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Thread: A&A Pop Up Problem

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    A&A Pop Up Problem

    Hi All, Newbie here...

    I've put in my pool about 15 years ago, and got the A&A pop ups in the floor. The actuator is the low profile model, with 6 balls in it. Thankfully, it comes with a lifetime warranty, as I've had the pop ups replaced twice, and the gears in the actuator replaced twice, and the actuator housing replaced once. In fact, I just finished replacing the second set of everything, less the actuator housing.

    It's working well, with one exception. One zone runs (leaves the pop ups, up) for about twice as long as any other zone. I've adjusted the speed by rotating the lid, and while it changes the speed that the pop ups cycle, that one zone is always about double of the other zones. This particular zone has two high flow heads, and three low flow. The one that proceeds it, has two high and two low. It cycles at the same speed as others, so it's not back pressure slowing the water flow. It appears the impeller inside of the actuator is turning at about the same RPM, regardless of the zone.

    I'm stumped. Any ideas???

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    Re: A&A Pop Up Problem

    Have you called A&A and asked if they have any ideas? Could it possibly be water leaking by the ball for that zone? Maybe move all the balls 2 zones over in a clockwise direction and test again. Also inspect the surface the balls set in carefully for damage.

    I've got a 5 port actuator with the acrylic balls. A&A told me if the balls somehow failed, I'd need to change the actuator over to the newer t-valve and clip setup. I believe they make a retrofit kit if you need to go that way. Oh, and it's covered under warranty.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: A&A Pop Up Problem

    I've actually moved the balls around while inspecting, and replacing the gears. They all look pretty good to me. It's not leaking past the ball, it just stays longer at that particular station than it should.

    It's not really a problem yet. That zone keeps the pop ups running 2:15 or so, the rest are right around a minute. I really thought it was the gear set, and it would cure itself once replaced. The new gear set didn't help. I just can't figure out why one zone is "slower" than the rest...
    15,000 in ground gunite and plaster pool. A&A pop up in floor cleaner. 2 HP single speed pump. A&A inline leaf basket. Filter with four filter elements. Auto water fill. 400,000 but gas heater. Waterfall on separate 2 HP pump

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    Re: A&A Pop Up Problem

    Well, something isn't right - the system shouldn't even be able to work that way as far as I know (unless you manually have a way to pause on a specific zone).

    I'm perplexed, so I decided to call them and ask. The customer service rep stated that she has never heard of that before - and it's virtually impossible given how the system is supposed to work. But she said to contact their regional manager and discuss with him - I'll PM you his contact info.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: A&A Pop Up Problem

    Thanks very much. I got your PM, and gave him a call. It went to voice mail, standing by for a return call.

    Yes, it is very odd. As the zones are cycling, it's not really a problem, just annoys my OCD brain. It's a pretty simple machine, and I can't see why it's doing it. It sure appears that the impeller is turning at the same RPM all the time...
    15,000 in ground gunite and plaster pool. A&A pop up in floor cleaner. 2 HP single speed pump. A&A inline leaf basket. Filter with four filter elements. Auto water fill. 400,000 but gas heater. Waterfall on separate 2 HP pump

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    Re: A&A Pop Up Problem

    Yes, it's a simple setup. It was annoying my OCD brain too!

    In theory, the impeller rpm may change slightly while going from zone to zone - at least I think it does based on filter pressure changes during that operation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Is the pressure coming out of the heads on the longer time zone as forceful as other zones (comparing high pressure heads to high pressure heads or low to low)?

    Is the filter pressure the same on that zone as on other zones?

    I'm thinking that a restriction in the line after the actuator valve might be able to cause the issue.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: A&A Pop Up Problem

    Yes, that's one thing I checked. I have good flow out of all zones. The "long" zone has two high flow heads, and three low flow. The zone that proceeds it has two high and two low, so it can't be too much back pressure on the slow zone. I have another zone with two high and three low, and it cycles fine as well. The slow zone has tons of pressure out of the jets. I've watched the gauge on top of the filter, and it never changes from zone to zone. The speed the pop ups go up and down don't change going to, nor from the slow zone.

    Like I said, it's not really a problem, per se. The pool is staying clean, and the pop ups are rotating as they should. It's just odd, and bugging me. I'm also hoping it's not a harbinger of upcoming issues...

    Edit: There is no change in pressure from zone to zone. As one zone ends, the other is beginning, so you end up with two zones running at half pressure for a short time. Kind of like an automatic transmission being in both gears for a short time as it shifts...
    15,000 in ground gunite and plaster pool. A&A pop up in floor cleaner. 2 HP single speed pump. A&A inline leaf basket. Filter with four filter elements. Auto water fill. 400,000 but gas heater. Waterfall on separate 2 HP pump

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    Re: A&A Pop Up Problem

    Good, so you covered that possibility already. Yeah - that's where I was going.... same pressure on each individual zone, relatively even head flow and a slight drop while between zones.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: A&A Pop Up Problem

    Well, I think I figured it out...

    I went out to take a video, to help explain things. I decided to start on the slow zone, and call it zone one. Time it, and move to zone two, time it, repeat all the way around the pool.

    Turns out I ran out of zones, at zone five. My actuator is a six hole actuator. It looks like the builder tied two of the outlets out of the actuator to zone one, so of course it runs twice as long. The cycling sequence is 1,1,2,3,4,5-1,1,2,3,4,5-repeat. I don't know if I'm more embarrassed at asking the question in the first place, or the fact that I haven't noticed it in the 15 years since I put the pool in.

    At least I made a friend. Thanks for the help, Gene. Next time you're in Las Vegas, I owe you a beer. Man, I really feel stupid, but at least my OCD is satisfied...
    15,000 in ground gunite and plaster pool. A&A pop up in floor cleaner. 2 HP single speed pump. A&A inline leaf basket. Filter with four filter elements. Auto water fill. 400,000 but gas heater. Waterfall on separate 2 HP pump

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    Re: A&A Pop Up Problem

    Well, don't feel too bad - at least we both learned something new today.
    And you can get some tonight.

    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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