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Thread: Pool disaster

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    Pool disaster

    I recently bought a house with a pool in March of this year. Having never owned a pool, I asked the previous home owner if he could give me some directions on how to maintain the pool, how to use the equipment, etc. He agreed to do that and then left me absolutely nothing.

    I didn't move into the house for a few months after buying it, so I hired a pool company called Executive Blue Pools since they were the top rated pool service company on Angie's list. I paid for their weekly pool maintenance service. When they came the first time, they said my pool was green with algae and said the pool needed algaecide treatment. They also said there was blowback from the filter and after opening the filter, found that 2 of the cartridges were ripped apart, and replaced those 2 cartridges.

    After taking care of the pool for 3 months, they said they were never able to completely rid the pool of algae (it would come and go). Their solution was to put crazy amounts of chlorine in the pool using those round disks. They filled the inline chlorinator with them and also put them into a floating chlorinator. When I finally moved into the house in late June, I noticed that the pool was very dirty. They came on Wednesday to clean the pool, and they cleaned it completely, and then on Thursday it was filthy dirty again.

    I opened the pool filter and found that 2 of the filter cartridges were ripped apart. On the advice of the pool store where I bought replacement filters, I checked the plumbing of the filter and found that it was plumbed backwards - the pump was hooked up to the outlet and the return was hooked up to the inlet. I have no idea how it got this way, and for all I know, the previous owner or the pool builder put it in backwards, and for years nobody ever wondered why the pool was always dirty or why the filter cartridges were exploding.

    At this point I cancelled the pool service (after a heated argument with the belligerent pool service owner), but I had already prepaid for July so decided to let them keep cleaning the pool for the remainder of the month. After using the pool for 2 weeks, I noticed that my skin was always itchy after using the pool and my daughter complained that the water was burning her skin. I bought a test kit and found that the FC level was something like 17ppm. I took the floating pool chlorinator out and also turned off the inline chlorinator. After 5 days, I tested it again and the FC level was still 17ppm. At this point I tested the CYA level and it was literally off the charts (the Taylor kit only reads up to 100ppm). I'm guessing it was around 200-300 ppm.

    I called the pool service owner and asked why they were adding chlorine to my pool when the FC level was so high and also asked if they're using CYA. He got very annoyed at the question and said he doesn't use stabilizer. I asked what kind of chlorine disks he uses and he said he uses the kind they sell in every store. I asked what's in it and he said just chlorine and nothing else. I took one of the disks that I removed from the chlorinator and tested the disk itself for CYA and found that it did indeed have CYA in it.

    On Friday of last week I decided to drain the pool completely and start over, based on the pool filter never having worked correctly for years and the pool service company ruining the water by overstabilizing. It took 1 day to drain the pool and 2 days to refill it. On Monday, the new pool service company added some chlorine and stabilizer. They also put 4 of the same kind of disks in the chlorinator. I tested the water last night and measured FC 9.5ppm and CYA 41ppm. The CYA level looks good but the FC level looks high. I turned off the chlorinator to let the chlorine level drop to where it needs to be.

    So my question now is how to properly maintain the FC and CYA levels. I did read the pool school articles but they are not specific about the process of how to maintain the correct levels. My understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that CYA levels will not go down on their own, so I should not add any more stabilized chlorine to the pool. I've removed the stabilized chlorine disks from the chlorinator just to make sure no more CYA gets into the pool. From this point forward, I believe I should only add unstabilized chlorine to the pool, and will need to do so on a daily basis. I guess I will need to test the FC level every day (at morning or at night?) and then add some amount (how much?) bleach to the pool (where? in the skimmer?) to keep the FC level where it needs to be. If I need to go away for some amount of time, i.e. if I go on vacation, then I don't know what would maintain the correct FC levels while I'm away.

    I also don't understand how proper CYA levels can ever be maintained if only using stabilized chlorine tablets, which is what every pool service company uses and which is what's sold in every store. Are all the people who are using these tablets overstabilizing their pool without knowing it? Is everyone doing it wrong?
    13k gal IG plaster; Jandy CV460 cartridge filter; Jandy Pro Series JEP2.0 variable speed ePump; Built in 2014; Taylor K-2006; Spa, Heater, LED lights, Polaris 360 cleaner, Rainbow inline chlorinator; City water

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Pool disaster

    Hello and welcome to TFP! In a nutshell to answer your question ... regular bleach. We feed our pools X-amount of regular bleach each day as required based on the Chlorine/CYA Chart (link below). We also use the Poolmath calculator to calculate how much to dispense. Me personally, I use HEB's Bravo bleach (regular), but you can use Walmart's Great Value or Pool Essentials as well. Like a pet, a pool needs to be fed each day. Bleach will do that and not increase CYA. So once you get that CYA where you want it, it will not go up again unless YOU need it to. We're all about self-testing and user-friendly chemicals that are easy to find and safe for your pool. The Poolmath calculator will also help you tremendously. Hope that helps. Nice to have you with us.
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    cj3737's Avatar
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    Re: Pool disaster

    Thank you so much for doing research!!! you are already light years ahead!!!!
    Unfortunatley "pool experts" don't quite understand the chemistry and only do what they read in books these days... TFP method is soooo much simpler and cheaper...

