Concerns about my concrete floor in pool

[Sparker]

I could really use advice before more progress occurs. Dig finished June 30th. After many days of rain, crew showed up 12 days later to pour the concrete floors into 3 separate sections. Also poured the footers that the concrete walls will set on.

They did not regrade the soil nor compact it. Each shallow end was poured. The middle was too wet, so it was left alone. I showed up after the pour began. I noticed they did not regrade, compact the ground or use any rebar. The slabs and footer are 4 inches thick.

I do not have a good feeling about this. I fear the concrete slabs will crack once the ground shifts or the weight of the water puts tension on the slab that is sitting on loose soil. I don't know if I'm over reacting or if this feeling is likely to be right??

Last week I asked the builder to come check his crews work, and expressed my concerns. He still has not been over to look at it. He said not to worry in a round about way. I thought all concrete should be reinforced?????

Are the footers thick enough.....should they be 8 inches thick instead of 4"?

Since then.....I've noticed that water runs steadily from under one of the slabs towards the middle when it rains (on the left side of the slab only) My fear is the ground is eroding under the slab .

I want to tell him to rip it all up, regrade and compact the soil, lay rebar and repour?

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[duraleigh]

Is your pool really concrete or is it gunite? Got any pics? What does your PB say about your concerns?

 

[Sparker]

My pool is suppose to be vinyl with concrete walls/floors. I honestly do not know if it is gunite. They said the concrete has a psi of 4000. My pool guy is actually a concrete company. I know for a fact that he knows how to pour it correctly. He has done work for the government at the naval base. Unfortunately, my county doesn't require permits. My town has no zoning laws. So I don't know if he's trying to do improper/ cheaper practices. He said (last Monday) when I asked for him to come look.... "If its messed up I'll fix it.....but trust me, it will be beautiful just like the ones I've done before.....I'll have someone there tomorrow to look at it" It was nice sunny, and no one has shown up at all this week. It was to be completed 2 days from now. However, I want quality over a fast build. He has never been to my house personally since signing of the contract 6 weeks ago. I've asked for him to check his crews work.... But nope. I feel like I have to pull teeth for any communication about how he plans to construct my pool.

 

[Sparker]

View attachment 52473

This is 3 days before they poured. They poured on top of this without doing any thing to this pic.

 

[pooldv]

Did you check their references? Look at some pools that have been installed for a few years? There must be some reasons why you selected this builder, why so much second guessing now?

Compacting should not be necessary because the hole should be dug to undisturbed soil. Was it back filled? Why do you think it needs to be compacted?

 

[Sparker]

View attachment 52474

 

[Sparker]

I did personally visit his last build site. Maybe you're right it doesn't need to be compacted. I don't know.... that's why I'm asking. I guess I'm worried because the soil has been in the rain so much for 12 days leading up to the pour. And my builder mentioned it will need to be regraded. But his crew did not.

Did you check their references? Look at some pools that have been installed for a few years? There must be some reasons why you selected this builder, why so much second guessing now?

Compacting should not be necessary because the hole should be dug to undisturbed soil. Was it back filled? Why do you think it needs to be compacted?

 

[Sparker]

Does anyone know if the concrete should have rebar?

 

[dw9000]

I did a vermiculite floor, but I do have a 16x50 foot concrete deck that does not have any rebar in it, its only 12 mths old, but no cracks at all. They did grade it & put down stone & compacted.
How long before you expect to have the walls up and liner put in? I ask this because if your not installing the liner until next spring, You'll be able to keep a close eye on the floor.

In my opinion, I think you'll be ok. Not sure if you are going to put a pad down on the concrete floor? That would make it better on the feet & liner, and might also prevent any rips if you did get some slight cracks in the floor.

 

[Sparker]

I've been told that the middle needs to dry out before they can pour it. Then the walls will be poured. The liner would take about ten days to arrive after its all measured for a good fit. We have been at a stand still because of the middle getting rain every other day. Or it gets dry by Sunday.... Then rains again on Monday and the wait starts all over. I asked about the padding on the floor. They said they weren't using it. My thinking was like yours. Thank you for your response!

I did a vermiculite floor, but I do have a 16x50 foot deck that does not have any rebar in it, its only 12 mths old, but no cracks at all. They did grade it & put down stone & compacted.
How long before you expect to have the walls up and liner put in? I ask this because if your not installing the liner until next spring, You'll be able to keep a close eye on the floor.

In my opinion, I think you'll be ok. Not sure if you are going to put a pad down on the concrete floor? That would make it better on the feet & liner, and might also prevent any rips if you did get some slight cracks in the floor.

