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Thread: Silver based algaecides

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Silver based algaecides

    I have run into a couple of reports of using silver based algaecides to deal with persistent mustard algae after other procedures had failed and to kill black algae.

    Silver based algaecides, like Silvertrene, are expensive and difficult to find. The cost alone argues against using silver based products for anything but the most extreme situations.

    I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on using a silver based algaecide for dealing with black algae, which can be rather difficult to kill. Traditional methods of killing black algae are either very time consuming, or expensive, or both and don't always work. If a silver based algaecide works for black algae, it could be worth the expense.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Silver based algaecides

    My limited experiece with them is that they are about as effective as copper and present just as much as a staining problem. However, silver stains are forever!
    When ingested it even makes people blue! Just do a search on colloidial silver and on argyria.

    Heck, when you read enough it makes you wonder just how safe silver ion and mineral systems are!

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    Chasville's Avatar
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    Re: Silver based algaecides

    I have an ionization system = Floatron, that is supposed to put both silver and copper ions into the water.
    I still get some black algae.
    I would expect that to kill black algae requires an intensely concentrated poison.
    I have defeated the black algae with direct application of shock powder such that it sits on the spot for a while, after having already scrubbed the spots as much as practical (it if were "possible" i'd have spent hours not minutes scrubbing to no better effect).
    The problem with the method is the area on the lower side wall of the deep end where the shock can't sit there, but will settle its way down to the main drain. For that, I'm going to have to try the custom puck eraser I saw in another post.
    In any case, the only residual over time is some acid or extra calcium. The actual poison, the chlorine, will leave the system as it gases out or filters out via organic attachment.

    So, I would agree with Waterbear that a concentrated silver algaeside solution could probably cause more problems than it solves in order to be effective. It's the same reasoning why I don't use a liquid copper based algaeside. If I have to use poison, it's straight bleach, or shock. And if I were to stop using the Floatron, I'd simply use straight bleach to maintain an appropriate residual FC level.
    21k IG : Hayward Perflex EC65A DE Filter + 1.4 THP Northstar pump : Aquabot Turbo T2 : DelZone Eclipse-4 Ozonator : Floatron Ionizer : Some chlorine
    Pool cover an elephant can stand on. Painted concrete base or shell, with fiberglass upper side walls, and plastic/vinyl rim. Concrete deck.

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    Re: Silver based algaecides

    There is absolutely NO difference between the copper and silver ions in your water from the floatron (which is a piece of junk) and copper and/or silver introduced by mineral systems or liquid algaecides. Without a residual sanitizer you do NOT have sanitized water and that is the reason you are getting black algae.
    alternative-sanitizers-and-chemical-free-pools-the-truth-t3025.html

    You might want to do some checking on the APVMA (Australian equivalent of the EPA) and their actions against the Floatron. It is very interesting reading.
    http://www.apvma.gov.au/archive/gazette0406p25.shtml
    Here is a quote from the 2004 recall of the units (which are only sold in Australia now for Koi Ponds to keep algae at bay)
    "Floatron

    The product is not registered under the Agvet Codes. Additionally the APVMA is not satisfied, based on current scientific evidence, that this product is effective for the control of disease causing microorganisms that can readily grow or be transmitted in pools and spas. "


    If only our own EPA was do diligent at protecting our health instead of the interests of businesses

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    Chasville's Avatar
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    Re: Silver based algaecides

    To have enough copper and/or silver in the water to kill the black algae would probably be too high to be "safe" and would most probably cause staining.

    The copper level I am keeping is enough to prevent an algae bloom in conjunction with the ozone.

    My wife and I are the principle users of the pool, with vary occassional use by others. We had two families last weekend due to the very high temperatures on Saturday. I expect it will be a rather long time before we have anyone else in the pool. If the pool was used more often, I probably would maintain a residual chlorine level to keep it more sanitary.

    Actually, the principle user right now is the frog.

