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Thread: First TC 100 test results

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    Illupo's Avatar
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    First TC 100 test results

    Well, I think I am looking at a complete drain and refill to correct this mess! Very happy with the TF 100 kit, my first question is how can anyone accurately deal with a pool without one?

    Yesterdays results were:

    FC = 2
    CC = 1.5
    TC = 3.5
    CH = 500
    TA = 170
    CYA = 200? (could not see the dot halfway to the 100 mark)

    Todays results:

    FC =3
    CC = 1.5
    CH = 400
    TA = 200
    CYA = 200 (same result as yesterday)

    Since the two days results are so similar, I feel I am doing the tests correctly. The instructions seem easy to follow. Probably because there is so much junk in my water, it is hard to tell when colors change. For instance, when the test is supposed to turn to "red", mine turns "pink". When it is supposed to turn blue, mine is more "purple"
    At any rate, Pool Math says to exchange 80% or so, but for that little difference I think I will do a full drain.

    We have been using pucks exclusivly for many years until I was educated here. My problem, like most, is that we have always listened to the advice from the pool stores. Last year, when I was having trouble keeping the chlorine up, they had me put in up to 4 pucks a week and also Total Alkalinity, PH UP and other stuff. I see now all I did was screw up the water really badly.

    Question: Using the quick test I get TC of 1 yesterday and 2 today, yet on the weekly test I get 3.5 and 4.5 respectively. This does not make sense to me...
    Inground 1800 gallon gunite spa/pool, installed mid 1980s.
    Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 4 cartridge filter Model CCP 240
    Pac Fab Challenger (High head, High flow) 1 1/2 HP pump
    One Jandy valve controlling automatic chlorinator

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    Yes, regardless of the chemicals needed, your #1 priority will be to lower the CYA via draining or partial drains. We generally do not advise lowering any further than about 12" or to the lowest step, but your ground made be stable enough to where that doesn't matter. Once you get control of that CYA you'll be in much better shape for the season and beyond. You're right ... I don't know how anyone takes care of their water without the proper test kit either. But before TFP, I thought anything would work. Live & learn.

    The TC test might be because CC are increasing. (TC = FC + CC). Another sign a drain would be good so you can get control of that FC/CYA balancing.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Illupo's Avatar
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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    You got that right! Here in Phoenix our soil has a tensile strength greater than concrete! Drained and filled the pool this morning. Looks better already. Here are my readings:

    DAILY TEST

    Chlorine = 0

    PH = 8.2

    WEEKLY TEST



    FC = 0

    CH = 300 (8 drops made it purple, 12 drops it seemed more blue)

    TA = 220 (22 drops pink, 23 drops more reddish)

    CYA = 0

    I am a little confused on what to do first. It seems I read somewhere here that you first adjust you PH as that has an effect on other readings. Could that be why the TA is so high? Just need a little direction from here.
    Inground 1800 gallon gunite spa/pool, installed mid 1980s.
    Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 4 cartridge filter Model CCP 240
    Pac Fab Challenger (High head, High flow) 1 1/2 HP pump
    One Jandy valve controlling automatic chlorinator

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    Definitely get some FC in there fast. Regular bleach to increase FC to about 3 ppm on day 1. Now you will need stabilizer again, just not as much. TFP recommended range is 30-50 ... 50 for those hotter locations like you and me. I'm actually at 60 myself. But after what you went through, maybe start at 40-50 for now?
    To increase CYA via granular stabilizer, place the required amount as calculated by the Poolmath calculator into a white sock and place in the poolside skimmer basket. For those concerned about suction flow to the pump, suspending the sock near a return jet or from a floating device will also suffice. Best never to allow undissolved granules to rest directly against the pool surface. Squeeze the sock periodically to help it dissipate. Once dissolved, consider your CYA adjusted to that programmed (target) level. CYA test readings should show a rise in 24-48 hours, however some pools may experience a longer delay to fully register. Best to confirm final CYA in about 5-7 days before adding any more stabilizer/conditioner.
    After that stabilizer has all dissolved, then on day 2 and beyond increase FC to about 5 ppm. From there start matching your FC to your CYA as noted on the Chlorine/CYA Chart (link below).

    As for pH, knock it back down to the mid 7s. Usually 7.5-7.7 is good. Never let it go over 7.8.

    You'll want to start knocking down the TA a bit using the Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity page as well.

