Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 34

Thread: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Winter haven, Fl
    Posts
    23

    I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    Three weeks ago I treated my pool for metal stains. I did my very best to follow the instructions found on this forum. (But I was still using a pool service & pool store for testing) Unfortunately, sometime while my FC was low, algae found a home in my pool. Last night I did a OCLT & my FC dropped from 6ppm to 3.5ppm in 12 hours. According to what I have read, I started to SLAM my pool this morning. I used my result of 30CYA on the poolmath page & it told me to raise the FC to 12. I did my best to add the 113oz of 10% chlorine but must have poured too much. At 12:30 my FC was 16.5 . I brushed & turned off my SWG & tested again @ 2:00. The FC dropped to 13ppm. Shortly after that test, while brushing my pool I noticed my METAL STAINS starting to form again on the bottom of the pool!!! And to add to my stress it is now POURING down rain!

    Results before I started SLAM
    FC 3.5
    CC .5
    PH 7.0 or 6.8 (I'm still not confident matching the colors)
    TA 50
    CYA 30

    Is there anything I can do to stop the staining? I am continuing the SLAM but I am about to lose my mind over this pool. I'm pretty sure the metal source is our city water. The original stain formed about 3 months after it was filled. And I've been fighting these stains along with several different pool services over the past two years!!!

    Please help!
    10,400 Gal, IG SanJuan fiberglass (2014), SWG-Blue Essence salt cell, Hayward Pump SP2300VSP, 120sq ft Star-Clear plus Cartridge filter, Winter Haven, Fl , TF-100, Navigator Pro pool cleaner

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    Metals are fairly uncommon in municipal water. Does your city or county provide annual water test reports?

    Have you had low pH water in the past and do you have a heater? Low pH (less than 7.0) can erode copper from your heater element and cause staining.

    Otherwise, metals in the water can come from other chemical sources such as copper-containing algaecides, trichlor pucks or dichlor shock products with copper additives. Did your pool service use any of these products or did you use any from the pool store? Iron is not probable in municipal water and not in any pool products that I know of.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Winter haven, Fl
    Posts
    23

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    Hi, I could be wrong about the city water but, the first evidence of staining started only three months after the pool was completed . At that time we were not using a pool service and we do not have a heater. We didn't have much trouble with the water that first year but I do remember being told to use the phosphate remover at one point as well as some powder shock. Not to mention loads of "stain out". When the entire pool turned orange, we finally hired a "professional " . He did a great job of taking our money! If I remember correctly, he did get rid of the stains for a few weeks but when they returned he told me that there was something wrong with our one year old fiberglass. And he didn't attempt getting them out a second time!
    I could go on about the second service but I don't think it will help my current situation.
    Which is... I am watching metal stains form before my eyes because I need to SLAM the algae that is growing due to the vitamin C treatment that removed the stains in the first place. Where have I gone wrong?
    10,400 Gal, IG SanJuan fiberglass (2014), SWG-Blue Essence salt cell, Hayward Pump SP2300VSP, 120sq ft Star-Clear plus Cartridge filter, Winter Haven, Fl , TF-100, Navigator Pro pool cleaner

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    Did you use polyquat-60 when allowing the FC drop to perform the AA treatment for the metals stains? That can help prevent algae from starting when removing metals stains.

    Ascorbic Treatment to rid Pool of metal stains

    It's certainly frustrating. Do you have any pictures your can share of the water? Have you had the pool store test your water for metals? One of the few tests that has any value at a pool store... mostly because it's free and a ball park idea is all you need.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Winter haven, Fl
    Posts
    23

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    Yes I did use the Polyquat-60 during & after the AA treatment . I did my best to follow the instructions listed on this forum. The only problem I had was when it was time to bring up the chlorine slowly. Did you want a picture of the algae I'm SLAMMing or a picture of the metal stains that set the ball in motion?
    10,400 Gal, IG SanJuan fiberglass (2014), SWG-Blue Essence salt cell, Hayward Pump SP2300VSP, 120sq ft Star-Clear plus Cartridge filter, Winter Haven, Fl , TF-100, Navigator Pro pool cleaner

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Winter haven, Fl
    Posts
    23

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    I am starting day two of SLAM. Should I be concerned that my OCLT only improved slightly after a full day of SLAMing? Yesterday before I started my OCLT went from 7ppm down to 3.5ppm & today my loss was 12ppm to 9ppm. I am brand new to testing & had difficulty reading the control CYA, therefore I am not sure if my own CYA is really 30? Can I retest during the slam? Or does my 1/2 ppm improvement sound normal for one day? I am worried that the longer I have the FC elevated, the worse my metal stains are going to get!
    10,400 Gal, IG SanJuan fiberglass (2014), SWG-Blue Essence salt cell, Hayward Pump SP2300VSP, 120sq ft Star-Clear plus Cartridge filter, Winter Haven, Fl , TF-100, Navigator Pro pool cleaner

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    The SLAM will take as long as it will take, you'll have to worry about the stains later and deal with it then.

    To be honest, this is likely the worst time of year to attempt dealing with metals stains. Hot weather, hot water, lots of direct sunlight and in Florida means algae can get started very rapidly if FC levels are not maintained. If you're very diligent after passing the SLAM, using polyquat and able to give the metals treatment your full attention after the SLAM, you might have a chance.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Pool Tool's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Western Chicago Area, IL
    Posts
    754

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    You are much better than a 0.5 ppm improvement. Day 1 you lost 50% of your FC overnight; day 2 you lost only 25% of your FC. That is a good improvement, but I will tell you that the OCLT is not a means to show improvement. It is just a way to tell you that you are free of algae. By the time you see algae, there is lots of it. It is understandable that you could take a day or two even up to a week before your kill rate equals or overcomes the algae's growth rate.

