Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Problem with R-0870?

  1. Back To Top    #1


    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Stockton, CA
    Posts
    63

    Problem with R-0870?

    Been using this method 4-5 years. Fresh reagents from TFT this spring. When testing for FC, the color is initially deep pink. Adding R-0871 eventually turns it to pale purple; it has not gone clear in weeks. I'm guessing at the FC level, around 2.5 and adding bleach accordingly to get to 4.0. When I test for CC, I also cannot ever get the water in the test tube to go clear. I notice the test cylinder has become stained light purple. And, to my eye, the R-0870 powder is much darker than I remember in the past. I'm careful with the little spoon, and do not get it wet. My pool water is clear, no problem, but I think I'm using more bleach this year than last, even after pushing the CYA up to 40.

    I am concerned about the R-0870 reagent. Any ideas? Thanks.
    22,500 gal, in-ground, plaster, Intelliflo VS 3050 pump, Sta-Rite 400 sq. ft. cartridge filter, solar panels on roof

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Re: Problem with R-0870?

    Try testing your tap water to make sure that the test works. If it does, your fc is probably super high. Add r-0871 until the sample goes colorless.

  3. Back To Top    #3


    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Stockton, CA
    Posts
    63

    Re: Problem with R-0870?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    Try testing your tap water to make sure that the test works. If it does, your fc is probably super high. Add r-0871 until the sample goes colorless.
    Thanks for the great suggestion. We have a private residential well, with no additives. I just tested and found that after adding a scoop of R-0870, the water turned light purple, with undissolved particles floating around. I could not get it to clear after adding 20 drops of R-0871.

    I remember that when the fresh reagents arrived in the spring, R-0870 was tightly clumped, and I had to chop it apart and shake it. I believe the reagent is bad, perhaps from moisture, but ???

    I plan to take this up with TFT before ordering new FC test kit, which, BTW, is cheaper on Amazon. TFT shipping costs are outrageous.
    22,500 gal, in-ground, plaster, Intelliflo VS 3050 pump, Sta-Rite 400 sq. ft. cartridge filter, solar panels on roof

  4. Back To Top    #4

    In the Industry
    OTPirate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Creedmoor, NC
    Posts
    988

    Re: Problem with R-0870?

    I just sent you an email, but let me send you some new R-0870 and R-0871. The powder will clump and darken if exposed to moisture, but it still works. Mine is gray, and I still use it. I will send you some fresh powder.
    As far as the shipping costs, I understand and have done things like offering free shipping for purchases over $100 (I set that amount because our most popular combination, a TF-100 test kit and Speedstir is at $105). We do not "pad" our shipping charges. I wish I could compete with Amazon, but we are just too small right now. Please email me at tftestkits@gmail and I will help you the best I can. Rebecca

  5. Back To Top    #5
    TheBraLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Concord, NC
    Posts
    176

    Re: Problem with R-0870?

    Shipping for a small business is absolutely nuts. I have been in business for 11 years and at first I could ship my products out (less than a pound packages - shoe box sized, USPS Priority mail) for $4.95. Today the same package costs me $6.45 to ship - and that's a "local zone" price!

    Sounds like TFT is trying hard to keep your business. Shop small!
    Pool Completed 8/2015 18'x36' Gemini shape 3.5' - 8', 19,200 gal IG vinyl, Hayward Max-Flo 1.5 HP 2-speed pump, Hayward Pro Series 300-lb sand filter, Hayward AquaPlus SWG, NO Autofill, Dolphin M400 robot, Taylor 2005 test kit, 434 gal Bullfrog A7L spa

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Problem with R-0870?

    The color that you're getting is odd. Maybe something related to your water is causing interference. Does your water contain manganese or do you use a manganese greensand filter?

    Get some bottled water and see if the 0870 causes the same reaction. Then, add 1 drop of bleach to a quart of the bottled water, mix well and test that to see if the test works.

    Also, try an oto chlorine test on your pool water to see what that shows.

    And try this: Fill test vial to 10 ml with tap water, add 1 drop r-0007 (thiosulfate), swirl for 10 seconds and then add r-0870 to see if it still goes purple.

    Then try 10 ml tap water, add 3 drops r-0012 (edta), swirl for 10 seconds then add the 0870 powder to see if you're getting the purple.

    Then try 10ml tap water, 5 drops r-0003 (iodide) swirl for 10 seconds and then add the 0870 powder to see if you still get purple.