    I think that should get you going. Let us know if you have anymore questions.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Illupo's Avatar
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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    Thanks for the quick reply! My only other question regards muriatic acid. What I see in the stores lists 10%...I don't find any figure for "baume". Pool math does not show an entry for 10%. Your thoughts?
    Inground 1800 gallon gunite spa/pool, installed mid 1980s.
    Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 4 cartridge filter Model CCP 240
    Pac Fab Challenger (High head, High flow) 1 1/2 HP pump
    One Jandy valve controlling automatic chlorinator

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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    Check your Lowes and Home Depot. Here are a couple examples:
    Muriatic Acid (Home Depot):

    Muriatic Acid (Lowes):
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    Check Lowes.. they have the 31.45% in the paint dept
    Inherited 24' Muskin Above ground
    13500 gal
    Hayward S180T92S Sand filter
    Taylor K-2006C Speedstir
    TFPC for Beginners | Pool Math | Pool School | CYA Chart | SLAM | Test Kits | ABC's

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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    Thanks guys! Who would have thought to look in the paint department for pool acid??? Rechecked the Kemtek brand in the pool dept and it is only 14.75% or something like that. Well, I've added the chems according to pool math and will check tomorrow to see if PH and TA went down and CYA went up...
    Inground 1800 gallon gunite spa/pool, installed mid 1980s.
    Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 4 cartridge filter Model CCP 240
    Pac Fab Challenger (High head, High flow) 1 1/2 HP pump
    One Jandy valve controlling automatic chlorinator

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    Illupo's Avatar
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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    OK I think I am pretty well set up now. PH down to 7.5, FC up to 5. TA is still 220, but will continue to work on it with the acid/aeration method. CYA 20 this morning but am working on it SLOWLY...don't want to get back where it was.

    The only other chemical I have been using is Blue Wave Super Rust and Scale. Why? Because that is what the pool store said!!!! We did have an old heater that had no Jandy valve for shutting the water off to it. Plus it was plumbed above ground with galvanized pipe. Last year when 3 of the 6 pool returns quit working, it dawned on me that 30 years of pool water going through cast iron manifolds and galvanized pipe were probably dumping rust into the system. Sure enough, when I figured out that there were venturi orifices behind the eyeballs and replaced them, out came a torrent of rust, some the size of small rocks that were plugging the returns. I removed the heater and replumbed with PVC and cannot thing of any other metal that would be in the system, other than the SS pool light.


    The product does not list what is in it, so I am wondering if I should continue to use it?
    Inground 1800 gallon gunite spa/pool, installed mid 1980s.
    Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 4 cartridge filter Model CCP 240
    Pac Fab Challenger (High head, High flow) 1 1/2 HP pump
    One Jandy valve controlling automatic chlorinator

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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    I'm not familiar with that brand either. ProTeam's Metal Magic and Jack's Magic the Pink Stuff (regular), the Blue Stuff (fresh plaster), and the Purple Stuff (SWG) are some of the top sequestrants. You can also find other brands with similar products, some of which are noticeably less expensive. Sequestrants based on HEDP, phosphonic acid, or phosphonic acid derivatives are the most effective.

    It might be worth experimenting a bit to see if there's even enough metal in the water to effect it. If you don't see any staining or changes in water color, the metal level may be low enough to not be a problem. Generally, when you increase FC (i.e. for a SLAM) and/or pH, that's when metals begin to show their true colors against chlorine.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    No, there is really no staining. I am just concerned with not adding anything else to the water that would affect my now, great readings. (Not "great" like the pool store said, actual great readings,ha!)

    You have been so patient with me, thank you. On TA, pool math says the goal is 70-90+. On the instructions with my TF 100 kit, it says goal should be 100 to 120...can you explain?
    Inground 1800 gallon gunite spa/pool, installed mid 1980s.
    Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 4 cartridge filter Model CCP 240
    Pac Fab Challenger (High head, High flow) 1 1/2 HP pump
    One Jandy valve controlling automatic chlorinator

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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    Yes, we updated the Recommended levels page earlier this year and the TFTestkits folks still have a few packages in stock that I suspect the instructions haven't caught-up to the change. Stick with what you see here on the TFP site and Poolmath Calculator and you'll do fine. But for TA in general, we always say to not be too concerned with a specific number. TA impacts pH the most, so if your pH remains fairly stable without quick rising, then you have a good TA level. If pH seems to shoot-up quickly each week, then continue to bring TA down a bit until the pH is more stable.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    OK. Back to the TA readings. It has now been about 5 days since I have been testing both morning and night and I have discovered alot. With regard to TA. I started after my refill on the 20th with 220. Adding 8 oz acid per day per Pool Math, I went down to 160, then 140 for three days straight. Yesterday was 130, today 120. The same amount of acid seems to be slowing down as far as bringing the TA down. Prior to the refill, I did notice some white scaling on the walls, floor. The white scaling seems to be diminishing. Could it be that the slowing down of TA reduction is because the scaling is diminishing? I am still shooting for 80 on TA.

