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Thread: ...the next steps - making sure this is correct

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    Need a vacuum recommendation to battle algae

    New pool owner having problems getting the pool to clear up. I've been working with pool store and pool is still not clearing up, still very green. There is some debris on the bottom mostly on either side of the skimmer - at least when I brush it when I see the most debris. Recently bought brush to scrub pool (above ground 14000 gallons - 24 round). Think I might need to vacuum it but sure what to buy without spending too much, but want to get something i won't regret later. I am also second guessing if my sand filter it working but am unsure how to verify it is working correctly. The last couple tests from pool store only indicated it needed more shock and Cyanuric acid. Pool store recommend to start using "no mor problems" algaecide, however there hasn't been much change after 2 treatments. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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    Re: Need a vacuum recommendation to battle algae

    Hey Elwood, I am by no means the expert here so I am going to reserve the exact way to do things for one of them to chime in. However, I will throw my 2 cents in. First you can post here some test results such as free chlorine, CYA, PH etc. If you still have algae evidently you don't have enough free chlorine and to kill all of that you will have to SLAM. You can get the directions to do it correctly here Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain. This is personally how I got rid of my algae problem and never had it again maintaining proper free chlorine levels. You do need to brush and vacuum as mentioned. Be wary of all the products the pool store is going to try to sell you, and I am a little confused why they want you to add CYA at this point of the game. All you need to kick algae is chlorine. I am sure plenty more people will chime in and give you better direction that I....good luck and post pictures when your done!
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    Re: Need a vacuum recommendation to battle algae

    Welcome to TFP! Good to have you here

    As far as the vacuum, most any will do, with the objective being to vacuum in the morning, very slowly so as not to disturb the material too much. It's mostly dead algae "carcasses" and they float easily. Your filter is very likely working just fine, but the algae reproduces quickly adding to the volume. After you're done vacuuming, brush the pool well which also stirs it all up so the filter will get more of it.

    Your bigger problem is that pool $tores are an unreliable source of advice because their objectives are different from yours. Theirs is to make money and the harder your pool is to look after the more they will make.

    This site provides methods generally described as Trouble Free Pool Care. Our objectives are safe pools that sparkle clean and almost never need shock treatments or magic potions from the pool $tore. Also, we don't like all the extra work caused by poor advice.

    If that's what you want, a good place to start is: TFPC for Beginners (you don't need to read the whole thread)
    and Pool School - ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry (concise expertly written description)

    No Mor Problems is a sodium bromide algaecide that throws in a few extra wrinkles, but you can get your pool clean and safe by following TFPC methods with help from experts here, and after the initial cleanup, you'll be amazed how easy it is to look after a pool. It won't go cloudy or green the day before a party, and it will be safe, sparkly and comfortable for swimming every time it's warm enough for swimming.

    If this appeals to you after reading a bit, order a test kit right away, and we'll help you take charge of your pool, for a whole lot less spending on chemicals than you're experiencing.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: Need a vacuum recommendation to battle algae

    Let me condense the above.

    1. You CANNOT clear an algae laden pool with a filter/vacuum - EVER.

    2. Chlorine kills algae - not algaecide.

    3. Get the chemistry right in your pool (especially chlorine) and you can keep the algae away.

    4. You need to immerse yourself in two articles in pool school...
    ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry
    SLAM

    So your big takeaway is to get rid of the notion that filters are the answer when you get algae and embrace the notion that chlorine is the answer.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Need a vacuum recommendation to battle algae

    Elwood:

    While the vacuum may seem like the logical answer, unless your are vacuuming to waste, this will really not help. The first step in any successful SLAM is to have accurate test results. Then a lot of liquid chlorine (bleach). Any strength will do if it is relatively fresh. Daily, you must add enough bleach to bring the pool up to shock level and maintain it there as often as possible. Again, retesting often (at least daily, if not more frequent) to determine how much more liquid chlorine you will need. Time and only time, along with bleach and accurate testing will clear up your pool.

    Other important items are brushing the walls to break up and suspend the algae so the bleach and filter can do it's job. Secondly, backwashing when necessary. Slowly, you will see results. Pictures are a great way to see your overall progress. Here, in the TFP Community, we all love pictures. Also, please do not rely on pool store testing, but your own testing with any of the recommended test kits.
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    Re: Need a vacuum recommendation to battle algae

    Thanks for the tips. So I should really be spending my money on test kit and chlorine (not shock) vs vacuum and time getting water tested at pool store.

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    Re: Need a vacuum recommendation to battle algae

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwoodc5 View Post
    Thanks for the tips. So I should really be spending my money on test kit and chlorine (not shock) vs vacuum and time getting water tested at pool store.
    Vacuuming is important, but will not get rid of your algae. And yes, you should invest in a quality recommended test kit. It is the basis of taking care of a swimming pool. Liquid Chlorine is predictable and has very few side effects. Most of us here at TFP do not recommend shock and rarely use it.

    Pool Store testing is quite often inaccurate, if not even close. On top of this, you usually walk out with chemicals you really do not need, therefore spending extra $$ on maintenance items. In the first year of pool store advice, I was using non-chlorine shock, chlorine shock, phosphate removers, algaecides, etc. The total cost was over $350 just for the maintenance. Bad advice on TA (too high and constantly rising PH). This was without stabilizer, chlorine, frog system and the list goes on. Now in 5 months, my total cost of taking care of the pool is about $300 vs. $900 with the pool store advice.

    Once you are comfortable with the TFP methodology, you will never step foot into a pool store again.
    14,700 gallons IG Pool Vinyl Liner - Octal Circulation System
    Hayward Pro-Series 350 LB. Sand Filter Model # S270T - 2" Plumping
    Hayward CL2002 Chlorinator - Hayward Super Pump 2 HP Model # k48m2n111
    Hayward AQR9 SWG 25K Salt Cell & TF-100 Test Kit + Speed Stir
    Gulfstream HE125RA - 117K BTU Heat Pump - Date of Build is 11-2013

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    Re: Need a vacuum recommendation to battle algae

    Test kit came in!! Here are the results (assuming they are accurate)

    pH - 7.5
    Cya - 0 (although pool store they other day measured 10)
    FC - 1ppm
    Cc - 1ppm
    Tc - 2ppm

    I tried looking at the cya/chlorine chart and wasn't sure how to figure out how much to add. We have a 24ft round pool, about 13500 gallons, with a power flow matrix 1hp 1 speed motor and a hayward sand filter. I was using shock but after a reading see I should switch to bleach. I also and having trouble figuring the strength percentage of the bleach. One of the bleaches I have says "yields 7.9% chlorine". Is this the right number? Based on my test results the cya/chlorine chart doesn't indicate how much chlorine (I'm not quite sure that all the numbers represent either). Any help for moving this SLAM process is helpful. Also, this is pool that hadn't been opened for a year or two prior to me owning he house. There are leaves and I will be going out to buy a leaf eater as there is too many leaves at the bottom of the pool mostly on both sides of the skimmer. I want to get this SLAM process moving bit unsure how to proceed. Also on the chlorine test it seems the longer you wait for it to turn pink the more pink it gets. Is there an amount of time I should wait for the r-0870 to work before adding the r-0871? Thanks for any and all advise in advance.

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    Re: Need a vacuum recommendation to battle algae

    Get a heavy duty leaf net and get out all the solids in your pool....everything you can.

    Please read "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School.

    Please read "SLAM" in Pool School, then start to SLAM your pool.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Need a vacuum recommendation to battle algae

    We're happy to help provided that you do a few things to help make it possible for us to help and get the SLAM done quickly.

    The FC drifts toward pink over time, and it should be completed right away. Perhaps 30 seconds or so to completely finish both FC and CC.

    As Dave mentioned, you need to read the SLAM article, perhaps print it out and keep it handy. Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

    We also need you to add a signature. It has the pool details below each post in the thread. Click the link in my signature "Read before posting" which has the instructions for this.

    The "7.9%" on the bleach is fine, and we know it as 8.25% sodium hypochlorite

    There's a button at the top of each page that says "PoolMath" and you'll need to learn that. You enter your pool volume at the top, and enter your current results under the "Now" column and what you need in the "Target" column.

    You will need 30 ppm CYA to SLAM, so try that one for starters, and let us know what it tells you to add.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: Need a vacuum recommendation to battle algae

    It looks like I need to add 54 oz by weight of stabilizer (I have a 24' round pool ~13500 gallons of water). I measured the CYA again using the TF-100 kit and I was able to see the dot with the cylinder all the way full.

    here were my updated test results from tonight. It looks like the combination of using the leaf eater and recent HOT weather the pH has gone up.
    ph - 8.0
    TC - 1.5
    cc - .5
    FC - 1
    CYA - 0
    hardness - 325
    Alkalinity - 120

    So if I am understanding the SLAM instructions this should be the plan of action

    1 - get pH to 7.2 - 22 oz of muratic acid -
    - do you add it diluted all at once or break the 22oz into 3 smaller doses that totals 22 oz?

    2 - Add Stabilizer - 54 oz of stabilizer
    - the bottle says to add the stabilizer directly to the water, I saw on the forum lots of folks add the total dosage into a sock and place it in the skimmer to dissolve

    3 - Add Bleach - 62 oz of 8% bleach - All all at once in front of the return
    Richmond, VA
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    ...the next steps - making sure this is correct

    here were my updated test results from tonight. It looks like the combination of using the leaf eater and recent HOT weather the pH has gone up.
    ph - 8.0
    TC - 1.5
    cc - .5
    FC - 1
    CYA - 0
    hardness - 325
    Alkalinity - 120

    So if I am understanding the SLAM instructions this should be the plan of action

    1 - get pH to 7.2 - 22 oz of muratic acid -
    - do you add it diluted all at once or break the 22oz into 3 smaller doses that totals 22 oz?

    2 - Add Stabilizer - 54 oz of stabilizer
    - the bottle says to add the stabilizer directly to the water, I saw on the forum lots of folks add the total dosage into a sock and place it in the skimmer to dissolve

    3 - Add Bleach - 62 oz of 8% bleach - All all at once in front of the return
    Richmond, VA
    TF-100 Test Kit
    24' Round Above Ground (~13,500 gallons)
    Hayward Powerflow Matrix 1 HP
    Hayward S180T Sand Filter

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    Re: ...the next steps - making sure this is correct

    Your pH is most likely rising from your high TA, not the heat. If this "leaf eater" is making a lot of bubbles and you use it all day long that will contribute to pH rise.

    Why are you going to SLAM? Do you have visible algae? Have you failed an OCLT?

    Dom
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    Re: Need a vacuum recommendation to battle algae

    So off into the SLAM. Good plan.

    This link has info on chemical adding methods. Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

    If it was me, acid poured slowly in front of a return, all of it. Stabilizer: backwash first, then in a sock, hanging in front of a return (avoids any risk of liner discoloration, or CYA accumulating in the filter undissolved). And yep to bleach.

    I checked quantities, and it looks like you're planning 30 ppm CYA.

    To go from pH 8 with TA 120 down to pH 7.2, I get more acid needed (based on 31% MA). You might need to set your TA to 120, before getting the correct recommendation in PoolMath

    And for 12 ppm FC, raised from 1 ppm FC, I also get higher bleach needed (based on 8.25%). Your amount is a typical daily amount of 3 ppm FC.

    So muck around with PoolMath a bit more. It's a great tool, amazing really, but certainly does take a few goes to get comfortable with it.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: ...the next steps - making sure this is correct

    It would be very helpful if you would keep all of your questions on one thread. Let's use this one.

    I would like to check your numbers, but I can't get your numbers to line up for pH. What are you using for your goal?

    I DO get 54 oz by weight (56oz by volume which is much easier to measure) for CYA.
    I also get 62oz 8% for going from 1-4ppm.

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    Re: Need a vacuum recommendation to battle algae

    Please do not multi-post, it just makes things confusing.

    ...the next steps - making sure this is correct

    Dom
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: ...the next steps - making sure this is correct

    It would actually be best to use the original thread to keep all info together.

    Need a vacuum recommendation to battle algae

    Dom
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: ...the next steps - making sure this is correct

    Apparently the threads have already been merged.

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    Re: ...the next steps - making sure this is correct

    So the last couple days I've gotten most (still can't see bottom) the leaves out with the leaf eater and I've finally put enough bleach in to bring the water to shock level after getting ph low enough and stabilizer to 30. Now that the work week has started I'll only be able to add bleach in the mornings and evenings, so hopefully that doesn't mess up the slam.

    I am still worried about my filter and would hate to be doing this if there was a problem. I have been noticing while vacuuming when the water going through the pump turns green/black sometimes, only when its picked a lot of stuff up, the return to the pool is getting dirty water back into the pool. It seems to happen when there's a spot on the bottom that's real bad. Keep in mind I can only see about a foot or so into the water. Hopefully you guys can reassure me the filter is still good and the slam iswill take vare if the rest.

    Thanks again for all the help along the way.
    Richmond, VA
    TF-100 Test Kit
    24' Round Above Ground (~13,500 gallons)
    Hayward Powerflow Matrix 1 HP
    Hayward S180T Sand Filter

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    Re: ...the next steps - making sure this is correct

    We use the Poolblaster Catfish vacuum, has worked fine for the past year. Doesn't get rid of algae (only chlorine does that) but it does vacuum up leaves and debris quite nicely.
    AGP 33' x 54" Lomart Verona, Approx. 27,300 gallons, Pentair cartridge filter/pump 2-speed, 1.5 hp, Dolphin Escape robotic cleaner.

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