    Waterbear, if you're in Florida and I'm in North Carolina, is there some place I can take a water sample to get it more thoroughly tested for non-normal pool stuff, like bacteria? How would I find a way to get the water run through a mass spectrometer to identify all the stuff in it?
    21k IG : Hayward Perflex EC65A DE Filter + 1.4 THP Northstar pump : Aquabot Turbo T2 : DelZone Eclipse-4 Ozonator : Floatron Ionizer : Some chlorine
    Pool cover an elephant can stand on. Painted concrete base or shell, with fiberglass upper side walls, and plastic/vinyl rim. Concrete deck.

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    Ohm_Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Silver based algaecides

    Copper. Silver. Magic wands. Sheesh.

    Unfortunately, even some governmental agencies are pushing 'alternative' sanitizing methods as more 'green', and seem to be trying hard to move people away from chlorine as an ecological benefit.
    Back in 1997-1998, when I first ran across Ben Powell's website, he was flying in the face of conventional wisdom by telling the world that there was a relationship between CYA and chlorine effectiveness, that copper (not chlorine) caused the green stains, that most every method of pool sanitization besides chlorine was problematic, wasteful and/or ineffectual, and that bleach was the least intrusive chlorinator. I recall that he caught flak from industry experts from all over the globe for his 'radical' thinking. Now, 11 or 12 years later, much of what Ben discovered has been proven, yet so much has remained the same... there are still so many 'miracle products' designed to fix all the shortcomings of chlorine, as it were, and so much of the conventional water industry authority still doesn't seem to get it. Good ol' bleach is so wrongly maligned in this world.

    And still, the copper, the silver, the minerals, the ozone, the N2, the 'whatever' not only won't go away, it's getting agency recommendations. At least Australia seems to have a grasp.

    I think I'm going to develop a boiler system to sanitize the water by bringing it to a boil for a couple of minutes and flash-cooling it to desired temperature. It'll have the added benefit of eliminating the solar and natural gas pool heaters, and give the pool owner a means to customize their temps. I'm thinking of using a somewhat small nuclear reactor and and a couple of ammonia compressors...

    Sorry. I'm done now.
    [/RantMode = Off]
    [center:1kpalu48]Helpful Links: Pool School | CYA/Chlorine Chart | Pool Calculator[/center:1kpalu48]

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Silver based algaecides

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohm_Boy
    Copper. Silver. Magic wands. Sheesh.

    Unfortunately, even some governmental agencies are pushing 'alternative' sanitizing methods as more 'green', and seem to be trying hard to move people away from chlorine as an ecological benefit.
    Back in 1997-1998, when I first ran across Ben Powell's website, he was flying in the face of conventional wisdom by telling the world that there was a relationship between CYA and chlorine effectiveness, that copper (not chlorine) caused the green stains, that most every method of pool sanitization besides chlorine was problematic, wasteful and/or ineffectual, and that bleach was the least intrusive chlorinator. I recall that he caught flak from industry experts from all over the globe for his 'radical' thinking. Now, 11 or 12 years later, much of what Ben discovered has been proven, yet so much has remained the same... there are still so many 'miracle products' designed to fix all the shortcomings of chlorine, as it were, and so much of the conventional water industry authority still doesn't seem to get it. Good ol' bleach is so wrongly maligned in this world.

    And still, the copper, the silver, the minerals, the ozone, the N2, the 'whatever' not only won't go away, it's getting agency recommendations. At least Australia seems to have a grasp.

    I think I'm going to develop a boiler system to sanitize the water by bringing it to a boil for a couple of minutes and flash-cooling it to desired temperature. It'll have the added benefit of eliminating the solar and natural gas pool heaters, and give the pool owner a means to customize their temps. I'm thinking of using a somewhat small nuclear reactor and and a couple of ammonia compressors...
    Sorry. I'm done now.
    [/RantMode = Off]
    Well said!

    That last paragraph....
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
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    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Silver based algaecides

    There are two very common beliefs that drive this. Many many people are scared of chlorine. And everyone wants a "magic pill" that will solve all pool problems in minutes. These two desires/fears make people very susceptible to charlatans who promise to eliminate chlorine and solve all problems with almost no effort. They want to believe so they ignore any contrary evidence.

    A off topic discussion about Chasville's use of an ionizer and ozone has been moved to Agree To Disagree.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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