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Thread: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

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    Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    Ok obviously NOT!!! lol.... figured ill get some attention though... sorry for the insulting title though... lol..

    now that i got your attention can anyone give me some suggestions... My pool was completed and started the beginning of June... i have been doing all the test myself using the TFP-100 kit... i can honestly say i understand the whole pool math and everything else but i can assure you i am no expert and definitely don't feel capable of giving other people suggestions, I'm just know the basics.

    My SWG was started maybe a week or two ago.... i have it at 50% setting... yes i still manually add some bleach to keep up at times but very seldom. I have no way to checking for salt yet. So i decided to take a water sample to the store today to get a salt sample and thought to myself well might aswell compare their results with mine...

    Here is the pool store results:

    FC 2
    TC 2
    Salt 4800
    CH 400
    CYA 60
    TA 80
    pH 7.6
    copper 0
    Iron 0
    Phosphates 300

    my results using TFP-100 kit

    pH 7.8
    FC 1.5
    CC 0
    CH 575
    TA 80
    CYA <20

    here is where i need help, every since i been using my TFP-100 kit my CYA has been low, i can fill the whole tube and i can clearly see the black dot.... about 10days ago i added 4 lbs of granular CYA with sock in skimmer method... and my CYA still shows <20... so i finally ordered a gallon of liquid CYA stabilizer from amazon, i have not added it yet but my plan was to do it today but now that i see the pool store result of 60 CYA i am having to doubt my own sampling technique... I have seen the video and i run the CYA test multiple times and it has always came <20......

    also my CH has always been above 500 since i been sampling, and store showed 400......

    the pool store said my results looks good and the only thing that needs attention is my Phosphates cause they are high, luckily he had a few gallons already sitting on the counter that the label read "weekly Phosphate free" for only $59, which he strongly considered.... lol..... no i did not buy anything.... when i walked in i told him i had a new pool an this was my first sample bringing in the store and told him i would hand the results to my PB to make sure what I can add to avoid any warranty dilemma..... figured i needed a way to avoid his sales pitch...

    thank you in advance...
    2016 pool build.... 18k gal. freeform style, built in round table, 18" jumping platform, travertine coping upgrade, travertine waterline, peagravel decking, saltwater pool (no spa), Quartzscape blue., 1.5hp Pentair pump, JANDY SWG, 48sqft Pentair DE filter, TFP-100 kit w/speedstir MYPoolBuild

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    What is the volume of your pool? Add it to your signature.

    How much stabilizer have you added in total?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    updated sig...

    I have only added 4 lbs granular CYA total.....

    i have a one gallon of liquid stabilizer and 3 lbs of granular CYA on hand ready to add after some advice.
    2016 pool build.... 18k gal. freeform style, built in round table, 18" jumping platform, travertine coping upgrade, travertine waterline, peagravel decking, saltwater pool (no spa), Quartzscape blue., 1.5hp Pentair pump, JANDY SWG, 48sqft Pentair DE filter, TFP-100 kit w/speedstir MYPoolBuild

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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    Maybe try getting some of the CYA 50ppm standard solution to get a feel for what the black dot should look like.

    The cya standard reagent is R-7065. You basically do your normal cya test but substitute the pool water with the R-7065 and use your regular R-0013 cya reagent to measure the CYA.

    Since the R-7065 is calibrated to exactly 50ppm, you can get a feel for what the black dot should look like when you fill up the test tube to the 50ppm mark.



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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    the calc at the bottom of the pool math page shows 4 lb should have raised the cya 27ppm for 18k vol. Are you sure the pool builder did not add any CYA and you have added ONLY 4 lb? If so, your test of 20 may not be that far off; if you read other posts here, the cya test is one of the harder to get right. You did say you added it 10 days ago, so that should be plenty of time for it to mix.
    30000 gal inground vinyl liner;sand filter w/glass media, nuvo uv, TF-100 test kit; 25 years on Baquacil, converted to TFP chlorine in 2016

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    So no stabilizer was added for startup?

    That 4 pounds in 18k gallons will have added 27ppm of CYA.
    What kind/size filter do you have? Add it to your signature

    Did you clean the filter after adding the stabilizer? Have you have a lot of rain since you added the stabilizer?

    1 gallon of liquid stabilizer will add 21ppm of CYA. Even after that, you are still not going to be up close to the recommended 70-80ppm range for a SWG.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by ap2002 View Post
    updated sig...

    I have only added 4 lbs granular CYA total.....

    i have a one gallon of liquid stabilizer and 3 lbs of granular CYA on hand ready to add after some advice.
    Your pool is 18,000 gallons? Your 4 pounds of stabilizer will raise your CYA by less than 30. So your testing maybe fine. How sure are you of that 18,000 gallon volume? If it's more, then yeah, your CYA could very well be measuring at 20. Generally CYA readings are not the most accurate (and doesn't need to be), so a +- of 10 ppm is acceptable. Also, that CYA level is low for SWG. Pool stores are notorious for incorrect CYA test. I trust your reading more than the one they gave you.

    GC
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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    For 18000 gallons, PoolMath calculates 4lb of granular should add 25 CYA. Personally, I would be inclined to add the 3lb of granular CYA, which would get you to approximately 45. Which is within the TFP recommendation of 30-50.
    Maybe your gallon estimate is off?
    Honestly, trust yourself before anything from pool store.
    I also recommend getting a salt tester so you can get a good reading for it.
    Let's see what jbizzle has to say about CYA...he is a better authority than I.


    Free form 17X30. 14,500 Gal. Pentair sand filter and 1.5 hp pump. Aqua-Rite SWCG. TF-100 Test Kit w/Speed Stir

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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    Not sure but I'm going to go with no CYA added during startup... I just back washed my filter yesterday which was 10+days since granular was added. No rain but I have added some water but not much at all just enough to replace what has been splashed while kids swimming.
    2016 pool build.... 18k gal. freeform style, built in round table, 18" jumping platform, travertine coping upgrade, travertine waterline, peagravel decking, saltwater pool (no spa), Quartzscape blue., 1.5hp Pentair pump, JANDY SWG, 48sqft Pentair DE filter, TFP-100 kit w/speedstir MYPoolBuild

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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    Please do not put the CYA in the skimmer. You have a DE filter and the CYA can get caught in the filter and the CYA could have been backwashed. CYA is acidic and you don't want to expose your DE grids to acidic water.

    Trust your results and add some more CYA. This time, please put the CYA in sock and hang it front of a return.
    Karen
    33K IG w spa plaster, Pentair 1HP Whisperflo, DE Filter, SWG CircuPool RJ-60, Dolphin Triton Plus, Raypak Dig 336K BTU, TF-100.
    Pool Math Chlorine / CYA Chart SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    Sorry, yes I did put it in sock and put in the skimmer though, I will do the sock but on the return this next time..

    im not accurate on the 18k gallon. It's what I was quoted by PB. When we started filling 40days ago I did write down the starting meter gallons but never went back to check what was it when full. I just went out to check the meter and we are at 23k gallons total that includes the pool being filled and 40days of house use with family of 5 plus the occasional fill of the pool and maybe 5 back washes since then.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What salt tester is best recommended? I needed to go ahead and order one to get me away from pool store results.
    2016 pool build.... 18k gal. freeform style, built in round table, 18" jumping platform, travertine coping upgrade, travertine waterline, peagravel decking, saltwater pool (no spa), Quartzscape blue., 1.5hp Pentair pump, JANDY SWG, 48sqft Pentair DE filter, TFP-100 kit w/speedstir MYPoolBuild

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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    Ap, Pentair has a pretty good pool volume calculator. Pool Volume Calculator | PENTAIR
    Marla
    No longer living vicariously through other people's pool builds. Pool build is complete on my IG SWCG pool, approx 10,000 gallons. All Jandy equipment - VS 1.5 hp pump, 580 cartridge filter, AquaPure 1400 salt cell, AquaLink PDA system. Dolphin m500. PebbleSheen Blue Surf with shells and beads added. TF-100 w/ SpeedStir. A Houston Pool Build Inside the Loop

