give us is greatly appreciated, thank you in advance! We are pretty attentive to this thing, feels a bit like a second child.
    18,000 gallon Doughboy Palm Shores - 28 foot round above ground, 52in tall. Pump- Powerline XP1 2hp. 24in Aquaview Sand filter with 7 position valve. Test kit: TF-100 with a K1000, Leslie's test strips for FC,TA, PH, CYA.

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    Welcome to TFP

    You have a good test kit. Trust your results over the store. I'll see if I can answer your questions.

    1. Guidelines are just that when it comes to TA. TA is a buffer for your PH. So if your PH is in range and happily stays there, don't worry about your TA.

    2. On bleach.....that depends on bather load and if there is algae lurking ready to pounce.

    3. Yes.....raising your CYA "might" help your FC last longer if you're in a very sunny environment but 50 should generally be good.......unless......see my answer to #2

    4. Please don't listen to the pool store on shocking. You'll get all the help you need on this forum

    5.algaecide is not necessary. Some contain copper that can actually cause staining over time. Not needed. I'm not your friend with an In ground pool but I'm a willing contributer here with an inground pool and I'd almost never use Algaecide.

    Please feel free to post any and all questions. There is never a shortage of help here.
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
    http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    To add to what Amy said...

    1. Don't worry about your TA too much. The recommendations are just that. Your pool will let you know if its happy or not by how quickly the pH rises. If the pH is fairly stable, you're good. If it rises quickly, then the TA may need to be lowered a bit to counteract the ph rise. Since you dont have a plaster pool where CH and TA can be a bit perplexing, you have to worry about it even less. For example, my TA is 50 and my pool is plenty happy.

    2. Depending on bather load, direct sun exposure, and other similar things, 1/2 gallon may be what's needed to keep the FC in line with your CYA level.

    3. You may be able to reduce the FC consumption by raising the FC up a bit, as long as you are aware that your FC also needs to go up with it. Just dont get too high. The reason we recommend this is because if you do get algae, then clearing it up is more difficult and expensive with a higher than normal CYA level.

    4. The pool store recommends to shock every week because their normal method of pool care is not sufficient to keep the water clean and sanitary. If you follow the tFP recommendations, you will not need to shock the pool. Also, shocking the pool will raise the CYA.

    5. What is an algaecide? Something that prevent algae from growing would be a good answer. Chlorine does that if you keep it at the TFP recommended level. Algaecides are expensive and most all contains copper. If conditions are right, the copper can leave ugly stains in the pool that are very difficult or impossible to remove. It also turns blonde hair green. If you use it and any blonde hairs turn green, shampoo with ketchup and it will turn it back to blonde again.

    Good luck and enjoy the pool!

    Quote Originally Posted by DLB1641 View Post
    We are new pool owners and first off let me thank all of you for this site and all of your advice. I have been reading everything I can get my hands on here and it has been TREMENDOUSLY helpful!! I stick test everyday, and FULL test once a week.

    Our pool has been clear now for 6 weeks. We have hardly had to do anything to it, just add tri-chlor pucks When everything was set up (before I knew about this site) they gave us all of the chem's to get it up and running. No problems at all. We had been using the Clorox tri-chlor pucks, which were 95%, and NOW I am aware of the CYA rise issue. Just a couple of days ago, we had to stop using them (CYA reached 50) and are in the process of switching over to BBB, started using bleach 3 days ago.

    My question is, following the 'TFP Basic pool care schedule' guidelines, (50-90) my TA is 90ppm, is was 110ppm- 2 days ago. According to the chart on here for vinyl that is acceptable. Although I have seen 'the ABC's of pool water chemistry chart' on here that says 60-120. My husband was going to the place we bought our pool to pick up our cover and took some pool water in just for a 'check-up'. They told him out TA and PH was drastically low they said (59)and of course wanted him to buy chem's, 28lbs of balance pack 100, 1.5lbs of PH reducer and 2 bags of burnout. I tested it again immediately after he got home and came back with 90ppm....

    TA 90
    FC 1-2 ( going to add some more tonight, since I know it will be gone tomorrow.
    CYA 50
    CC .5
    PH 7.5
    CH 125

    Questions:

    1. The range should be between 60-90...right? The pool store says 125-150. Can someone please clarify what the correct range is for me? thank you.

    2. We are going thru 1/2 gallon of bleach a day. Is this normal, the only thing we have ever done were 1 puck every two days before, so I have no comparison.

