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Thread: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

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    Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    So with the water level where it ought to be if I turn on the blower I get such violent agitation in the spa that it throws water out of the spa.

    As the spa is in a built-in room, this is not ideal.

    Should the openings in the spa have some kind of nozzle? Right now ours are just PVC pipe.

    Our pool vendor abandoned us, so I am trying to determine if this is something he left un-finished.

    So how do I go about increasing nozzle pressure (it doesn't seem like what I get out of the nozzles would be therapeutic at all) and how do I calm down the bubbles?

    I was thinking of adding some kind of reducers/jets at the nozzles and drilling some holes in the blower supply line at the blower to reduce the amount of air I am getting.
    2015 7x12 exercise pool. 54" deep. Pebble coated. Adjacent spa is 8ft x 8ft triangle.
    Here's a pic...
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jw9weq80r..._2016.jpg?dl=1

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    It doesn't sound like the pool/spa valves are set properly. You need to put the pump into spa mode so it sends water to the spa jets. Water should be coming out of the jets as well as air. Combined they make the jets therapeutic.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    there are nozzles that screw into the openings, your pb should have installed them.

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    It doesn't sound like the pool/spa valves are set properly. You need to put the pump into spa mode so it sends water to the spa jets. Water should be coming out of the jets as well as air. Combined they make the jets therapeutic.
    Yep, I understand the concept. It just seems like there is 1) not a lot of flow out of the jets and 2) waaaay to much bubbling when the blower is on.

    Quote Originally Posted by river rat View Post
    there are nozzles that screw into the openings, your pb should have installed them.
    I was afraid of this, there are no threads in the jet holes, they are just PVC pipe as near as I can tell. Are there fittings I can add to this? IIf nothing else I guess I could drain the spa enough to get them dry and install PVC reducers, what orifice size are the jets supposed to be?

    Many thanks guys!
    2015 7x12 exercise pool. 54" deep. Pebble coated. Adjacent spa is 8ft x 8ft triangle.
    Here's a pic...
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jw9weq80r..._2016.jpg?dl=1

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    The nozzles are deep within the spa wall. The only way to "see" them is to drain the spa. Normally they come with the venturi tees so should still be there unless removed.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    The nozzles are deep within the spa wall. The only way to "see" them is to drain the spa. Normally they come with the venturi tees so should still be there unless removed.
    Do you have a link to an example of the device you are describing?

    I am pretty sure I have nothing but PVC pipe between the blower/pump and the spa.

    I found this, but it seems to be only for pool returns?

    Insider Hydrostream 1


    ETA, OK, so you mean this...
    https://www.mypoolyard.com/images_pd...e_210_3330.jpg

    I am pretty sure no such device exists in my jet lines, but I have no photos of that plumbing I can find.
    2015 7x12 exercise pool. 54" deep. Pebble coated. Adjacent spa is 8ft x 8ft triangle.
    Here's a pic...
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jw9weq80r..._2016.jpg?dl=1

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    I'm not into the technical side of this pool business, so I can't help with your question for mas985. I found this photo in my pool build - maybe it will help.

    Spa jets/returns after plaster and acid wash BEFORE the PB added the nozzles. I zoomed in really close and could see no threads. I'll see if I have any other pictures just after nozzles added.

    Suz~Cypress area~ 2015 pool build. 23K gallons. IG swcg system. 35'x18'; 573sf; 104' perim; depth 4'-7'. Bubblers, sheer descents, 7' spa. Jandy: color LEDs; 2HP 2sp pump; 1HP 2sp pump; spa pump; 580 cartridge; 400K BTU; Dolphin M500; PS8; Inline chlorinator not used; Aqua Pure 1400. Blue Granite Sheen. Travertine deck. Lightstreams Peacock Blue TF-100, K-1766, SpeedStir

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    Here's a picture after gunite:

    Suz~Cypress area~ 2015 pool build. 23K gallons. IG swcg system. 35'x18'; 573sf; 104' perim; depth 4'-7'. Bubblers, sheer descents, 7' spa. Jandy: color LEDs; 2HP 2sp pump; 1HP 2sp pump; spa pump; 580 cartridge; 400K BTU; Dolphin M500; PS8; Inline chlorinator not used; Aqua Pure 1400. Blue Granite Sheen. Travertine deck. Lightstreams Peacock Blue TF-100, K-1766, SpeedStir

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    A spa jet almost ALWAYS has a venturi tee. You won't get a jet with bubbles without one. The venturi TEE is within the spa wall and you can't see it from any of the pictures. You can only see the nozzle if you look straight into the spa jet pipe. It is recessed fairly far in. The picture below shows how they work. The air feed can be either a pipe straight up to the deck or they are usually combined into a single pipe that goes back close to the equipment pad.


