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Thread: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

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    Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    Recently moved into a home with a preexisting pool, no history or paperwork left with the home so just trying to wrap my head around our setup. Everything is in the current position from the previous owners with the exception of the valve on the far right which was the aerator. I did turn that off as it was driving the PH higher then it should be.
    I am currently wondering what position the jandy valve is in and what it controls? I did read up on the jandy valves and know their theory of operation. currently it looks like its in between two settings. Our pool is setup with two main drains, one skimmer, 3 return jets, and a vacuum port.

    Also is there a recommended procedure for back flushing? IE shutting the jandy valve off etc?

    pictures should help alot! I do apologize ahead of time if this is a very basic question, Im a pool newbie!



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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    That Jandy valve is in a bad position, it is partially blocking off the main suction line which is never good. The handle should always be on the half toward the pump.

    My guess is that one side of that valve is from the skimmer/floor and the other side is from the vacuum port. Under the skimmer basket you would see 2 holes, one is from the floor and one is to the skimmer. There should be a float diverter sitting over the holes under the basket to divert some suction to the floor.

    If you are not running the vacuum, then I would have that pipe closed off with the Jandy (note the handle says OFF where it is shutting off). When you are running the vacuum, you likely need to partially close off the skimmer/floor pipe to have adequate suction through the cleaner.

    For backwashing, you would not change the Jandy valve.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    I did look in the skimmer the other day and there is no diverter in there, simply two open pipes under the basket. Not sure if its missing or? I do have a vacuum port in the pool itself instead of hooking it up inside the skimmer like I have seen on some other pools

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    Sounds like you are missing the float diverter which is needed if you want any flow coming from the floor.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    I've never seen the slide valve used on a sand filter with the slide locked in the "up" position. Congrats on not having to fool with a multiport valve.
    25K aggregate IG, Intellipro, FNS48, Polaris 360, PG2000 fiber optic light source

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    Wait, is that even running through the filter?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    I had to do a double take there too Jason. But according to Figure #3 here - Sta-Rite Two Position Slide Valve - it works correctly. (Link to PDF)

    I would have plumbed it according to Figure #2. Hmm, I do learn something new every day I visit here.
    Last edited by proavia; 07-12-2016 at 11:43 PM. Reason: Fixed link
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle View Post
    Sounds like you are missing the float diverter which is needed if you want any flow coming from the floor.
    You sir are correct, I can see the pipe closest to the pool points towards the drain itself, the other pipe points towards the pump. So it appears the floor drain hits the skimmer on one pipe and then heads to the pump itself.

    I also figured out why the jandy valve is in the position its in. If I crank it wide open(handle pointing at the pump) there is so much flow that the skimmer will run dry and the pump will pull air. If I shut off the skimmer circuit the vacuum pulls so much water it will crawl up the wall to the water line and pull air. If shutting off the vacuum circuit completely the skimmer runs dry and pull air as well. Seems like I really need that diverter valve to be able to dial in the flow from each section. I see there are several options out there, are they pretty universal or are they specific to the brand of skimmer? I can not find any brand naming on the skimmer itself.

    Looks like this has been missing for a little bit, why someone would remove a part that is obviously needed is beyond me



    Quote Originally Posted by proavia View Post
    I had to do a double take there too Jason. But according to Figure #3 here - Sta-Rite Two Position Slide Valve - it works correctly. (Link to PDF)

    I would have plumbed it according to Figure #2. Hmm, I do learn something new every day I visit here.
    Thanks for that link! That helps me trace down the flow and use of my setup!

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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    The diverter is specific to the manufacturer and probably the model number of the skimmer too. Look at the underside of the skimmer lid. There may be a manufacturer and model number there.

    If the skimmer is running dry, many times it's because the pool water level is too low. Water lever should be half to three quarters up on the weir plate (skimmer door).
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    I did check the skimmer lid for a manufacture and did not see one, I will check again and see if I can pull a model number or match the lid itself to something.

    First thing I did was check water level when the skimmer sucked itself dry, I bumped the level up slightly since it was a tad low. Its 3/4 up the weir plate currently. Current water level in the skimmer is only about half to 3/4 up the basket. That did not seem to change the result of the issue I was having. Ill see if I can track down the diverter plate and go from there. That is obviously causing some issues for me currently.

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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    Current water level in the skimmer is only about half to 3/4 up the basket.
    Do you mean the actual removable basket?
    Is this with the pump running?

    Check that the weir is totally free moving - no binding or rubbing from fully closed to fully open and back again. Water level should stay above the top edge of the removable basket with pump running.

    Please update your signature with your pool and equipment info as outlined here: Pool School - Read This BEFORE You Post
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    Quote Originally Posted by proavia View Post
    Do you mean the actual removable basket?
    Is this with the pump running?

    Check that the weir is totally free moving - no binding or rubbing from fully closed to fully open and back again. Water level should stay above the top edge of the removable basket with pump running.

    Please update your signature with your pool and equipment info as outlined here: Pool School - Read This BEFORE You Post
    yes sir that is correct and with the pump running. It its off and static the water level is correct with the pool level. Ill check out the weir and make sure its working as it should

    I honestly think some of that issue is the diverter valve missing and being able to set my jandy valve correctly. Im not able to balance my flow between the drain and skimmer correctly without it. I have some info on my lid that I will try and cross reference to find the right diverter.

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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    If you have trouble cross referencing on your own, give the folks at InyoPools a call. They have been very helpful to other members when needing to track the correct part down.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    10.4 thanks for the tip, Ill check into them for sure. I think I have stumbled on their website recently actually.
    10k gal, IG Plaster, 3/4HP WhisperFlo pump, A.0 Smith Centurion single speed motor, Pentair TritonII sand filter, TF100 test kit, Hayward suction cleaner, City well water

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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    Found a diverter locally and got that installed today. I did find the weir door to be stuck closed as well. Got everything freed up and its mucho better now. I can run the jandy valve in any position without issue and skimming is ten times better(not that it was terrible before) it will clear the pool in a few mins rather then several hours.

    Before I found the weir door stuck I switched to skimmer/drain and the water level dropped below the basket and actually engaged the diverter To close off the skimmer and pull from the main protecting the pump like it should. Before the diverter I was able to suck air by doing that! So it's a good thing I got that installed!

    She is running well with a backwash and dialed in flow to the vacuum and skimmer. Now the take a dip and cool off from 115* summer day!

    thanks for all the tips and advice! This website has been great for a beginner like me!
    10k gal, IG Plaster, 3/4HP WhisperFlo pump, A.0 Smith Centurion single speed motor, Pentair TritonII sand filter, TF100 test kit, Hayward suction cleaner, City well water

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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    Great! Always nice to know the diverter works as it should.

    If the weir gets stuck again, you can carefully trim it or even sand down the area where it's sticking.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    1) The black plate of the three way jandy valve has the word "inlet" in raised letters on the plate that has all the screws going around it, this word has to be positioned in front of the center pipe that threads into the front of the pump, this will then only allow 180' movement of the handle to isolate the vac line, or the skimmer line, or something in between that properly regulates the correct amount of vacuum required to balance the pool cleaner and skimmer together, the priority goes to the pool cleaner when adjustment is made not the skimmer.

    2) while the skimmer can be isolated from the pool cleaner (cleaner shut off), the pool cleaner should not be isolated from the skimmer, as this will create to much vacuum for the cleaner, and exceed the 1'' of vacuum per section of hose attached to the cleaner, recommended for vac setting, ( 8 sections of hose = 8'' of vacuum) an easy way to balance skimmer and vac is by listening to the pump as you turn the black jandy handle, when pool cleaner has reached its proper adjustment, it will begin to make the pump noise increase slightly, this is when you stop turning the handle.

    3) in order for the handle to be in the position its in on your pic, can only happen if the word inlet is not lined up directly in front of the center pipe, or if the handle has been lifted up enough to allow it to get past the stops on the plate, by turning the knob on top of the handle that when tight prevents unwanted turning of handle

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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    Weir doors are one of the most misunderstood, overlooked, neglected parts of a swimming pool, they improve the efficiency of the skimmers ability to pull surface debris into the basket when the pump is on. When properly installed and in good condition, the weir door can dramatically improve the leave, floating debris problems that many pool owners have battled for years because there's was missing, or stuck, etc. and at a low cost when a replacement is required.

    Aftermarket weir doors that are more installer friendly are referred to as "spring loaded doors"

    weir doors are prone to abuse by swimmers, like curious youngsters, vandals, etc. resulting in breakage, or alignment issues that can cause them to get stuck in a variety of undesirable positions, routine inspections should be included.

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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    Now as i understand it, you do not have a suction type pool cleaner installed that normally connects to the "dedicated line" ( or vac port as you call it ) on the pool wall, at one point there most likely was a pool-vac, barracuda, kreepy, etc that came with the pool when new, dedicated lines are the best way to get maximum performance from a suction style pool cleaner, when compared to there unpredictable and inefficient operation when the cleaner is forced to share the suction resources from the skimmer, which makes both cleaner and skimmer very inefficient and problematic.

    If you have children, you should cover the vac port by threading in whats known as a "vac-loc" or be certain the vac port is off, if there is suction being pulled from an exposed open vac port line and a child's hand gets grabbed by the suction it is capable of, ouch.

    Because you have the dedicated line installed, it would benefit you greatly to purchase a suction style pool cleaner this will eliminate the manual cleaning required now, it is uncommon to see a pool today that does not have some type of automatic cleaner, many ,many pool service company's will not service a pool without one.

    There are two situations here,
    the first is your current one, and it is regarding the diverter valve, your not pulling as much suction from the main drains as you think you are, look inside the skimmer, i am sure you will notice water movement indicating the skimmer has the majority of the suction from the pump, any suction resources left for the main drains via the diverter valve are minimal, and further weakened by the fact that two main drains tie into the one pipe, there function is highly overated, the only true way to have optimal drain pull from the bottom is to have the drain separate and on its own dedicated valve by the pump.
    Ask yourself will you benifit more from surface skimming? if so, 86 the diverter valve, the precious resources you give up for that, vs the minimal effectiveness applied to drains with valve in place will make more sense if you have leaf, debris demand on surface, etc.

    However, if you grasp the diverter and hold it in such a way as to keep the float (the 4'' diameter part that rattles inside diverter when holding it in your hand while shaking it) steady with your fingers spread around the floats perimeter as you carefully lower inside skimmer to cover the two pipes, as it falls into place over the pipes in skimmer you should notice a strong grab from the suction pipe and notice the water movement inside skimmer is calm indicating the float has now been stuck in position by suction and it will maximize the pull from the drain, this takes some practice to do, and will only stay like that as long as pump does not shut off. this is the only way to improve the suction to the drain over just placing the valve in skimmer.
    This might be helpful when brushing dust etc towards drains.


    situation #2
    if and when you get a cleaner for the dedicated line, the diverter valve is no longer needed, the pool vac moving along the floor is sucking things up as it goes, removing the diverter provides a stronger skimmer pull now that it doesn't have to share any of its, albeit, minimal resources with drain funtion, and can pull surface debris better as a result, get it.


    I'm done.

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    Re: Trying to get a handle on my plumbing setup

    if when isolating the skimmer from the cleaner (turning cleaner off) you notice the skimmer unable to keep water inside, it usually means low pool water level, or possible weir door problem, maintain water level at minimum middle of tile line, or 1/2'' higher, not so high though as to go above skimmer throat opening.

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