    Then try 10 ml pool water, add 5 drops r-0871, swirl for 10 seconds, add the 0870 powder and then add 0871 until clear.

    I know that it's a lot of tests but I don't think that it's a problem with the reagents. The above tests should give a path forward.

    The reason for the tests:

    The bottled water test is to see if the color is specific to your pool/fill water or if itís related to the reagent. If no reaction to bottled water, then there is probably something related to your water that is causing interference. Taylor indicates that oxidized manganese may cause positive interference.

    Potential Interferences

    Since you have a well, I suspect that that is the most likely interference.

    1 drop of regular 8.25% bleach in 1 liter of water will raise the fc by about 4.2 ppm. If the powder does not cause a purple reaction in bottled water, then the reagents can be verified by testing a solution with a drop or two of bleach in a liter of bottled water.

    The OTO test should give you a good reading.

    I suspect that the purple is interfering with your ability to discern a true endpoint. Since you now know that the purple is in there, you might be able to discern the end of the red when only the purple is left.

    The thiosulfate test should help determine if the interfering agent is an oxidizer.

    The edta is a sequestrant, and can sequester manganese.

    The iodide can possibly reduce oxidized manganese. The test would then give only the total chlorine.

  7. Back To Top    #7


    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Stockton, CA
    Posts
    63

    Re: Problem with R-0870?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    The color that you're getting is odd. Maybe something related to your water is causing interference. Does your water contain manganese or do you use a manganese greensand filter? Nothing bad in the well water that we know of; no filters on the fill water

    Get some bottled water and see if the 0870 causes the same reaction. distilled water=light purple; Then, add 1 drop of bleach to a quart of the bottled water, mix well and test that to see if the test works. Not enough distilled water

    Also, try an oto chlorine test on your pool water to see what that shows. Yellow, 2-3 ppm

    And try this: Fill test vial to 10 ml with tap water, add 1 drop r-0007 (thiosulfate), swirl for 10 seconds and then add r-0870 to see if it still goes purple. Purple, cloudy

    Then try 10 ml tap water, add 3 drops r-0012 (edta), swirl for 10 seconds then add the 0870 powder to see if you're getting the purple. Purple, cloudy

    Then try 10ml tap water, 5 drops r-0003 (iodide) swirl for 10 seconds and then add the 0870 powder to see if you still get purple. Purple, cloudy

    Then try 10 ml pool water, add 5 drops r-0871, swirl for 10 seconds, add the 0870 powder and then add 0871 until clear. Purple, did not clear

    I know that it's a lot of tests but I don't think that it's a problem with the reagents. The above tests should give a path forward.

    The reason for the tests:

    The bottled water test is to see if the color is specific to your pool/fill water or if itís related to the reagent. If no reaction to bottled water, then there is probably something related to your water that is causing interference. Taylor indicates that oxidized manganese may cause positive interference.

    Potential Interferences

    Since you have a well, I suspect that that is the most likely interference.

    1 drop of regular 8.25% bleach in 1 liter of water will raise the fc by about 4.2 ppm. If the powder does not cause a purple reaction in bottled water, then the reagents can be verified by testing a solution with a drop or two of bleach in a liter of bottled water.

    The OTO test should give you a good reading.

    I suspect that the purple is interfering with your ability to discern a true endpoint. Since you now know that the purple is in there, you might be able to discern the end of the red when only the purple is left.

    The thiosulfate test should help determine if the interfering agent is an oxidizer.

    The edta is a sequestrant, and can sequester manganese.

    The iodide can possibly reduce oxidized manganese. The test would then give only the total chlorine.
    JamesW,

    Thanks; at first I thought your advice was nuts, and that I did not have the reagents. Sorry. My results are above. In the end, it appears that all water I put R-0870 into gets purple. I can sort of tell in doing the routine FC test when it turns from pinkish to purple, and that is confirmed out by the OTO test. Also, the little purple/black granules are adhering to the wall of the test vial, and I'm having to soak with dilute muriatic acid to clear it up.

    I added liquid stabilizer in small increments over the last month or so, because the CYA was near 0 after a partial drain/refill. CYA is now around 40+. I don't imagine this is at all related.

    TFT has offered to send me a new batch of R-0870 and R-0871; very gracious of them. I have never had this problem since adopting the TFP method 4-5 years ago. Thanks for your advice.