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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    Aqua Chek salt strips and Taylor K-1766 Salt Test Kit are both available through TFTestKits.net.
    25,000 gallon freeform gunnite/plaster, built in the 1970s/80s; Sta-Rite 9463004 575-lb. sand filter; Sta-Rite DuraGlas/Max-E-Glas (P2RA5F-125L) single-speed 1.5 HP pump, manufactured 12/1993 (1M93M).
    Helpful links: TFTestKits; Pool School; ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry; Chlorine/CYA Chart; PoolMath; SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    The most accurate way to test salt is the K-1766. You can get it from TF Test Kits here: TFTestkits.net

    Some folks don't test their salt level and as long as your SWG is producing chlorine don't worry about the salt level. I have the K-1766 and the read out on my SWG doesn't always match. The salinity on the SWG varies depending on the temperature of the water.
    Karen
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    Putting the sock in the skimmer should not have caused any problems. When I was adding 6 pounds, I hade some socks hanging in the return jet and some in the skimmer ... no worries.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    Hey jb, yes you are of course correct. But the concern is losing any undissolved stabilizer when backwashing. If he didn't backwash, then obviously it's fine. Safer to advise that the sock be placed in front of a return. That's just my humble opinion, and 2 cents Canadian.

    GC
    13'x22'x52" 8,000 gallon ProSeries Pool with Borates
    Intex 110 pound Sand Filter with Zeobrite, 2650 gph pump, 0.95 hp
    Bestway SWG
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    I used a thick sock and found that the CYA showed up on the test within 24 hours. So it if made it out of my sock it appears that it could not get trapped in the filter and lost to cleaning.

    Now if you used a very loose weave sock that let larger particles out, then that could possibly be a problem. But, behind the scenes we were doing some experiments and it appeared that CYA sitting in the filter was actually showing up on the test fairly quickly (faster than we previously thought it would).

    The nice thing about the sock is that you know when it is dissolved and should show up on the test very soon after that.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    Oh I am not disputing that, and I have no arguments against that method. For you, and pool owners who are aware of the POSSIBILITY of loss due to backwash, it isn't an issue. But I have read stories on here of members SLAMing their pool with no CYA. Other members have suggested they add CYA, and they proceeded to add it to the skimmer. Of course, SLAMing requires frequent backwashes, and BAM, undissolved CYA lost in the backwash.

    GC
    13'x22'x52" 8,000 gallon ProSeries Pool with Borates
    Intex 110 pound Sand Filter with Zeobrite, 2650 gph pump, 0.95 hp
    Bestway SWG
    AquaPro ECO500 50,000 BTU heat pump
    GLI Whirlwind Solar Cover Reel, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    thank you all for the great advice and recommendations, i will only add the gallon of CYA first, i would like to feel confident running the CYA sample myself and make sure i am getting a reading slowly, then i will do the rest with granular CYA in the sock...

    just to make it clear, i also used a thick sock while doing this, so i know it was completely dissolved before it even made it out the sock with the occasional squeeze on the sock to help it dissolve better.
    2016 pool build.... 18k gal. freeform style, built in round table, 18" jumping platform, travertine coping upgrade, travertine waterline, peagravel decking, saltwater pool (no spa), Quartzscape blue., 1.5hp Pentair pump, JANDY SWG, 48sqft Pentair DE filter, TFP-100 kit w/speedstir MYPoolBuild

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    Re: Converted to store method instead of TFP..... sorry

    For the CYA Test:

    Make sure water is 70 degrees or warmer.
    Full sunshine day, back to the sun, vial waist level, holding vial with two fingers.
    Pour sample to first mark, check to see if you see the dot, pour to the next mark, check to see if you see the dot, etc.
    You can pour the sample back and forth if you are uncomfortable and want to recheck your results or have some else repeat the test.
    Karen
    33K IG w spa plaster, Pentair 1HP Whisperflo, DE Filter, SWG CircuPool RJ-60, Dolphin Triton Plus, Raypak Dig 336K BTU, TF-100.
    Pool Math Chlorine / CYA Chart SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
    2017 replaster/retile

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