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Thread: New build - Buffalo NY

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    New build - Buffalo NY

    My wife and I agreed long ago we weren't pool people.

    3 kids later we're now pool people so we're taking the plunge and putting in a pool(freeform gunite)

    I've been reading every build thread for the past month or so and I think we have what we like but still have a few questions.

    1. sun shelf depth, we have a large sun shelf(8ft x 12ft) and I have no idea what depth to put it at.

    2. Jump area for the kids. I think this would be awesome, my wife doesn't care so right now it's in the plans to have 3 levels, first step is 4ft long and 12" raised, middle step would be 4ft long and 18" raised and then back down to 12" x4ft with a shear waterfall on the middle tier. Kids are 6, 4, 1, will they use this to jump off of?

    I'll have plans and pics later.

    Thanks

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    HI! Thanks for letting us help spend your money! LOL

    -sun shelf-----first ask yourself what you think you will use the shelf for? Do you want to sit on it and hang your feet off the side? Do you want to put chairs or loungers on it? If so do you want your fanny in or out of the water? Is it for the kids to play on?

    Once you think about those questions get back with us and we can help you work your way to how deep it should be.

    Jump area-can you please show us pics of what you are thinking of? A hand drawing would work to help us see what you are thinking of. I THINK I know but want to make sure.

    You will LOVE having a pool with the kids now and in the future!

    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit, Become a TFP supporter!

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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY



    That's the current design. My PB is old school, no fancy design software like I've seen others post.

    Looking for feedback on stairs and benches, I have the freedom of doing anything inside the pool with no additional cost according to my PB.

    kimkats,

    no chairs or loungers on the sun shelf, more for putting feet in and for the little ones that can't swim well yet.

    I'll draw up the jump area later today or see if I can find an appropriate pic.

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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    Thoughts on the sunshelf from a new pool owner: we went with 12-inches, and its just a little bit too deep to keep the rear end dry in a cheapo plastic chair, and too shallow to submerge legs. Probably should have gone with 9". Or maybe I need to find new chairs
    My Pool Build (2015): inground 12K gals gunite/plaster pool, SWG, 2-speed pump, cartridge filter, gas heater, and polaris cleaner (Jandy). TF-100 Test Kit w/ Speed Stir

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    Nothing wrong with old school say this old school lady! LOL

    Tell me what the three 4' blocks are? to the right of the skimmer.

    Where is the house in relation to the pool?

    How deep are the different parts of the pool?

    Can you take and share where the pool will be going? That helps us a LOT! I will put the call out to the others that love to play with designs!

    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit, Become a TFP supporter!

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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    Here's a satellite view, gray line is existing fence



    Ideally it'd be right behind the house so we could sit on the covered patio and watch the kids swim but that leaves us with no backyard, pushing it over to the side allows us to have the pool and keep as much yard as possible.

    Due to HOA rules the shed must be behind the house line(not visible from street) otherwise I think we'd have a few more options.

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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    I don't know how accurate this is since it was only based off the images you posted. The pool is to scale with your drawing and yard (if the fence location was close to correct).

    Be careful, Kim has expensive taste...

    What are the 4' square things in his drawing?



    -Brian-
    33K In ground Pool/Spa, IntelliFlo, IntelliChlor SWG, Easytouch, ScreenLogic, MasterTemp 400, Quad 100, IntelliPH, MiniPebble, Dolphin Z5, POOL BUILD

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    Brian in for the win already!


    I like the pool being off to the side like that for the very reason you are doing it. Yard and play space!

    This will be a fun one to work on!

    Can't wait to hear back on the questions.

    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit, Become a TFP supporter!

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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    Wow! That's excellent Brian!
    Marla
    No longer living vicariously through other people's pool builds. Pool build is complete on my IG SWCG pool, approx 10,000 gallons. All Jandy equipment - VS 1.5 hp pump, 580 cartridge filter, AquaPure 1400 salt cell, AquaLink PDA system. Dolphin m500. PebbleSheen Blue Surf with shells and beads added. TF-100 w/ SpeedStir. A Houston Pool Build Inside the Loop

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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    Amazing work Brian. Here are some shots of the backyard and where we're planning the pool. The pool will be surrounded with stamped concrete that matches the sidewalk shown in the pictures.




    I've started breaking down the swingset to get it moved to the other side of the yard


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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    The 3 blocks labeled 4' are the jump points for the kids, each level is 4ft long, first level 12in high, 2nd level 18in high with a shear, 3rd level back to 12in

    Similar to pic below but more stretched out. It will be faced with waterline tile and the top will be formed concrete.



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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    Ah, that makes sense now. I'll update the design a little later
    -Brian-
    33K In ground Pool/Spa, IntelliFlo, IntelliChlor SWG, Easytouch, ScreenLogic, MasterTemp 400, Quad 100, IntelliPH, MiniPebble, Dolphin Z5, POOL BUILD

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    That is going to be the purrfect spot for the pool!

    LOVE your walkway! NICE touch on the stamping!

    Good luck moving that monster! We have helped build some of those over the years..........not fun until we see the kid's smiles when they play on them.

    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit, Become a TFP supporter!

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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    Another question(several layers)

    Heat pump vs gas heater

    My thoughts

    I'm in the northeast, I'd like to open the pool in may, close in october. I'd like to keep the pool at 80-85 degrees.

    My neighbor has a gas heater(also has a spa) and he loves it, heats the water fast when he needs it.

    Most of the PB's I met with pushed the heat pump, the electrical part of the installation is much easier(gas is on the opposite side of the house and I have a finished basement so running the 1" line would be difficult)

    Quotes I'm getting, heat pump 4k, gas heater $2600 assuming I run the supply line myself across the basement(not a job I'm excited about but could do)

    The PB I've almost selected(nothing signed yet) is recommending the Pentair Ultratemp 90(2nd place PB is recommending the Pentair 110) Pool calculator says the pool will be about 20k gallons and recommends the 120.

    I'm concerned in the early/late season the heat pump is going to struggle.

    Help

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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    Are you on gas or propane? What are the rates?

    What are your electrical rates?

    Gas is almost always cheaper unless you are running propane. Gas also heats much faster. I would expect close to 2 degrees per hour with a Raypak 406A in your 20K pool. A gas heater will heat the pool regardless of air temperature.

    Heat pumps draw a significant amount of energy so if your rates are high, then this option should be eliminated. Heat will be very slow, perhaps just a few degrees per day. HPs are also very reliant on air temperature. The higher the temp and humidity, the more efficient the HP. The HPs lose nearly all heating capability below 60 degrees ambient air temperature.

    HPs are ideal for maintaining temperature and can be very efficient at it.

    A 1" gasline is very small for a large pool heater unless the run is very short. You'd be much better off to run a 1-1/2" or even a 2" gasline unless the utility company is planning to add a second meter/reducer for the heater.
    -Brian-
    33K In ground Pool/Spa, IntelliFlo, IntelliChlor SWG, Easytouch, ScreenLogic, MasterTemp 400, Quad 100, IntelliPH, MiniPebble, Dolphin Z5, POOL BUILD

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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    Hi lumpy! Kim pointed me to your thread! This part is fun AND stressful wanting to get it just right. Lol. I think the location you picked is perfect. I wouldn't want to take up all of the yard space either.

    I have 6 year twins and lots of friends with young children. We built a large sunshelf with bubblers for them to play on and they just got to play for the first time yesterday. It was a blast and I wouldn't change a thing about our shelf. It's 9" deep and 104 square feet. We can fit at least 2 lounge chairs on it, maybe 3, but it is an amazing play space without chairs. Even us adults were loving it surprisingly. My kids spent most of their time on the shelf and running around the spa yesterday so if you have littles I recommend a good sized shelf and 9" turned out to be an excellent depth. I was warned the bubblers may not bubble enough but they were awesome once we split the flow of water from the sheers.