 

[Sparker]

Update: I had 3 different concrete companies and an engineer all saying that the concrete footers needed to be 8 inches thick....not 4 like I have. And rebar should have been installed. I asked my builder if we could do that. He was offended and suggested we end our contract. He said he doesn't need my business. So, now I'm left with this huge hole in my yard.

 

[dw9000]

So you are saying you don't have any footers? The floor is 4" and that's it? Could they have dug out the perimeter footer, and poured the sections (floor and footer) together? If you don't have any footer other than the 4" floor I think you'll have to have it torn up.
.... Sorry, I reread your original post - I see you said 4" floor and footer. That is not thick enough to carry concrete walls, as you now know.

 

[Sparker]

That is correct. Only 4 inches. I asked for him to rip it out, make the footers atleast 8 inches with rebar . He refuses. And doesn't want to continue. I seriously can't believe this. I don't think my request is unreasonable. So now I'm left with just filling it back in, and hoping next year another pool company will take the job. Still working on getting my money back. My other option is to go it alone and build it. I dont think Im that brave lol. QUOTE=dw9000;1105782]So you are saying you don't have any footers? The floor is 4" and that's it? Could they have dug out the perimeter footer, and poured the sections (floor and footer) together? If you don't have any footer other than the 4" floor I think you'll have to have it torn up.
.... Sorry, I reread your original post - I see you said 4" floor and footer. That is not thick enough to carry concrete walls, as you now know.
[/QUOTE]

 

[dw9000]

That is a bummer, I got took about $6k on my build. Not something I am proud of, but certainly a lesson learned. I had a hard time getting a concrete guy, they didn't want to bother with pools,, they had enough work with sidewalks, driveways, and government work. So I see where you are at. Wish you the best.

 

[borjis]

wow..

Was none of that disclosed on the paperwork / planning before the build started?

 

[gwegan]

So he quit on you? Have you paid him?

He was going to pour the walls on top of 4 inch thick footers? That can be OK it depends on the soil. Or was it block? Generally footers are larger than the wall.

Are there plans or drawings?

 

[gwegan]

So he quit on you? Have you paid him?

He was going to pour the walls on top of 4 inch thick footers? That can be OK it depends on the soil. Or was it block? Generally footers are larger than the wall.

Are there plans or drawings?

You should read this thread: An unusual pool build

 

[Sparker]

I feel like a fool. I signed the contract, and 1/3rd was due at signing. There were no plans or drawings. I blindly trusted he knew what he was doing. When I questioned him about the footers, he said I offended him, and if I didn't trust him...he would walk away from the job, because he didn't need my business. I emailed him later that night and said I would feel better if the footers were thicker, and if we could rip out the concrete (about $600 worth including labor/delivery) and start over.

If not, I was going to take him up on his offer for us to part ways. I told him I'd have my lawyer send him a recession letter for us to get out of our contract. He replied the next morning, by saying he wanted the papers drawn up. The recession letter states what I'm to pay him for work done, and how much is to be refunded to me. He's to bring a certified check when he comes to sign the documents.

I'm giving him some time to let his lawyer look it over first (if he has one). I have a feeling my money is spent, and his business is going under. However, it seems as his company is a sole proprietorship. At least I have the means to get it back if he goes under.

Dave did an amazing job on his pool!! Mine was not block. It was a concrete form pour. I have clay soil down where the footers would be. I don't know if that would have been good or bad.

Thank you all for your advice... Not how I imagined this to go at all.

So he quit on you? Have you paid him?

He was going to pour the walls on top of 4 inch thick footers? That can be OK it depends on the soil. Or was it block? Generally footers are larger than the wall.

Are there plans or drawings?

You should read this thread: An unusual pool build

 

[Sparker]

With regards to the soil being conducive to the 4 inch footers....what about clay?? I trusted the engineer and 3 other concrete contractors that all independently said they should be atleast 8".

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I'm sorry to hear that. Not a good feeling, and yes, if I try this again I will be more cautious for sure.

That is a bummer, I got took about $6k on my build. Not something I am proud of, but certainly a lesson learned. I had a hard time getting a concrete guy, they didn't want to bother with pools,, they had enough work with sidewalks, driveways, and government work. So I see where you are at. Wish you the best.

 

[gwegan]

I wanted you to see Daves because it shows his footers and walls. Block is actually a bit lighter than poured in place walls.

Also he built the walls first the the floor.

I can't recall anyone doing floor first.