    Jerry
    22,500 gal, in-ground, plaster, Intelliflo VS 3050 pump, Sta-Rite 400 sq. ft. cartridge filter, solar panels on roof

  8. Back To Top    #8


    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Stockton, CA
    Posts
    63

    Re: Problem with R-0870?

    Quote Originally Posted by OTPirate View Post
    I just sent you an email, but let me send you some new R-0870 and R-0871. The powder will clump and darken if exposed to moisture, but it still works. Mine is gray, and I still use it. I will send you some fresh powder.
    As far as the shipping costs, I understand and have done things like offering free shipping for purchases over $100 (I set that amount because our most popular combination, a TF-100 test kit and Speedstir is at $105). We do not "pad" our shipping charges. I wish I could compete with Amazon, but we are just too small right now. Please email me at tftestkits@gmail and I will help you the best I can. Rebecca
    Thanks for your timely reply, and generous offer to replace the test reagents. Also, my apologies for misreading the shipping costs. I had another look, and find them to be very competitive, at least when using USPS. I've bought test material from you since 2010, and plan to continue.
    Jerry
    22,500 gal, in-ground, plaster, Intelliflo VS 3050 pump, Sta-Rite 400 sq. ft. cartridge filter, solar panels on roof

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Problem with R-0870?

    Ok, looks like a bad reagent. Hopefully, the new reagents will work OK. I found this:

    R-0870 DPD Powder: As it degrades, the color will turn from an off-white color to gray or purple-gray and will gradually become a purple- brown color.

    http://www.taylortechnologies.com/pr...Shelf-Life.pdf

    https://www.taylortechnologies.com/C...SP?ContentID=2

  10. Back To Top    #10


    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Stockton, CA
    Posts
    63

    Re: Problem with R-0870?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    Ok, looks like a bad reagent. Hopefully, the new reagents will work OK. I found this:
    Interesting, but Taylor does net mention any functional interference with the test, or staining/etching the plastic test vials. Thanks for your interest; I'll post a follow-up after trying the new reagents. In the meantime, I'll just use OTO. I'm very poor at matching colors, but the results seem to align with the FAS/DPD method.
    22,500 gal, in-ground, plaster, Intelliflo VS 3050 pump, Sta-Rite 400 sq. ft. cartridge filter, solar panels on roof

  11. Back To Top    #11


    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Stockton, CA
    Posts
    63

    Re: Problem with R-0870?

    Rebecca, from TFT test kits and promptly sent me replacements for the FC reagents, R-0870 and R-0871. The replacement reagents arrived yesterday. The powder is virtually pure white. I have not seen it like this in prior shipments. I tested the pool water this AM. The powder dissolved immediately, and completely, when added to the pool water. The color was a bright pink; after adding 9 drops of R-0871, the water cleared completely, giving a FC of 4.5. An OTO test read about 5. The CC was 0. There was no purple at all, and there were no bits of black or purple granules left after rinsing the vial. Here is a link showing the results this AM.

    [URL="https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B4DC5cuN4V7KQ09oNHlhc1h2VGs"]

    So, it appears that the R-0870 powder was the source of the problem. As I mentioned earlier, the original powder from March 2016 was nearly solid on arrival, and was very dark. I appreciate how quickly TFT responded to my issue, and sent out the new reagents. I've used their products since 2010, and will continue. Their customer service has been excellent.

    Problem solved!
    22,500 gal, in-ground, plaster, Intelliflo VS 3050 pump, Sta-Rite 400 sq. ft. cartridge filter, solar panels on roof

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Problem with R-0870?

    Just opening my pool and tried to do my FC test. I put in several scoops of R-0870 and it stays clear. It has been inside all winter and I believe I purchased this last spring. Think the reagent is bad? Not sure what to do since its sunnier today and will take days to get more R-0870
    17x33 inground vinyl pool, 22,000 gallons, 1 1/2 hp hayward pump, Hayward systemII DE filter with chlorinator, north central pennsylvania, heater

  13. Back To Top    #13

    TFP Guide
    Mr Bruce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Posts
    1,798

    Re: Problem with R-0870?

    It's more likely you have 0 FC. You can use the OTO (yellow drop test) to confirm.
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Problem with R-0870?

    Ughhh...of course that's it. Sorry after the pool being closed 8 months takes a while to wrap my brain around the chemicals again. Back to pool school!
    17x33 inground vinyl pool, 22,000 gallons, 1 1/2 hp hayward pump, Hayward systemII DE filter with chlorinator, north central pennsylvania, heater

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •