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Thread: Replacing Single Speed Pump with IntelliFlo VF - Intellitouch questions

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    Replacing Single Speed Pump with IntelliFlo VF - Intellitouch questions

    Greetings.
    I wanted to thank this forum for helping me be free of the pool guy and the pool store for over a year now. I no longer have to think too much about pool chemistry, having upgraded the pool to use an SWG, and have my pH rise under control thanks to a Solaxx acid sense and dispense system. But all good things do not last forever.

    I recently had a pump failure (likely due to a capacitor). The pump in question was a Pentair WhisperFlo. I decided to upgrade to the Intelliflo VF to save a few $$ on electricity.
    The challenge I am having is how to wire the new pump to the existing automation and reprogram the various settings on the internal control panel.

    If my understanding is correct, the new pump will require a direct connection to the main breaker in the Load Center – and is controlled by the data cable and programmed at the panel.

    I currently also have a Hayware Aquarite SWG as well as a pool sweep booster, which are both running on their own relay and is also controlled by the Intellitouch.

    In an ideal setup, I would need to reprogram the “Pool” and “Spa” programs on my internal panel – but I still have not got my head around how this is supposed to work. I want to make sure that the SWG is only running when the pump is, and that the booster is only running when I am using a higher flow “feature” for two hours to improve skimming in the pool.

    Do I program only a start time and let the pump itself control the flow and determine the stop time? How do I keep the chlorinator synchronized to the start and stop time of the pump? Will the pump send a signal to the Intellitouch to turn off the chlorinator when the pump determines it has complete a full turn? Is there special configuration needed to require the pump to be running to activate the chlorinator? And vice versa, can activating the Chlorinator program on the internal panel put it on delay and then start the pump?

    Similarly, with the booster, how do I synchronize this with the higher flow feature of the VF? This may be easy – in that I set that feature in the pump to start and stop at a certain time – and use the timer on the indoor panel to match that window for use of the booster. Now if I wanted to manually activate the booster, I would like it to activate a higher flow setting on the pump.

    Any advice would be appreciated.
    32,000 gal. gunite with spa, Hayward Aquarite 40,000, Pentair DE filter 60 sqft.

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pump with IntelliFlo VF - Intellitouch questions

    From the breaker that provides power to the pump and the swg there should be two 120 V lines that go to the line side of the filter pump relay. Connect the two lines that will feed power to the pump to the same line side of the filter relay. Connect the power for the swg and the heater to the load side of the filter pump relay.

    By wiring the system this way the pump will always have power to it, and the swg and heater will only activate when the filter pump circuit is also activated( which means the pump is running).

    The serial cable from the pump that consists of the green and yellow wires will connect to those respective slots on the communication port inside the low voltage area of your IntelliTouch.
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
    POOL BUILD
    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pump with IntelliFlo VF - Intellitouch questions

    Great. So I would allow the programmed schedule on the IntelliTouch to control the pump schedule, but not need to use the "Pool" circuit to control timing as the pump would hold and run the schedule that is sent to it by the IT. The "Pool" circuit would effectively only control the timing for the SWG with what you've suggested? Would another alternative to be to connect the pump to the line side of the relay where the chlorinator is currently wired into and abandon the relay where the current pump is connected to? (They are currently on separate relays with their own schedules running)?

    My current config allows for the chlorinator to be turned on even if the pump is not running, which is OK as long as the flow meter is functioning. I would prefer a 30 second delay and a requirement for the VF to be running.

    The current config doesn't allow for the "Cleaner" circuit to be on without the pump running, which is what I'm hoping I can figure out if I need to or how to re-program once the new pump is installed. I will likely be doing a lot of learning on the fly once the unit is grafted into the system.

    I'm still unclear on how to program the Cleaner circuit to require the pump to be running with the VF, as well as how to set a custom flow rate for it. Also, how to set a flow rate for the Spa mode. If you happen to know, I'd be very grateful.

    Thanks again.
    32,000 gal. gunite with spa, Hayward Aquarite 40,000, Pentair DE filter 60 sqft.

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pump with IntelliFlo VF - Intellitouch questions

    I'm a little confused at what you are asking...

    The intelliflo needs to have continuous power. The way that I recommended wiring the pump previously would not only allow that continuous power to be provided to the pump but also when the POOL circuit was activated, would power of the swg and heater. Once you have the system set up, you program feature circuits which are basically just different speeds for your pump to fill a specific operation that you'd like to run.

    For example, the POOL circuit would be scheduled to run from 10 a.m. to 8 p.m. at 1200 RPM, your cleaner circuit is scheduled to run from 1 p.m. to 3 p.m. at 2500 rpm. If you were to schedule things this way then not only would your pump be on the entire time but the swg and the pump speed would automatically ramp up when the cleaner schedule came time to run.

    You really need to wire the relays the way that I suggested. If you do it some way different than that then you do increase the likelihood that the swg could be on while the pump is not currently running, not to mention creating a programming nightmare. The way I've suggested is the way that Pentair recommends that their equipment be configured.

    If you don't already have it, ScreenLogic is a lifesaver as far as programming and convenience for your setup.
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
    POOL BUILD
    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pump with IntelliFlo VF - Intellitouch questions

    Sorry - I'm struggling to articulate. The IntelliFlo is a VF, so rather than program speeds, you just give it a stop and start time, # turnovers, and the size of the pool. It handles the rest. I am just unclear on whether or not the IT POOL circuit actually needs to be setup to run a schedule or if the IT is just being used as an interface to the pump to run its schedule.

    I agree that either that the setup you are suggesting is probably a great setup. I do have a CHLORINATOR circuit on the IT that is configured to run the SWG. Pentair does recommend not hanging anything at all off of the breaker the pump is on.

    Let me ask this way, if the POOL circuit is configured to control the pump (on and off) and it is also used to set the schedule (and the VF itself is only controlling flow to manage making 1 turn in the alloted time), then your config makes as it will turn on the pump and activate the relay. I would assume I would need to configure the circuit to both turn on the pump and one of the relays. Alternately, if I set the POOL mode to activate the relay the swg is connected to, I'd have the same result.

    Sorry, this is confusing to me even as I write it. Does that make sense?
    32,000 gal. gunite with spa, Hayward Aquarite 40,000, Pentair DE filter 60 sqft.

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pump with IntelliFlo VF - Intellitouch questions

    I missed you had the VF pump. I wish you'd asked prior to getting it because you paid for many features that you simply won't use. Turnovers are meaningless in a residential pool, as is the actual flow rate. Its nice to know and there are simple ways to determine it based on wattage and RPM but knowing it does not change anything.

    If you were using the VF as a standalone unit, then what you are saying is correct about scheduling turnovers etc....But since you have the IT, all pump control is disabled as the IT tells the pump what to do based on your programmed settings via the serial cable.

    With the VF pump you set pump speed by GPM not RPM so everything that I've previously stated will still hold true so long as you base the settings on GPM and not RPM. The POOL circuit should still be the slowest speed; perhaps start at 20 GPM and see if thats enough to trigger the flow switch in the SWG. If not, bump it up until it does. Next set a POOL High feature, CLEANER, SPA, etc...each at their own specific GPM. As your filter gets dirty, the pump will increase the speed to maintain the GPM that you have set that circuit to operate.

    There is no reason not to power the pump and accessories off the pump breaker. The amperage draw is minimal on SWGs and heaters but if you want to have a different breaker power those items then run the pump off a dedicated 2 pole 20A GFI breaker and do the same for the Filter (F) relay.
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
    POOL BUILD
    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pump with IntelliFlo VF - Intellitouch questions

    TXTransplant,

    A couple of questions..

    1. Do you already have the VF pump?
    2. Do you plan to install the pump and program the IT yourself?

    Here are a couple of key points to keep in mind..