    CYA... easy once you understand it. ITs basically sunscreen for chlorine. Algae will still eat the chlorine but with proper cya levels, the sun will have a hard time burning it off. CYA doesn't just disappear either.. once you hit your target, it will remain constant unless there is a water change.

    FC- add bleach whenever you need it. Pool math is what we all use so if you take the time to learn how it works, its as easy as putting in your current and target levels and adding what the block tell you to... 32oz to add ok.. here you go..

    The current pool industry only care about the all mighty dollar... it is a slippery slope that most peple get caught on... Low chlorine? Add these tablets that contain CYA.. Still low chlorine? add more.. The higher the CYA, the more chlorine needed to maintain... I threw in a bucket of tabs and my pool is still green... Oh, you need a water change... and the process starts all over again.....

    Bleach doesn't add any cya so its easy to maintain the CYA level...
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    Re: Pool disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by jesses408 View Post
    I also don't understand how proper CYA levels can ever be maintained if only using stabilized chlorine tablets, which is what every pool service company uses and which is what's sold in every store. Are all the people who are using these tablets overstabilizing their pool without knowing it? Is everyone doing it wrong?
    I do it right but there are many people like a friend of mine who has had a pool for probably five years longer than I have. When I first got my pool I asked him a question about his preferred choice of acid to raise pH. He replied that he never bothers checking pH (or anything else) and just adds chlorine regularly.
    Geebot
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    Re: Pool disaster

    Welcome!

    Wow, that's quite the first post.... I'm very sorry for your troubles.

    Glad to see you have a proper test kit.

    Liquid chlorine, aka bleach, is now your friend. Sodium hypochlorite adds nothing but FC and a trace amount of salt. "Pool chlorine" comes in 12.5% or 10% sodium hypochlorite, and is sometimes referred to as "liquid shock", "super shock", etc. Laundry bleach is 8.25% sodium hypochlorite, just don't use the scented or splashless kind, or any other 'special' additives.

    You are correct, if you choose to manually dose the pool, it will need this every day, or at the least every two days in your peak swimming season.

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...pool-chemistry

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...ater-chemistry

    The amount of FC needed to properly sanitize your pool is a % of your CYA level.

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...art-slam-shock

    You are correct that those pucks contain CYA, as well as many granular forms of stabilized chlorine. There is also granular 'cal-hypo' that adds calcium instead of CYA, but like CYA, that will also accumulate needing a drain and refill to dilute (lower).

    Unfortunately you are looking at that scenario to lower your CYA. You should do an extended CYA test to try to get a better idea of your true CYA level:
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/24188-Extended-Test-Kit-Directions?p=203524&viewfull=1#post203524

    Once your CYA is under control and the pool is clean there are alternatives for vacations etc, like raising to shock level and using a puck or two now that you understand what that puck will add. Most people can get by with the added 10ppm or so of added CYA in trade for the FC coverage. While CYA does not dissipate, it does get carried out with splashout & very slowly oxidized by FC so that 10ppm should not be a problem in a properly maintained FC/CYA ratio pool.

    Be sure to read through Pool School, and check out Pool Math, nice way to figure out "how much".
    Here is the primer: http://www.troublefreepool.com/conte...ool-calculator

    I'm sure others will chime in with more info.

    Nice to have you here.

    Dom
    Last edited by domct203; 07-26-2016 at 11:21 AM. Reason: Bad links
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    Re: Pool disaster

    Thanks for the quick replies-

    Quote Originally Posted by cj3737 View Post
    Thank you so much for doing research!!! you are already light years ahead!!!!
    Unfortunatley "pool experts" don't quite understand the chemistry and only do what they read in books these days... TFP method is soooo much simpler and cheaper...
    Agreed - I don't think my old pool company even knows what CYA is. My new pool company (which I only hired to help me drain/clean/refill the pool) was only slightly better-

    Me: What kind of acid are you using?
    Pool company: Muriatic acid
    Me: Oh, hydrochloric acid
    Pool company: No, it's Muriatic acid
    Me: ...
    Some followup questions:
    • What time of day should the testing be done and chemicals added? I assume that if bleach is added in the morning or afternoon, and it's a sunny day, then within 2 hours, the FC that isn't bound to CYA will be eliminated by the sun's UV rays... So if I plan on swimming at night then I will be swimming in water with too low FC?
    • Where should the bleach be added? Into the skimmer basket so that it gets sucked into the filter and distributed via the returns, or should it be poured right into the pool? Does it matter?
    • How to maintain FC levels while away for an extended amount of time without using stabilized chlorine disks?
    13k gal IG plaster; Jandy CV460 cartridge filter; Jandy Pro Series JEP2.0 variable speed ePump; Built in 2014; Taylor K-2006; Spa, Heater, LED lights, Polaris 360 cleaner, Rainbow inline chlorinator; City water

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    Re: Pool disaster

    Time of day isn't too important, just find a routine that works around your schedule. Otherwise you might not be as diligent as you need to be.

    Pour the bleach in the jet from a return. Slow enough that it takes a minute or two to pour a whole gallon. Leave the pump running for at least 30 minutes after any additions.

    Most on here will raise FC to near shock levels before a vacation and then add a tablet or two to a floater or skimmer. But they also know to adjust for the rise in CYA either by lowering before hand or adjusting their levels after for the added CYA. But there are liquid chlorinators made and many homemade versions if you just search on the forum.
    26k Gal IG vinyl, Hayward Super 1HP, Hayward Pro Series S244T Sand Filter, TFTestkits TF-100 w/ Speedstir
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    Re: Pool disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by jesses408 View Post
    Some followup questions:
    • What time of day should the testing be done and chemicals added? I assume that if bleach is added in the morning or afternoon, and it's a sunny day, then within 2 hours, the FC that isn't bound to CYA will be eliminated by the sun's UV rays... So if I plan on swimming at night then I will be swimming in water with too low FC?
    • Where should the bleach be added? Into the skimmer basket so that it gets sucked into the filter and distributed via the returns, or should it be poured right into the pool? Does it matter?
    • How to maintain FC levels while away for an extended amount of time without using stabilized chlorine disks?
    Test/Add chemicals when its good for you...You can even add more than needed to get you thru till the next test.. just don't over do it... ie.. FC at 5, need to get to 7 but cant check it till sundown.. Add enuf to get to 9-9.5. More chlorine is better then no chlorine... Just remember, anything over 10 FC is PH untestable

    Add all chemicals into the return jet... helps to disperse faster


    Vacation time... little trickier.. If you keep your CYA on the low end of the spectrum for your pool, then you can use pucks while you are away. Since you have an SWG, you really don't need to worry about that... If your SWG fails while away, youll be slamming anyways...
    Inherited 24' Muskin Above ground
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    Re: Pool disaster

    A lot of us test in the evening and add bleach after the sun is no longer on the water, that way it completely holds over night.

    Add it very slowly 1 foot in front of the deep end return jet.

    You can use pucks if your away on a vacation (not in the skimmer) in a floater, just keep an eye on and maintain your cya
    so that it doesn't exceed 50 ppm.
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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Pool disaster

    You are going to LOVE your pool now! Go ahead and fire you pool service and ask all of your questions here! We answer for FREE! Well we do like pictures of the pools and smiles as payment

    I am going to give you a set of links I set up for new pool owners. Some of them have already been shared but I am going to give the whole set to make sure I do not miss any:

    Print these out:
    Pool School - Basic Pool Care Schedule

    Pool School - Recommended Levels

    Bookmark these:
    Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/calc.html

    Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

    Make sure to ask any and all questions you might have no matter how small! We have all been where you are at one time.

    I test and add my chlorine at night. I like the idea the FC has all night to work without the sun stealing any of it. That is just me. Others do it in the morning. You have to find what works for you. I did have to put a note on my bathroom mirror so I would remember to turn the pump off after I brushed my teeth for the night. Now it is a habit.

    When we go out of town I use the tablets. I leave enough wiggle room with my CYA to allow me to do so.

    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Pool disaster

    Here's a picture of the pool:
    Attachment 52585

    A picture of what happens if your filter is plumbed backwards:
    Attachment 52584
    13k gal IG plaster; Jandy CV460 cartridge filter; Jandy Pro Series JEP2.0 variable speed ePump; Built in 2014; Taylor K-2006; Spa, Heater, LED lights, Polaris 360 cleaner, Rainbow inline chlorinator; City water

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    Re: Pool disaster

    Wow and WOW!!!!
    If its budgetarily (word???) possible, I would look into a sand filter... youll go crazy and broke changing them papers all the time.... Should have about the same footprint as your current one...
    Inherited 24' Muskin Above ground
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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Pool disaster

    Jess! Did you buy the house for that pretty pool???? LOVE IT!

