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Thread: Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

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    Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    I'm three weeks into being an above ground pool owner and got shocked tonight. I have an Intex 16' with the 1500 gph pump and an swg. I was standing on very wet ground playing around with hose configurations (duel inlets) so I could vacuum. The pump was on but the swg was not. I touched the Intex return valve to shut the flow off when it shocked me. It was a hard constant jolt until I let it go.

    I buried #8 copper wire 18" away and 4" deep around the pool a few days ago and attached it with copper bonding lugs with stainless steel screws to four of the sixteen pool uprights. I coiled the remaining 6-8 feet and buried it under the concrete pavers that the pump and swg are sitting on. I have not bonded the water yet as I haven't decided if I am going to install a thru wall skimmer yet.

    Is the lack of water bonding the reason I felt the shock?
    Is there a way to bond the Intex pump and the swg?
    I do not want anyone else to get shocked so is there anything else I need to concern myself with to provide a safe environment to ourselves and guests?

    I unplugged the pump and swg tonight since i will have a couple friends of mine in the backyard tomorrow finishing my privacy fence. Furthermore, I am going to follow the wire of the exterior outlet the pool equipment is plugged into to make sure it is properly grounded; I know not all of my outlets are grounded in a 50+ year old house. I am on pier and beam so this is easy.
    Thanks everyone and thank you for pool school!
    Above ground 16' by 48" Intex. 5,200 gallons. Intex 1500 gph pump and the intex swg.

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    Re: Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    Don't quite understand what shocked you, as almost all the pieces on Intex equipment are plastic?? Also, you should never turn a valve with the pump running. Sounds like there is an electrical issue with either your pump or your SWG. I'd make sure of that before doing anything else. Bonding an Intex pool seems overkill (no pun intended...) to me, but I guess better safe than sorry.
    Intex Ultra Frame 24'x12'x52" (732cm x 366cm) rectangular pool
    Intex SF80220RC (1600 GPH) pump/sandfilter
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    Intex Automatic Pool Cleaner
    Intex 8220 ECO SWG, Brilix XHP100 9kW heatpump

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    Re: Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    The shock came from two different voltage potentials equalizing thru the conductor between them. In this case the conductor was the human. This is not a good thing. The water was at a certain voltage potential and since it is inside of a vinyl shell (effectively isolated) it can not equalize with the voltage potential of the ground around the pool. A water bond will need to be installed to prevent this in the future.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mickelin View Post
    Bonding an Intex pool seems overkill (no pun intended...) to me, but I guess better safe than sorry.
    Electricity does not care what type of pool you own. Voltage potentials and gradients exist all over in the universe. Large conductive masses such as pools of water and the earth itself all contain voltage potentials. For the most part these equalize out or are so small that you do not feel them. In the case of a pool that is isolated from the earth these potentials/gradients can be significant.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    TomGallopavo's Avatar
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    Re: Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    I don't know about Intex pools but I used this thing...
    Spring 2016 Install, 24'x54" Saltwater LX AG Round Pool (13500 gal.), AquaPro 200 SQ. FT. Cartridge Filter System 2-HP 2-Speed Pump, Solaxx Saltron Retro Jet RJ Saltwater Chlorine Generator, Aqualuminator Above Ground Pool Light, TF-100 Test Kit w/ Borate and Salt, Well Water.

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    Re: Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    In the absence of a pool skimmer to use the water bug fitting above you can use this fitting what will install into the pipes to you pipe with minor effort.
    https://www.amazon.com/Perma-Cast-PB...T61G0TWGVW8T1J

    You did a good job doing the bonding of the rest of your equipment but the water bond is a very important part of that loop you have left out.

    If your outdoor outlet is lacking a proper grounding connection even if you have a gfci device outside it wont work without a proper ground connection.

    Make sure your bonding loop and your equipment grounding loop are isolated from each other. The bonding point of a pump is not the same thing as the green equipment grounding screw. The same goes for the SWG.
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    Quote Originally Posted by CJadamec View Post

    If your outdoor outlet is lacking a proper grounding connection even if you have a gfci device outside it wont work without a proper ground connection.
    What won't work right? The GFCI? GFCI's do not need a ground wire to work properly.
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    Thanks for the water bonding ideas; I'll get that done asap. The Intex pump and swg do not have any bonding lugs. Intex says they are double insulated, whatever that means, so do not need bonding. Has anyone figured a way to bond them anyway? I buried the coiled up remains of the copper wire under the pump in case I ever get a pump with a bonding lug. It just seams that not bonding the pump and swg leaves out another important part in the loop.


    Above ground 16' by 48" Intex. 5,200 gallons. Intex 1500 gph pump and the intex swg.

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    Re: Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    Do you own a multimeter? If yes we can isolate the problem.

    But you said you felt a strong shock. That is a concern because that may be more than stray voltage or leaks from the PDS.

    Feeling a shock means you have two problems. Lack of bonding and a source for power. I suggest you have an electrician run down that source.

    Also you should always bond the water if you are bonding anything else. If you use the in pipe bond place it as close to the pool as possible.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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    Re: Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    Sorry you are correct a GFCI will function with out a ground in that it will sense a difference in current between the two wires hooked up to it and trip.

    That being said having protection from an un-grounded gfci is better than nothing but not nearly the same as having one properly grounded. If a device is wired from the factory with a 3 prong plug it is meant to be used exclusively in a 3 wire system of hot neutral and ground.

    Don't all the intex pumps come pre-wired with a 3-prong gfci device on the cord? or do some ship with only a plug end.

    A double insulated motor is just that, there are two independent layers of insulation between the voltage and outer casing of the motor. They are acceptable for use but not as safe as an insulted motor with a grounded frame. Intex may be skirting the issue a bit as the 2014 nec code says any pool over 42" is considered permanent and needs to have the equipment bonded. In the past it used to be a 48" height limit which excluded all of the intex products.
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

    Photos of 2016 Build, Inside Your Breaker Panel, Free Copy of 2017 NEC code
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    Re: Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    CJadamek, they do indeed come with a 3 prong gfci on the end of the 20 foot power cord.






    Above ground 16' by 48" Intex. 5,200 gallons. Intex 1500 gph pump and the intex swg.

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    Re: Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    Here's how my electrician bonded my pool to city specs:
    Copper wire starting point is screwed to pool upright, goes underground the entire diameter of pool.
    Comes up out of the ground and runs through the water bonding fitting and ends screwed to back of motor.




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    Re: Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    My only question regarding the photo above showing the water bonding fitting in the pvc pipe, is; Is the bonding defeated when the inlet and outlet valves are closed? ( I am assuming the above pool has valves on both the inlet and outlet)
    Intex 22' X 52" Ultra Frame AGP ( 12K gallons) , Intex 633T 2500 GPH (41 GPM) running Doughboy Silica II sand filter (16"dia. 1.4 ' S.A.) ( And doing it quite well, I might add!) Hayward through the wall skimmer, TF100 with Speed Stir. Hard plumbed, Intex fountain ...........

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    Re: Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    Quote Originally Posted by philc View Post
    My only question regarding the photo above showing the water bonding fitting in the pvc pipe, is; Is the bonding defeated when the inlet and outlet valves are closed? ( I am assuming the above pool has valves on both the inlet and outlet)
    No valves.
    I guess the only protection occurs when the pump is running.

    Trevi 209 21'x52" Above Ground Pool.
    Hayward Power-Flo LX Pump model # SP1580FP. 1 HP (60 GPM)
    Hayward High Rate Pro Sand Filter model # S166T (25 GPM filtration rate) .
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL Valve.
    No test kit yet.

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    Re: Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    Is your pump hardwired in? I would check the connection if you're confident, make sure the wires haven't separated from the lugs.
    25,000 Gallons Inground, Gunite
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    Re: Got electrical shock tonight and have bonding questions

    Weldo: Do you still have a problem? I would have an electrician or pool store shop take a long hard look at the motor. If its double insulated and on a GFCI you should not be getting a shock. So someone need to look closely at it. Pictures would be helpful.

    Juicemann: That is not a compliant water bond. Because it is possible for the pump or the filter to isolate the water bond it would not pass inspection in most jurisdictions. The water bond should either be in the pool or directly adjacent to the pool. On your return fitting would be best here.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

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