    Chlorine. When is the best time of the day to add chlorine? I began by adding chlorine only at 5 am, but by 5 am the next morning, I went from a reading of 6 down to 1.5 to 3. At 50 CYA, I am supposed to keep the minimum at 4.

    I am now adding chlorine twice daily. Once at 5 am and again at 5 pm. I can now keep a target of 8, with 3ppm depletion down to 5 or so. I have conflicting thoughts on chlorine. On the one hand, I want to do it only once a day,but that results in the minimum going below 4. If I add at 5 am and at 5 pm, I can keep it between 8 and 5, which I like much better. I have to remind you I am in Phoenix Arizona, (the SURFACE OF THE SUN! Forget what you heard about the VALLEY of the sun, Ha!) and we are pretty much 112 to 115 every day.

    Cause I know you will ask about current readings, they are: ( as of 5 am this morning)

    FC = 7
    CC = .5
    TC = 7.5
    TA - 120

    Did not test for CH or CYA as they have seemed to level out at 300 and 50 respectively. PH does rise rather routinely, I usually start at 7.5, use pool math to knock back to 7. 0 and the next day it is back to about 7.5.
    Inground 1800 gallon gunite spa/pool, installed mid 1980s.
    Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 4 cartridge filter Model CCP 240
    Pac Fab Challenger (High head, High flow) 1 1/2 HP pump
    One Jandy valve controlling automatic chlorinator

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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    There is no need to shoot for a particular number for TA. Let your pH rise to 7.8 and then knock it down to 7.2, repeat. You may be surprised that as TA goes down you find a happy spot of TA = 50-60 and pH around 7.6-7.8 (just as an example).

    Add chlorine when it is convenient. Once you know your pool you will know when and how much you need to add to not let it fall below minimum.
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    A couple thoughts for you to consider:
    - Did the use of acid and lowering TA have an effect on the disappearing white scale? Possibly. Seems kind of fast to see such results, but that would be the most logical.
    - You should only have to add chlorine once a day (morning or evening doesn't really matter). Some prefer evening after sunset just so they know they have fresh bleach working against organics without competing against the sun. But you shouldn't drop anymore than 4 ppm in a 24 hr period. If you do, that means either excessive organics (algae) or not enough CYA. You did that massive drain and refill, so perhaps now is time to consider adding a little more stabilizer? Bring it up to 60 and see how that works. My summer CYA is between 60-70. You might also consider a pool cover of some type, even if it's only a partial cover, something to take some of the UV off the water.

    But before you increase CYA, you may want to play it safe and do an overnight (OCLT) test. That way you know before increasing CYA that there is no algae present. All your other numbers look quite good.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Illupo's Avatar
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    Re: First TC 100 test results

    One added factor to consider. I've posted in the Equipment forum about replacing my Pentair Spa Bright light, which I believe to be original. (30 years old.) Several years ago, it burnt out, but it has only been last year to date that I have tried to replace the bulb. I HAD thought that there was a way to replace the light without removing the entire cord back to the junction box, but I have now learned that these lights seem to be sealed units that can only be replaced cord and all. That, I have not done although I plan to.

    When I drained the pool, I was able to DRILL out the screw only to find out that there was only 6" of extra cord, prohibiting bringing the fixture on deck to open up. As water is clearly visible inside the fixture, I SHOULD have opened it up to clean it out. Obviously, the gasket has failed, allowing water to enter the bulb enclosure. In the niche behind the bulb, there was about 1/2" of mud/algae/rust, which I cleaned out. There is still muddy water inside the light fixture and I am thinking that that is the source of my chlorine loss. (algae growth) I did not open it up as I did not want to spend $20.00 on a new gasket for an old fixture that I have to replace anyway. I probably should have.

    The power is off at both the switch and the breaker, so other than dumping algae into the pool, I guess I can open it up under water and clean the fixture, eventhough it leaks water inside?
    Inground 1800 gallon gunite spa/pool, installed mid 1980s.
    Pentair Clean and Clear Plus 4 cartridge filter Model CCP 240
    Pac Fab Challenger (High head, High flow) 1 1/2 HP pump
    One Jandy valve controlling automatic chlorinator

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