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Thread: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

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    FattyLumpkin's Avatar
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    Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    Hey all - having trouble keeping my FC up despite continuing to ramp up both my pump run time and SWG %. I'm presently running 11 hours a day at 100%, and noticed a 3ppm FC loss since yesterday (not an OCLT result, and we swam yesterday).

    Anyway, my current results:

    FC 3.5
    CC 0
    CYA 80
    pH 7.6
    CH 250
    TA 100
    Salt 4000

    The pool is covered all night and any time during the day when it is not in use (which is most weekdays), yet I continue to struggle. I shocked to 25ppm (no, not to SLAM level for my CYA, so that also could be a problem, I guess).

    At this point, should I suspect an issue with the cell? I have not cleaned it this year...

    Any input would be appreciated. Thanks!
    / 24k Gal, 18x36 Freeform IG Vinyl Saltwater / Sta-Rite MPRA6E-205L 1HP Pump / Sta-Rite System:3 Cartridge Filter / IC-40 SWCG / Dolphin Nautilus Cleaner / TF-100 Test Kit w/ SpeedStir / Taylor K-1766 Salt Test /
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    You can inspect the cell but don't clean it if scale isn't present. Cleaning will shorten the life of the cell, especially if cleaned when scale is not present.

    Doing an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test is the best way to check for organics in the water consuming chlorine.
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    FattyLumpkin's Avatar
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    OK, I will do an OCLT tonight.

    Assuming that clears, though, if no scale and no lights are on the IC-40, then it's unlikely there's an issue with the SWG? Are there any other signs I can look for that might point to a faulty cell?
    / 24k Gal, 18x36 Freeform IG Vinyl Saltwater / Sta-Rite MPRA6E-205L 1HP Pump / Sta-Rite System:3 Cartridge Filter / IC-40 SWCG / Dolphin Nautilus Cleaner / TF-100 Test Kit w/ SpeedStir / Taylor K-1766 Salt Test /
    Useful Links: Recommended Levels / SLAM / FC/CYA Chart / Test Kits Compared / Edit Your Signature

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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    You can measure the clorine level from a pool return amd compare to the pool water to verify working and how much is being produced. You should also see small bubbles the the return water that are created when chlorine is produced.
    18,000 gunite pool/spa combo. Pebble tec, iaqualink rs8, cl580 filter, aquapure 1400, 400k btu lx heater, 10 solar panels, jandy 1hp, 1 1/2hp, and 2hp stealth pumps for circ, spa, waterfall

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    How old is the cell?

    11 times out of 10 when a SWG cannot "keep up" it is because of algae and organics in the pool water. For an IC40 to have all lights green and not produce chlorine is unlikely. It would give a check cell error or a salt error or the cell light wouldn't light or something.
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    FattyLumpkin's Avatar
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    @Rossterman: Thanks! I'll try that...

    @pooldv: I like your ratio of 11 out of 10. The pool was installed in 2012 by the previous homeowner, so it's 4 years old at a maximum. I've read 4-5 years as the average life of a cell -- is that accurate to you? Anyway, I'll do an OCLT and see what's going on...
    / 24k Gal, 18x36 Freeform IG Vinyl Saltwater / Sta-Rite MPRA6E-205L 1HP Pump / Sta-Rite System:3 Cartridge Filter / IC-40 SWCG / Dolphin Nautilus Cleaner / TF-100 Test Kit w/ SpeedStir / Taylor K-1766 Salt Test /
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    As suggested above, do the OCLT. At 3.5, you are below the minimum for CYA of 80 and that would increase the chance that something is growing already.

    Take a look at the chart below to help you determine run time assuming it is working optimally and there are no organics growing. This was a eye opener for me. 11 hours at 100% may not be far off depending on the FC demand you normally have. 2 to 4 is common.



    If you pass the OCLT, I would suggest that you bring your FC up to about 9 using bleach and then dial in the pump run time and SWG %. That way, if you are little low, it will stay above the minimum even if you make a mistake and set it to 0 rather than 100%. After you "dial it in", you can let it fall to your Target of 6. Right now, for me I feel more comfortable a little higher.
    Matt
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    SWG Run Time Calculator

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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    Matt, thanks a ton! Where did you grab those run times from?
    / 24k Gal, 18x36 Freeform IG Vinyl Saltwater / Sta-Rite MPRA6E-205L 1HP Pump / Sta-Rite System:3 Cartridge Filter / IC-40 SWCG / Dolphin Nautilus Cleaner / TF-100 Test Kit w/ SpeedStir / Taylor K-1766 Salt Test /
    Useful Links: Recommended Levels / SLAM / FC/CYA Chart / Test Kits Compared / Edit Your Signature

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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    It is from a calculator that I did in Excel. Link is in my signature.
    Matt
    2016 Pool Build: 12k IG Blue Granite Pebblesheen, Travertine Coping & Pavers, Pentair IntelliFlo, Intellichlor, Easytouch, Clean & Clear 320, Heliocol Solar - TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    The cells are rated for 10,000 hours of production time. There is a way to check cell life but I can't remember the secret code. Something like hold down the more button with your left eye closed and do a cartwheel. Check the manual.

    8 hours x 7 days x 16 weeks = 896 hours
    Hmmm, never actually tried to do that math before. 10 years seems higher than what we usually hear.
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by mgmoore7 View Post
    It is from a calculator that I did in Excel. Link is in my signature.
    Very cool! Thanks.
    / 24k Gal, 18x36 Freeform IG Vinyl Saltwater / Sta-Rite MPRA6E-205L 1HP Pump / Sta-Rite System:3 Cartridge Filter / IC-40 SWCG / Dolphin Nautilus Cleaner / TF-100 Test Kit w/ SpeedStir / Taylor K-1766 Salt Test /
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    Performed an OCLT last night... recorded 4 FC last evening, and 3.5 this morning. So it seems I passed that test. Think I'll take all the advice here and add some bleach to bring it up to ~9FC, and also up the run time. Just hard to imagine I'm going through 8+ FC a day -- does that not seem high for a pool covered all day that passed the OCLT? So if it is indeed too high, then I think I may not be getting the ~7 FC from my SWG and that may be the culprit. Thanks again for everyone's input.

    ---------

    Actually, I misread the calculated results. Looks like @ 11 hours run time and 100% SWG, I'd get roughly 3 FC, which seems more reasonable to burn through in a day.
    / 24k Gal, 18x36 Freeform IG Vinyl Saltwater / Sta-Rite MPRA6E-205L 1HP Pump / Sta-Rite System:3 Cartridge Filter / IC-40 SWCG / Dolphin Nautilus Cleaner / TF-100 Test Kit w/ SpeedStir / Taylor K-1766 Salt Test /
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    By keeping the pool covered all day when not in use you are not allowing the sun to help burn off the CC. I imagine your FC is trying to burn off the CC that accumulates after you swim. Try letting your pool "breathe" for a few hours and see if it makes a difference.
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    Interesting, zea. Thanks for this. Would my CC be elevated if this were occurring? It's steadily 0 (or very rarely 1) drop to bring it clear again on the chlorine test.
    / 24k Gal, 18x36 Freeform IG Vinyl Saltwater / Sta-Rite MPRA6E-205L 1HP Pump / Sta-Rite System:3 Cartridge Filter / IC-40 SWCG / Dolphin Nautilus Cleaner / TF-100 Test Kit w/ SpeedStir / Taylor K-1766 Salt Test /
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    Also, I was always under the impression that the UV consumes FC, not CC (or at least both)? Time for a refresher at Pool School for me...
    / 24k Gal, 18x36 Freeform IG Vinyl Saltwater / Sta-Rite MPRA6E-205L 1HP Pump / Sta-Rite System:3 Cartridge Filter / IC-40 SWCG / Dolphin Nautilus Cleaner / TF-100 Test Kit w/ SpeedStir / Taylor K-1766 Salt Test /
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    Yes, both consume FC. CC can be a fleeting thing. You don't always catch it in measurable amount to but it is always going on in the pool. The main reason CC can build up is in the presence of low FC where it can't burn off quickly.

    Yes, you are correct that your FC consumption will be lower with a cover than without.
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    FattyLumpkin's Avatar
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    Thanks, pooldv. I worded my question wrong: I was always under the impression that the UV consumes FC, and that the UV does *not* consume CC. Is this a true statement? Just trying to confirm if leaving the cover off during the day might improve things (it's especially hot for MA right now - low 90s).
    / 24k Gal, 18x36 Freeform IG Vinyl Saltwater / Sta-Rite MPRA6E-205L 1HP Pump / Sta-Rite System:3 Cartridge Filter / IC-40 SWCG / Dolphin Nautilus Cleaner / TF-100 Test Kit w/ SpeedStir / Taylor K-1766 Salt Test /
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    UV consumes FC and CC.
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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    hold down both buttons on the ic40 for the life meter.
    19K IG Pebbletec with attached spa. 60sqft Cartridge filter, Intelliflow VS, 399k BTU Gas Heater, Pentair IC40. Phoenix, AZ, full sun.

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    Re: Suspect Issue with SWG - Thoughts?

    I ran into a similar issue and in short, my T-CELL-9 (up to 25K) is not sufficient for my 25K pool. I ordered a generic T-CELL-15 (up to 40K) based on TFP members' recommendation (2.5 - 3 times). I even ran my cell 100% 24 hours but can't keep up in this sun (CYA of 100, too). Not sure what your CL generating capacity is (this like does not have PENTAIR - Discount Salt Pool - Compare Chlorine Generators and Chlorinators) but you may want to check.
    25,000 Gal, in-ground w/ vinyl liner
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