    3. Is there anything to keep the chlorine longer in the water? I understand this is what the CYA is 'supposed' to do.

    4. The pool store is recommending we shock every week (don't know of they are trying to get some xtra sales), but I know TFP says not needed unless you run out of chlorine, or CC over .5

    5. I was told by a friend, with an inground pool, to also put algeacide in once a week as an insurance policy.

    Any advice you can give us is greatly appreciated, thank you in advance! We are pretty attentive to this thing, feels a bit like a second child.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    Dave - Thank you for your reply.....Below is your reply.....Did you mean CYA? Not FC

    3. You may be able to reduce the FC consumption by raising the FC up a bit, as long as you are aware that your FC also needs to go up with it.
    18,000 gallon Doughboy Palm Shores - 28 foot round above ground, 52in tall. Pump- Powerline XP1 2hp. 24in Aquaview Sand filter with 7 position valve. Test kit: TF-100 with a K1000, Leslie's test strips for FC,TA, PH, CYA.

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    The second FC should be CYA.
    Bob - Palm Beach by San Juan Pools. approx 5000 gals., Pentair 320 cartridge filter (all new guts installed by me), Goldline SWG, 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Intermec 104 Timer Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    OK, thank you. My husband is our cleaning the pool now, he says there are a few black spots on the bottom..he said they aren't coming up...is this the dreaded black algae I have been reading about? What do we do for that! :/
    18,000 gallon Doughboy Palm Shores - 28 foot round above ground, 52in tall. Pump- Powerline XP1 2hp. 24in Aquaview Sand filter with 7 position valve. Test kit: TF-100 with a K1000, Leslie's test strips for FC,TA, PH, CYA.

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    Totally ignore the TA advice - you're perfectly fine where you are at.

    Since you were curious - TA performs 2 roles in your pool. Firstly it act as a PH buffer (keeps the PH from swinging around wildly) and secondly it assists in raising the Calcium Saturation Index (CSI) of the water. CSI is important if you have a plaster pool - too low and the water will dissolve the calcium out of the plaster, too high and the water will deposit calcium scale on everything. Your CSI is about -.45 or so, perfectly normal for a vinyl pool.

    The test result you got from the pool store (59) is a sure sign it's a computer test. They dip a strip and toss it into a reader that spits out a bunch of numbers. Those machines are horribly unreliable.



    I doubt your black spots are algae related. You guys are just getting into this - so take it slow and try not to worry about the pool too much. Keep your CYA/Chlorine ratio in line and you won't get algae. Keep the PH in line and the water will feel nice to swim in. Once you've got a season under your belt it will all feel less fraught.
    16K Gal Plaster | Compupool SWG | Intelliflow VF | TF-100

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    One last question, I was reviewing the chlorine/CYA chart, and just so I am understanding.....

    Typically you want to keep your Chlorine between 1-4. This is the recommended.
    But if your CYA is 50, do I need to now keep my Chlorine at 6?? Is that correct? Is this level safe to swim?

    Last night our chlorine was 1-2, so we added more to bring it up to 4-6. Looked good on
    my quick strip test. This morning it was back to one. Pool math says to add another
    gallon to get it up to 6 again. That was less than 8 hours ago.

    We had this working perfectly with the tri-chlor pucks, and now that we have switched to bleach
    this is becoming crazy, adding so much bleach everyday. It is WAY more expensive.

    What am I missing??
    18,000 gallon Doughboy Palm Shores - 28 foot round above ground, 52in tall. Pump- Powerline XP1 2hp. 24in Aquaview Sand filter with 7 position valve. Test kit: TF-100 with a K1000, Leslie's test strips for FC,TA, PH, CYA.

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    Thank you!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lightingguy View Post
    Totally ignore the TA advice - you're perfectly fine where you are at.

    Since you were curious - TA performs 2 roles in your pool. Firstly it act as a PH buffer (keeps the PH from swinging around wildly) and secondly it assists in raising the Calcium Saturation Index (CSI) of the water. CSI is important if you have a plaster pool - too low and the water will dissolve the calcium out of the plaster, too high and the water will deposit calcium scale on everything. Your CSI is about -.45 or so, perfectly normal for a vinyl pool.

    The test result you got from the pool store (59) is a sure sign it's a computer test. They dip a strip and toss it into a reader that spits out a bunch of numbers. Those machines are horribly unreliable.



    I doubt your black spots are algae related. You guys are just getting into this - so take it slow and try not to worry about the pool too much. Keep your CYA/Chlorine ratio in line and you won't get algae. Keep the PH in line and the water will feel nice to swim in. Once you've got a season under your belt it will all feel less fraught.

    Thank you!!
    18,000 gallon Doughboy Palm Shores - 28 foot round above ground, 52in tall. Pump- Powerline XP1 2hp. 24in Aquaview Sand filter with 7 position valve. Test kit: TF-100 with a K1000, Leslie's test strips for FC,TA, PH, CYA.

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    Yes, your target FC level is based on your CYA. It's safe to swim up to the SLAM level (FC of 20 with a CYA of 50 in your case).

    If you continuously use tri-chlor pucks, your CYA increases until your target FC is unreasonable. Then you have to drain and refill your pool and start over. Repeat.

    e: if you have a TF-100 why are you using test strips at all?
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    Quote Originally Posted by AimeeH View Post
    Welcome to TFP

    You have a good test kit. Trust your results over the store. I'll see if I can answer your questions.

    1. Guidelines are just that when it comes to TA. TA is a buffer for your PH. So if your PH is in range and happily stays there, don't worry about your TA.

    2. On bleach.....that depends on bather load and if there is algae lurking ready to pounce.

    3. Yes.....raising your CYA "might" help your FC last longer if you're in a very sunny environment but 50 should generally be good.......unless......see my answer to #2

    4. Please don't listen to the pool store on shocking. You'll get all the help you need on this forum

    5.algaecide is not necessary. Some contain copper that can actually cause staining over time. Not needed. I'm not your friend with an In ground pool but I'm a willing contributer here with an inground pool and I'd almost never use Algaecide.

    Please feel free to post any and all questions. There is never a shortage of help here.

    Thank you Aimee

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bruce View Post
    Yes, your target FC level is based on your CYA. It's safe to swim up to the SLAM level (FC of 20 with a CYA of 50 in your case).

    If you continuously use tri-chlor pucks, your CYA increases until your target FC is unreasonable. Then you have to drain and refill your pool and start over. Repeat.

    e: if you have a TF-100 why are you using test strips at all?


    So we are under chlorinating, at 1-2 with a CYA of 50 then, right??

    - - - Updated - - -
    18,000 gallon Doughboy Palm Shores - 28 foot round above ground, 52in tall. Pump- Powerline XP1 2hp. 24in Aquaview Sand filter with 7 position valve. Test kit: TF-100 with a K1000, Leslie's test strips for FC,TA, PH, CYA.

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    Yes. 1-2 is way too low with CYA of 50. You want to follow that CYA chart.
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
    http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    Thank you! That helps alot. Would it benefit us to get a high concentrate of bleach? We are using 8.25% now.


    Quote Originally Posted by AimeeH View Post
    Yes. 1-2 is way too low with CYA of 50. You want to follow that CYA chart.
    18,000 gallon Doughboy Palm Shores - 28 foot round above ground, 52in tall. Pump- Powerline XP1 2hp. 24in Aquaview Sand filter with 7 position valve. Test kit: TF-100 with a K1000, Leslie's test strips for FC,TA, PH, CYA.

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    Of course. Some places you can get 12.5%, around here Ollies or WalMart are the best we can do with 10%.
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    What Brand do you get that's 10% at Walmart?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bruce View Post
    Of course. Some places you can get 12.5%, around here Ollies or WalMart are the best we can do with 10%.
    18,000 gallon Doughboy Palm Shores - 28 foot round above ground, 52in tall. Pump- Powerline XP1 2hp. 24in Aquaview Sand filter with 7 position valve. Test kit: TF-100 with a K1000, Leslie's test strips for FC,TA, PH, CYA.

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    Holydoc's Avatar
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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    Quote Originally Posted by DLB1641 View Post
    What Brand do you get that's 10% at Walmart?
    I believe they are referring to this brand at Walmart:

    http://www.walmart.com/ip/Pool-Essen...iquid/48938023
    19328 Gallon Above-Ground Pool. Clean&Clear Pentair Cartridge Filter. Opti-flo 2 Stage 1.5hp Pump. Dolphin Nautilus Plus "Flipper" Robot. Established April 2016. Taylor K-2006. Chlorine Based. 340gallon Marquis Spa. Bromine based. Established 2007.

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    Re: My results vs pool store on TA and PH - Huge difference

    That's the one. However, their stock at my local store is old (end of April) so I've switched back to good old 8.25, at least it's fresh.
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

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