    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    Stimsonjcat: Sadly I have no pictures of venturi tees (great diagram, btw) and don't recall or have written documentation about getting them.

    I have two blowers for my spa. I don't know how your setup is rigged for turning on and off, but I use a remote for the pool features. We have a medium speed for the spa which we discovered accidentally. Maybe you have the same thing. I'm not changing any pump speeds to get this - don't know if I even could with the pumps I have.

    First, 2e have to turn on Spa Mode. I agree, it's a little bland.

    Second, we turn on the blowers. Yep, they are way too bubbly for us unless I had a sore back. And they're too loud to carry on a conversation while sitting in the spa.

    Last, we turn off the blowers BUT keep the spa mode on. That gives us a nice in between. I have no idea how or why that works, and our PB (or pool school guy) didn't tell us about it.

    For quite a long time, after we used the blowers, we just went to Spa Mode off, so we never saw the medium bubbles. I'm hoping that's your case so you can enjoy pleasant water action.

    You can see in the diagram the fitting or outer nozzle where water and air exit into the spa. My PB called those the 'eyeballs', and I believe you can get different types. Maybe someone will be able to help with that.
    Suz~Cypress area~ 2015 pool build. 23K gallons. IG swcg system. 35'x18'; 573sf; 104' perim; depth 4'-7'. Bubblers, sheer descents, 7' spa. Jandy: color LEDs; 2HP 2sp pump; 1HP 2sp pump; spa pump; 580 cartridge; 400K BTU; Dolphin M500; PS8; Inline chlorinator not used; Aqua Pure 1400. Blue Granite Sheen. Travertine deck. Lightstreams Peacock Blue TF-100, K-1766, SpeedStir

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    I appreciate everyone''s research.

    I will get my goggles on next chance I get and hop in the spa to take a look what is in there.

    jetdiag.jpg

    As I have noted before, the PB abandoned us and for controls we have an electrical panel with two manual switches, one runs the pump, the other allegedly turns on the blower and the heater...but since the heater has no propane connected I am not turning this switch on yet.

    Here in GA I am having a difficult time finding a plumber or HVAC guy who wants to run the iron pipe for the heater...so I am probably going to do it myself. If I can rebuild jet-ski engines I think I can handle getting some pipe to not leak. Oddly the propane vendor who is going to do the hookup to tank and heater (he is doing a double regulator setup, so the pipe is only 1/2") was totally cool with this idea as long as it passes a leak down test.

    I think I will go to the local pool supply places and see if they have any nozzles I can look at. If I can find one small enough I may just buy some delrin or PVC and turn adapters for them on the lathe. But maybe there is a type that will fit the existing PVC properly.

    I work at a company that sells automation equipment in Technical Support, so I have been acquiring equipment to automate the system. I have 2 intermatic valves, a PLC, an HMI, and some relays to interface between PLC and pump/valve/heater. I already wrote all the code. I was planning to do this anyway as I want to add an aftermarket solar heating rig for both the pool and the spa. Sucks a bit though as any work I do is not admissible in small claims court as an expense I should be reimbursed for.

    I'll check the blower for any speed controls, that would be easier than some hokey adjustable hole.
    2015 7x12 exercise pool. 54" deep. Pebble coated. Adjacent spa is 8ft x 8ft triangle.
    Here's a pic...
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jw9weq80r..._2016.jpg?dl=1

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    if you had venturi valves you'd also have little white caps above each jet on the surface of your spa deck, and I can see from the photo that you don't. I'd say your PB didn't know what a venturi valve was, or decided they didn't need to be used when a blower motor was attached, and didn't install them.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
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    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    Quote Originally Posted by camueller View Post
    if you had venturi valves you'd also have little white caps above each jet on the surface of your spa deck, and I can see from the photo that you don't. I'd say your PB didn't know what a venturi valve was, or decided they didn't need to be used when a blower motor was attached, and didn't install them.
    Suz's pics above have no white caps and she has venturis, right suz?
    2015 7x12 exercise pool. 54" deep. Pebble coated. Adjacent spa is 8ft x 8ft triangle.
    Here's a pic...
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jw9weq80r..._2016.jpg?dl=1

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    My PB never mentioned venturis, and none of my contract paperwork states venturis. I don't know anything about venturis.

    Mas said spa jets almost always have them. Maybe having the blower is the difference. Still, in the builds I've seen, I don't remember seeing white caps with spas. Now I'm curious!

    I do not have any white caps like camueller described. (no white caps anywhere)
    Suz~Cypress area~ 2015 pool build. 23K gallons. IG swcg system. 35'x18'; 573sf; 104' perim; depth 4'-7'. Bubblers, sheer descents, 7' spa. Jandy: color LEDs; 2HP 2sp pump; 1HP 2sp pump; spa pump; 580 cartridge; 400K BTU; Dolphin M500; PS8; Inline chlorinator not used; Aqua Pure 1400. Blue Granite Sheen. Travertine deck. Lightstreams Peacock Blue TF-100, K-1766, SpeedStir

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    Quote Originally Posted by SuzfromTexas View Post
    My PB never mentioned venturis, and none of my contract paperwork states venturis. I don't know anything about venturis.

    Mas said spa jets almost always have them. Maybe having the blower is the difference. Still, in the builds I've seen, I don't remember seeing white caps with spas. Now I'm curious!

    I do not have any white caps like camueller described. (no white caps anywhere)
    Hydro Air | VENTURI AIR CONTROL PART | 1" STEM ASSEMBLY, WHITE | 50-2108WHT

    Something like that is what I was referring to. Most every spa I've ever been in has had those. But maybe they aren't necessary, as long as the venturi tee has a place to breathe. These caps allow you to adjust the air intake, limiting the bubbles or increasing them as desired.

    17,500 gallon IG Vinyl
    Pentair Tagelus TA60D Sand filter
    Pentair Challenger 1.5HP pump CFII N1 1.5A
    Taylor K-2006-A, Stenner 45MPHP10 auto chlorine feed

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    Gunite Venturis DO NOT always have white caps on the deck. In fact most don't. As I mentioned before, sometimes the air lines run back to the pad and they put a blower on it. I have an air pipe that runs to the venturis but I do not need a blower so don't use it.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    My built-in spa doesn't have any caps. There is a pipe at the equipment pad that has a cut taken out of the side of it. When I engage the spa jets with the valve, air gets sucked in through that vented pipe and presto, I get bubbles.
    8,500gal plaster in-ground with attached spa, two floor drains, one skimmer. Chlorine, City Water.
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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    Gunite Venturis DO NOT always have white caps on the deck. In fact most don't. As I mentioned before, sometimes the air lines run back to the pad and they put a blower on it. I have an air pipe that runs to the venturis but I do not need a blower so don't use it.
    Ah, so with enough flow there is enough suction from the venturi to pull air in and the valve just limits that. Like a paint-sprayer and needle-valve. There was at least one big vertical U in the spa piping because I thought it was going to be exposed and asked about it, PB said it was to make sure the water wouldn't go back to the blower, but then the blower ended up installed above the spa waterline anyway.

    I still think there is not enough flow out of the jets to be fun/effective, but then there is no restriction right now so they are effectively pool returns.
    2015 7x12 exercise pool. 54" deep. Pebble coated. Adjacent spa is 8ft x 8ft triangle.
    Here's a pic...
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jw9weq80r..._2016.jpg?dl=1

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    The vertical U is called a Hartford loop and a good choice. You may not even need the blower at all. If you remove the blower from the air pipe, do you still see bubbles out of the jets?

    but then there is no restriction right now so they are effectively pool returns.
    So did you confirm the jet nozzles were not installed? The exterior fitting is not that important and only directs the spa jet flow.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Spa jet holes and blower questions (waaaay too bubbly)

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    The vertical U is called a Hartford loop and a good choice. You may not even need the blower at all. If you remove the blower from the air pipe, do you still see bubbles out of the jets?
    Good, so they did something right.

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    So did you confirm the jet nozzles were not installed? The exterior fitting is not that important and only directs the spa jet flow.
    Not yet, I just remembered I bought a cheap endoscope for my android off ebay and will take a look when I get home.
    2015 7x12 exercise pool. 54" deep. Pebble coated. Adjacent spa is 8ft x 8ft triangle.
    Here's a pic...
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/5jw9weq80r..._2016.jpg?dl=1

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