    Okay so are you SURE it is plumbed backwards? I have to ask to make sure. How old is the pool and set up. HOW in the world did they plumb it BACKWARDS???????? I have to say there IS something wrong when THAT happens to those filters.

    Take and share a few shoots of your set up so our equiment experts can look at them to make sure you are on the right track. I would HATE for you to do a bunch of unneeded work.

    (I am betting you are right but want to make sure)
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Pool disaster

    Great pool! You will not ever be swimming with FC levels too low, or shouldn't be, just always keep your FC level above the minimum by raising it up above your target every night (or every whenever you test). You will soon learn how much above target it needs to be raised so that the next night when you test it will be where you want it to be. This method is so easy anyone could do it. I didn't know anything whatsoever about pools or pool maintenance last year when we got ours and I've maintained it with no issues whatsoever.

    Pucks with CYA do have their place, you can throw some in the pool while on vacation (assuming your CYA is not super high), or you can throw one in for a day if your PH needs to be lowered a little. My PH has been at 7.8 this week so I'm floating a puck today for that reason, I'd like it to drop a few points and I don't have any muriatic acid at the moment. The pucks, being acidic, accomplish this task just fine and won't add much CYA in this short time (plus my pool could use a bit of CYA anyway).
    AGP 33' x 54" Lomart Verona, Approx. 27,300 gallons, Pentair cartridge filter/pump 2-speed, 1.5 hp, Dolphin Escape robotic cleaner.

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    Re: Pool disaster

    Lots of great advice. If you want lower maintenance, switch to a SWG. It is a larger cost upfront, but you don't have to lug bottles of bleach. I'm sure a SWG will be much cheaper in the long run than paying for a pool service company.

    I was a jug lugger for years and finally made the switch to a SWG this year... best pool decision I've made and wish I would have done it years ago!
    Karen
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    Re: Pool disaster

    I'm 100% sure it was plumbed backwards. The outside of the filter has clearly labeled inlet and outlet holes. See in my picture (taken after I fixed it), the bottom drain was pointed towards the house and I couldn't even access it to clean it out. I just turned the whole thing around 180 degrees and plugged the pipes back in to fix it. Ever since then it's worked perfectly and my pool has been crystal clear.

    I can understand how it got to be backwards because it can fit in either direction, I just can't understand how nobody ever noticed and fixed it. The previous owner had the pool for years. I noticed it after 2 days because the filters exploded!

    Attachment 52595

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    Jess! Did you buy the house for that pretty pool???? LOVE IT!

    Okay so are you SURE it is plumbed backwards? I have to ask to make sure. How old is the pool and set up. HOW in the world did they plumb it BACKWARDS???????? I have to say there IS something wrong when THAT happens to those filters.

    Take and share a few shoots of your set up so our equiment experts can look at them to make sure you are on the right track. I would HATE for you to do a bunch of unneeded work.
    13k gal IG plaster; Jandy CV460 cartridge filter; Jandy Pro Series JEP2.0 variable speed ePump; Built in 2014; Taylor K-2006; Spa, Heater, LED lights, Polaris 360 cleaner, Rainbow inline chlorinator; City water

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Pool disaster

    The things people do wrong! I wonder.............has it always been like that or did someone service the equipment and got confused when they hooked it all back up. Either way NOW you have a filter that works and should not blowout any more filters! Good job!

    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Pool disaster

    Nice pool!

    Good on you figuring out the backward filters, crazier things have happened. Sounds like it was easy to fix.
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    Re: Pool disaster

    That is one beautiful pool!

    Did you ever try the extended CYA test?

    Dom
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    Re: Pool disaster

    I just follow the directions that came with the Taylor test kit. Here's the results I get-

    Date FC CC CYA pH
    7/25/2016 9.5 0 41 ppm 7.4
    7/26/2016 4.5 0 35 ppm 7.6

    Quote Originally Posted by domct203 View Post
    That is one beautiful pool!

    Did you ever try the extended CYA test?

    Dom
    13k gal IG plaster; Jandy CV460 cartridge filter; Jandy Pro Series JEP2.0 variable speed ePump; Built in 2014; Taylor K-2006; Spa, Heater, LED lights, Polaris 360 cleaner, Rainbow inline chlorinator; City water

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