    1. The Intelliflo needs to have constant 220 volt power not controlled by a relay.
    2. The communication cable between the Intelliflo pump your Intellitouch (IT) has a plug on the pump end, but will have to be wired into the comm board inside your IT.
    3. You will have to program the IT so that it recognizes that your pump is attached and that it is an variable Flow pump.
    4. As Brian has stated, you will need to rewire the power to your SWG so that it passes through the Filter/Pump relay. (If not already done, and it does not sound like it.)
    5. And finally you will need to program the times and speeds that you want your new pump to run.

    Sounds like a big effort, but it is much harder to explain than it is to do.

    I'll send you a PM...

    Thanks,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pump with IntelliFlo VF - Intellitouch questions

    In the pump settings for the intellitouch controller there will be a filter option where you set the flow rate, pool size, number of turnovers, and start time. The intellitouch will automatically turn on the 'filter' circuit when the pump is running to filter the water, and turn it off when the pump is finished pumping the requisite number of gallons of water through the system. If you manually press the filter button, it will turn on the pump to the flow rate you set. The pump will run at the highest of the preset flow rates if more than one circuit with an associated flow rate is activated. This means that if your filtering rate is 25 GPM, and your water feature flow rate is 35 GPM, if you turn both circuits on the pump will run at 35 GPM. For the cleaner, you will want to program a feature circuit to run during the programmed filtering time.
    8.5k gallon IG pebble sheen play pool with Intellitouch control, Intellifo VF, IC 20, Rainbow tab feeder (not currently in use), Pentaire mystery cartridge filter with labels faded to the point I have no idea on the model, Intellibrite 5g LED light, Hayward Navigator. Adding IntelliPh and Crestron control next.

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pump with IntelliFlo VF - Intellitouch questions

    Ok, thanks for everyone's advice. I installed the pump last night and after working for about an hour with the IT controller, everything began to make more sense. I have the Solaxx and SWG running off of the main pump relay, and the pump itself on the line side of the relay for constant power, giving me the extra insurance of those units not being powered on when the pump is not running. I would like to configure it so that if I activate the CHLORINATOR circuit, it will also fire the pump with a delayed start of the SWG - but that is not a big deal as I rarely would ever need that.

    The setup of the IT was a bit tricky - but it recognized the pump right away. It didn't help that I had a loose control wire to start - so things did not seem to be working. What also had me stumped was that I was not sure how the IT was controlling the old single speed pump. I guess by default, the POOL circuit will always activate the pump relay, and once an IntelliFlo is setup for that circuit, it will simultaneously operate the pump relay and activate the IF pump over the communication link. The schedule on the IC is translated by the pump - likely as FILTER stop/start times. I was able to set three custom flows, one for the cleaner, one for the spa, and one for the fountain - each with a GPM that is optimal. Pump is humming along now and using only 474 W of power versus 2600-ish on the single speed pump. My math shows a rough savings of about $40 per month for this. Not a huge savings, but if the pump holds out mechanically, i'll see a return on my investment in about 2 years or so.
    32,000 gal. gunite with spa, Hayward Aquarite 40,000, Pentair DE filter 60 sqft.

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pump with IntelliFlo VF - Intellitouch questions

    I suggest that you install a surge protector in the IT, if you have not already done so.. If you look at the comments from others whose pumps have failed, almost all of them begin with "We had thunderstorms last night and now my pump won't work...."

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pump with IntelliFlo VF - Intellitouch questions

    Any recommendations on the unit to use? Also, I think I need to add a few more breakers on my panel. I noticed a lot of daisy chaining going on in there.


    32,000 gal. gunite with spa, Hayward Aquarite 40,000, Pentair DE filter 60 sqft.

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pump with IntelliFlo VF - Intellitouch questions

    That wiring is unnecessarily complicated. All of that should be powered off a single relay.
    -Brian-
    33K Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment
    POOL BUILD
    Davis Custom Construction - Home Page

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    Re: Replacing Single Speed Pump with IntelliFlo VF - Intellitouch questions

    Here is the Surge protector I use.. I have no idea if it is good one or not, just wanted some protection. Nothing is going to help an actual lightning hit.

    Surge Protector.jpg

    Plugs in just like a 220 volt Circuit breaker.

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Calder Spa.

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