    My pool also has a staircase with low rise steps, lots of benches, and a built in table if you want to check it out and see some other potential features. I'll be updating it with new pictures as soon as I catch up on all the builds I'm following. Tapatalk wasn't working and now I'm a day behind. So much fun!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Started 5/31/16. 38'x23', 618 sqft., <14,000 gallons, 8' spa.Travertine coping. Raised beam w/3 sheers. Large sunshelf w/3 bubblers. SWG IC40, Pentair VSP, 520 cartridge, color LED lights, Easy-touch, screen logic, Maytronics S300i robot, and Wet Edge Prism Matrix finish (Deep Sea Blue with Indigo plaster). Build Thread: Another in Texas - Cypress Texas | MUD District | HOA Approval | Great Escapes Pools

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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    Quote Originally Posted by lumpy19 View Post
    The 3 blocks labeled 4' are the jump points for the kids, each level is 4ft long, first level 12in high, 2nd level 18in high with a shear, 3rd level back to 12in

    Similar to pic below but more stretched out. It will be faced with waterline tile and the top will be formed concrete.


    lumpy19,

    You may want to check with your homeowners insurance company regarding the jump points. I have a simple 9" high dive rock and several companies have refused to give me a quote because of it. they consider it to be similar to a diving board. Other insurance companies may charge you extra for it.
    Free-form concrete walls with vinyl liner, 18,000 gallon capacity, Jandy 1.5HP e-Pump, Jandy DEV48 DE filter (using cellulose media), Jandy AE2500 heat pump, Jandy Aqualink Power Center with 14-blade cell kit and Jandy PDA-P8 wireless control system.

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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY





    -Brian-
    33K In ground Pool/Spa, IntelliFlo, IntelliChlor SWG, Easytouch, ScreenLogic, MasterTemp 400, Quad 100, IntelliPH, MiniPebble, Dolphin Z5, POOL BUILD

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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    Quote Originally Posted by bdavis466 View Post
    Are you on gas or propane? What are the rates?

    What are your electrical rates?

    Gas is almost always cheaper unless you are running propane. Gas also heats much faster. I would expect close to 2 degrees per hour with a Raypak 406A in your 20K pool. A gas heater will heat the pool regardless of air temperature.

    Heat pumps draw a significant amount of energy so if your rates are high, then this option should be eliminated. Heat will be very slow, perhaps just a few degrees per day. HPs are also very reliant on air temperature. The higher the temp and humidity, the more efficient the HP. The HPs lose nearly all heating capability below 60 degrees ambient air temperature.

    HPs are ideal for maintaining temperature and can be very efficient at it.

    A 1" gasline is very small for a large pool heater unless the run is very short. You'd be much better off to run a 1-1/2" or even a 2" gasline unless the utility company is planning to add a second meter/reducer for the heater.
    I don't know my exact rates, I'm on natural gas and pay about $50/month, about $100 month electric

    I'm meeting with the PB tomorrow and I'm going to push for gas unless he can explain to me why he loves the heat pump so much.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by poolneophyte View Post
    lumpy19,

    You may want to check with your homeowners insurance company regarding the jump points. I have a simple 9" high dive rock and several companies have refused to give me a quote because of it. they consider it to be similar to a diving board. Other insurance companies may charge you extra for it.
    I did check with them, good heads up though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Amazing renders Brian, thanks so much. My wife and I are trying to figure out how to connect the pool with the patio and also have a fence to protect the little ones. I love coming off the corner of the patio, everything we've been sketching has been off the sidewalk.

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    Re: New build - Buffalo NY

    Throw some ideas at me...I'm shooting from the hip here
    -Brian-
    33K In ground Pool/Spa, IntelliFlo, IntelliChlor SWG, Easytouch, ScreenLogic, MasterTemp 400, Quad 100, IntelliPH, MiniPebble, Dolphin Z5, POOL BUILD

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