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Thread: Raising Ta without raising pH

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    themadangler's Avatar
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    Raising Ta without raising pH

    Been dealing with the pH rise for a couple if weeks now and it's got my TA down to 70 which I suspect will go lower with the addition of MA to lower the pH. pH was up to 8.0 when I added MA this morning and the TA was 70. I'll measure both again this evening, but in the meantime, is there an ideal was to adjust the TA without affecting the pH?

    Diamond Pool 20'x40' Lazy L, approx 33,000 gal vinyl liner, Hayward s244T filter, Pentair Intellichlor Ic 40( new May 2016) replaced computer pool cpsc35, inter mastic T40404R, A.O.Smith UST1152 super pump 1.5 hp, Hayward heater, not working or by-passed, Polaris 360

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    Re: Raising Ta without raising pH

    The best process is to lower both using acid and then raise pH back using aeration. The process is well documented in POOL SCHOOL.
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    themadangler's Avatar
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    Re: Raising Ta without raising pH

    Quote Originally Posted by txnole View Post
    The best process is to lower both using acid and then raise pH back using aeration. The process is well documented in POOL SCHOOL.
    Thanks but perhaps I didn't explain well enough. The pH is rising on its own, I suspect it's not being buffered well by the TA because with each new addition of MA, the TA lowers. I want to raise the TA slightly, 80-120 ppm as recommended by the swg and keep the pH in the acceptable range.

    Diamond Pool 20'x40' Lazy L, approx 33,000 gal vinyl liner, Hayward s244T filter, Pentair Intellichlor Ic 40( new May 2016) replaced computer pool cpsc35, inter mastic T40404R, A.O.Smith UST1152 super pump 1.5 hp, Hayward heater, not working or by-passed, Polaris 360

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    26venus's Avatar
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    Re: Raising Ta without raising pH

    I would suggest raising your TA using baking soda. Based on your 33,000 gallons, adding 74 ounces of baking soda will raise your TA 10 ppm while only raising your Ph by .02

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    Re: Raising Ta without raising pH

    Baking Soda raises TA

    - - - Updated - - -

    Baking Soda raises TA...EDITED: above post covered question
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    themadangler's Avatar
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    Re: Raising Ta without raising pH

    That's what I planned on doing but wasn't sure how much it would raise pH also. Just didn't want to raise both equally and still have to fight with a high pH and TA. Next question, best way to add the baking soda? broadcast it or sock in front of return?

    Diamond Pool 20'x40' Lazy L, approx 33,000 gal vinyl liner, Hayward s244T filter, Pentair Intellichlor Ic 40( new May 2016) replaced computer pool cpsc35, inter mastic T40404R, A.O.Smith UST1152 super pump 1.5 hp, Hayward heater, not working or by-passed, Polaris 360

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    Re: Raising Ta without raising pH

    Quote Originally Posted by themadangler View Post
    Thanks but perhaps I didn't explain well enough. The pH is rising on its own, I suspect it's not being buffered well by the TA because with each new addition of MA, the TA lowers. I want to raise the TA slightly, 80-120 ppm as recommended by the swg and keep the pH in the acceptable range.

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    Baking soda will raise TA with very little effect on pH.

    In 33,000 gallons, 75oz of baking soda will raise TA 10ppm, and pH 0.02

    FWIW, don't get too hung up on that TA number. If this were my pool I would push it down to 55-60 to see if my acid consumption decreases. There is no magic number for TA, TA is a slave to pH.

    With that said, I wouldn't go below a TA of 55ppm to avoid messing with other chemistry balances (eg CSI).

    I would focus on the other sources of pH rise, like anything that aerates the water such as fountains, waterfalls & other water features & try to minimize there as well.

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    themadangler's Avatar
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    Re: Raising Ta without raising pH

    Quote Originally Posted by domct203 View Post
    Baking soda will raise TA with very little effect on pH.

    In 33,000 gallons, 75oz of baking soda will raise TA 10ppm, and pH 0.02

    FWIW, don't get too hung up on that TA number. If this were my pool I would push it down to 55-60 to see if my acid consumption decreases. There is no magic number for TA, TA is a slave to pH.

    With that said, I wouldn't go below a TA of 55ppm to avoid messing with other chemistry balances (eg CSI).

    I would focus on the other sources of pH rise, like anything that aerates the water such as fountains, waterfalls & other water features & try to minimize there as well.

    Dom
    Thanks, but I don't have any water features except kids. I guess they splash too much

    Diamond Pool 20'x40' Lazy L, approx 33,000 gal vinyl liner, Hayward s244T filter, Pentair Intellichlor Ic 40( new May 2016) replaced computer pool cpsc35, inter mastic T40404R, A.O.Smith UST1152 super pump 1.5 hp, Hayward heater, not working or by-passed, Polaris 360

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    Re: Raising Ta without raising pH

    TA above 80 and a SWG will cause PH to rise. Your TA needs to be between 50 and 80 to slow down PH rise. The mfg has it wrong. I would simply continue to lower your PH as needed to keep it at 7.8 or lower. This will slowly lower your TA. As TA and PH get closer to equilibrium for your pool the PH will rise less. If for some reason your TA drops below 50 and your PH isn't stable then we can address that. I doubt that will happen.
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    Re: Raising Ta without raising pH

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    TA above 80 and a SWG will cause PH to rise. Your TA needs to be between 50 and 80 to slow down PH rise. The mfg has it wrong. I would simply continue to lower your PH as needed to keep it at 7.8 or lower. This will slowly lower your TA. As TA and PH get closer to equilibrium for your pool the PH will rise less. If for some reason your TA drops below 50 and your PH isn't stable then we can address that. I doubt that will happen.
    Thanks. I will keep at it and post up my progress.

    Diamond Pool 20'x40' Lazy L, approx 33,000 gal vinyl liner, Hayward s244T filter, Pentair Intellichlor Ic 40( new May 2016) replaced computer pool cpsc35, inter mastic T40404R, A.O.Smith UST1152 super pump 1.5 hp, Hayward heater, not working or by-passed, Polaris 360

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