yes! exactly. that is the reason why I was hoping to do it this way, because I'd like to store the pump indoors during the winter months. Now, may I ask is your pump bonded?
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IG pump plugged into outlet
- Thread starter loomer
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I concur with your assessment of no bonding wire. The lug for that motor is under the black plastic cap at the rear, which means it should be easily visible in the picture. You're going to need to get that bonded, which means finding your existing pool bond and connecting them. I would also rip out that manual switch and replace it with a timer so the filter runs consistently every day.
Also, are you positive that's an L5-20? I ask because it looks a bit big, which would probably make it an L6-30 (220V/30A).
Also, are you positive that's an L5-20? I ask because it looks a bit big, which would probably make it an L6-30 (220V/30A).
Actually 220 volts isn't more efficient than 120 volts, it just lets you run smaller wiring. In the OP's case, the wiring is already ran and the breaker is already installed, so there's no benefit in changing to 220 volts.
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The other end would be attached to the bonding grid around the pool.
It's possible that there is no bonding wire at the pad, and it's also possible that there is no bonding grid around the pool.
Do you know when the pool was built?
And do you know if permits were required when the pool was built?
Yes. Definitely an L5-20. Read it right off the plug. And yes.. I did notice that lug under the cap.
So how do I find the existing bond? It's an older pool. I believe originally constructed in the early 60s. Would it be info the Township has?
Yep. Will be getting a timer as well.
Thank u!
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The bonding wire would be attached to any bonding around the pool. Required to be attached to the bonding system is the pool water, the pool shell, any metal parts near/in the water (metal ladders, underwater lights), the metal in a poured patio around the pool or a "halo" wire around the pool in the ground if there is no poured patio. The electrical theory is that all surfaces/parts in or around the pool are connected together so that they are all at the same electrical potential.
Now, if the pool was built in the 60's none of this would be in place. Bonding was not required at that time.
All electrical devices must be installed according to the manufacturers instructions in order to meet code. Just because an installation method "will work" doesn't count according to the code. An electrician may do something knowing it will work, but that may not meet code because it won't be inspected. TFP can't endorse methods we may feel will work, but are technically wrong if we know they are wrong.
We could chase little details like this all day, but what we really need to do is make folks aware of bonding and the importance it plays in the electrical safety around the pool. If anyone is ever in doubt you should contact a local electrician who specializes in pools and pool construction. It is unfortunate that pool bonding is a foreign concept to most electricians.
Now, if the pool was built in the 60's none of this would be in place. Bonding was not required at that time.
All electrical devices must be installed according to the manufacturers instructions in order to meet code. Just because an installation method "will work" doesn't count according to the code. An electrician may do something knowing it will work, but that may not meet code because it won't be inspected. TFP can't endorse methods we may feel will work, but are technically wrong if we know they are wrong.
We could chase little details like this all day, but what we really need to do is make folks aware of bonding and the importance it plays in the electrical safety around the pool. If anyone is ever in doubt you should contact a local electrician who specializes in pools and pool construction. It is unfortunate that pool bonding is a foreign concept to most electricians.
Thank you for the response. OK. Well I guess I'm going to have to call a pro in on this then. There are holes in the cement deck around our pool for ladders, however over the years they have gotten so crooked and outa whack, that we can't even put the ladders in because they won't sit properly. These are all things I plan on getting fixed, it's just.. new house (first house for me) and other purchases for other fixes have taken presedence. All in due time...
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I don't agree. Electrical loss in a conductor is inversely proportional to voltage, and increases proportionally with length (which is often a factor in exterior applications). I would not run NEW wire, but by using the existing wire at 220V you reduce line losses, and the motor runs at a lower amperage, for the just cost of a new breaker. Or if the OP wants to keep her plug, an new breaker and plug set.
220 also opens the possibility of other devices, such as a SWG or polaris, on the same line.
To sum it up. Since the pool was built in the 60's there's no bonding grid so there's nothing to connect to the bonding lug on the new pump.
While I would strongly suggest having a bond grid installed, there are thousands of pools without them. Your tolerance of the risk is yours.
Since you already have the new pump and it's basically the same rating as the existing one, I'd just change the cord from the old pump to the new one and utilize the existing plug a receptacle. That will allow you to easily move the pump indoors during the winter and to perform maintenance when and if needed.
While I would strongly suggest having a bond grid installed, there are thousands of pools without them. Your tolerance of the risk is yours.
Since you already have the new pump and it's basically the same rating as the existing one, I'd just change the cord from the old pump to the new one and utilize the existing plug a receptacle. That will allow you to easily move the pump indoors during the winter and to perform maintenance when and if needed.
The other end would run through the soil and attach to the structural steal of any concrete work that gets with in a few feet of the pool and then attach to the pool structural shell at 4 equal points around the pool. If there is a bonding wire ran 99.9% of the time it's in the same trench as the plumbing so do a little digging around where the suction and return plumbing emerges from the ground.
Edit... it's still early for me, I was responding to a question on page 1 of the thread not realizing there was a page 2 and everyone is way past the question I answered I will show my self out now :gone:
OK. thank you. Kinda what I wanted to hear, but at the same time, kinda not what I wanted to hear. I am assuming installing a bonding grid would take a lot of digging? What parts of the pool would you have to access?
Moderator Note: Side discussion regarding using a ground rod in bonding is moved here: Bonding with a ground rod
Roger that. well thank you so much for the detailed information, and advice. Everyone. It is greatly appreciated!
Bonding is about electrical safety and preventing electrocution if a series of unplanned events were to occur. Say, the pump developed a short to the water and electrified the water. If you have one foot in the water and touch an unbonded ladder or concrete deck with your other foot you will become the path ground and be electrocuted. If the water is bonded to the deck, the pump and the ladder then there will not be a voltage difference between the water and the ladder or deck and you will not be the path to ground. Ground rods do not help with bonding.
More here, Pool School - Bonding vs Grounding
More here, Pool School - Bonding vs Grounding
Good post. However, it's also important to note that grounding (in addition to bonding) does play an important role in pools. If a body of water is contained in an insulated vessel (vinyl/fiberglass pool, or 6 gallon plastic bucket), and a TWO wire (ungrounded) cord is dropped in the water, a GFCI may not trip even though a shock hazard exists. This occurs because the current flowing between out the hot and in the neutral are balanced. Bonding the water and grounding the bond loop (which the buried bare bond wire accomplishes) ensures that current can leak to ground. The difference in neutral current "out" and hot current "in" is what a GFCI will detect and react to.