    You are doing great, hang in there. Sorry to hear of your metal troubles. I fortunately (for me anyway) can't be of much help there. Have you done any recent metal testing, pool stores can give you a decent idea on this, to give you an idea which metal(s) you are fighting?
    16' x 32' (21100 gal), vinyl, 1.5 hp Hayward SuperPump,
    Tagelus TA60/60D Sand Filter, Raypak 399K Digital Heater, TF-100

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Winter haven, Fl
    Posts
    23

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    Should I try to retest my CYA to make sure my target FC is at the correct level? Or will the current FC of 12 mess up the test results?
    10,400 Gal, IG SanJuan fiberglass (2014), SWG-Blue Essence salt cell, Hayward Pump SP2300VSP, 120sq ft Star-Clear plus Cartridge filter, Winter Haven, Fl , TF-100, Navigator Pro pool cleaner

  10. Back To Top    #10

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,082

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    The current FC of 12 will not affect the CYA test but I suggest you simply ignore CYA (assume your 30 is correct) and continue the SLAM.......testing only FC until you start to lose less than 1 ppm overnight.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Winter haven, Fl
    Posts
    23

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    Ok thank you
    10,400 Gal, IG SanJuan fiberglass (2014), SWG-Blue Essence salt cell, Hayward Pump SP2300VSP, 120sq ft Star-Clear plus Cartridge filter, Winter Haven, Fl , TF-100, Navigator Pro pool cleaner

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Winter haven, Fl
    Posts
    23

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    My loss is getting smaller but not the stain?
    OCLT 16ppm @ 8pm
    14.5ppm @ 7am
    Does black algae look like hundreds of tiny specks that won't brush off or scratch off with finger nail?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    10,400 Gal, IG SanJuan fiberglass (2014), SWG-Blue Essence salt cell, Hayward Pump SP2300VSP, 120sq ft Star-Clear plus Cartridge filter, Winter Haven, Fl , TF-100, Navigator Pro pool cleaner

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Winter haven, Fl
    Posts
    23

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    image.jpegHere is an enlarged photo of the tiny spots. These dots get closer together further down the wall but I don't have an underwater camera to capture them.
    10,400 Gal, IG SanJuan fiberglass (2014), SWG-Blue Essence salt cell, Hayward Pump SP2300VSP, 120sq ft Star-Clear plus Cartridge filter, Winter Haven, Fl , TF-100, Navigator Pro pool cleaner

  14. Back To Top    #14
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    Normally you can scratch off some black algae, more here, Pool School - Black Algae
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Winter haven, Fl
    Posts
    23

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    They do not scratch off. But before I started the SLAM this area was slimy to the touch & now it is not. Is there anything else that looks like hundreds of specks about the size of sand.
    10,400 Gal, IG SanJuan fiberglass (2014), SWG-Blue Essence salt cell, Hayward Pump SP2300VSP, 120sq ft Star-Clear plus Cartridge filter, Winter Haven, Fl , TF-100, Navigator Pro pool cleaner

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,994

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    I don't know. But, my guess is copper specs from algaecide or pucks that contain copper.
    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Winter haven, Fl
    Posts
    23

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    I failed OCLT again. FC dropped from 12 to 9.5. I am leaving town Saturday for a week & not sure what To do? Should I raise my SLAM level or stay at 12? And what do you recommend I do if the FC falls Friday night too? Should I turn back on my SWG & work on balancing my water & just keep my FC as high as I can til I get home? I am starting to panic please advise!
    10,400 Gal, IG SanJuan fiberglass (2014), SWG-Blue Essence salt cell, Hayward Pump SP2300VSP, 120sq ft Star-Clear plus Cartridge filter, Winter Haven, Fl , TF-100, Navigator Pro pool cleaner

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    If you do not pass before you leave, raise your FC to shock level for your CYA just before leaving and turn on your SWG again to try to maintain FC while you're gone. A solar cover over the pool would reduce daily FC losses while you're gone as well. I'm not sure of the specs (lbs of chlorine/day) of your SWG, but it looks to be around 1 pound per day. That means if you ran the SWG 100% of the time for 24 hours, you'd produce about 11 ppm per day with the SWG at 100% output, running continuously. Go from there to determine how long to run the SWG at 100% while you're gone. Do you think you're losing about 6 ppm daily? Then 100% SWG for 12 hours a day.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Winter haven, Fl
    Posts
    23

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    Thank u for responding so quickly. What should I do if I pass the test Friday night?
    10,400 Gal, IG SanJuan fiberglass (2014), SWG-Blue Essence salt cell, Hayward Pump SP2300VSP, 120sq ft Star-Clear plus Cartridge filter, Winter Haven, Fl , TF-100, Navigator Pro pool cleaner

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Minnesota
    Posts
    5,079

    Re: I'm chasing my tail!!! Please help !!

    Then I would not be as aggressive with the SWG setting and maybe not raise the FC to shock level. Do you have an idea what the pool would use on a normal day (what your SWG would keep up with daily clean pool demand), when you were not dealing with algae? If you're already at shock level or near it after passing the OCLT then just run the SWG at 100% for 6-12 hours each day (lowest pump speed you can to allow SWG to run) depending on what you think the daily demand will be in a clean pool.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
    Isolated Spa - 345 Gallons

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •