Annoyed at pool store

[luckyman_apd]

Somebody explain this to me because I can't understand the reasoning behind this ladies argument.

I went into the pool store tonight to buy some things for the pool and after asking which chlorine to use yesterday (thanks to all the replies) I figured I would just go with Calcium Hypo-chlorite. I was going to buy a 50 lb bucket ($80) and the lady who runs the place asked me why I was buying that. She knows me by name as she sold me the liner, and she says she has 30 years of experience. I informed her that after all my research, and reading this site, that I don't want to build up CYA in the pool with tablets, and that my uncle recommended Cal Hypo every other day, that he has been doing it for 20 years without a single problem on his vinyl pool. She told me that I shouldn't ever really have a problem with CYA with winter drains and back-flushing, and that I was throwing money away by using a product with only 70% chlorine as to over 90%. She also said that it's unstabalized so it will just burn right off. I said I know that, which is the reason for every other day, (as well as keeping me testing and on top of the pool so I don't wait for a problem to occur).
I also told her I'm considering using liquid chorine and she almost seemed to take it as a personal insult. She said why would I want to only put 15% chlorine product in instead of 90%. She didn't seem to understand the argument that by using the tabs or the cal hypo I was putting extra products in the pool.

My question is what is her motivation for trying to convince me to use tabs? As far as my calculations, it didn't really seem like I'd spend more money in her store buying tabs over calcium chloride. I was beginning to think she didn't really know everything she should or that she was just trying to convince me her way was best. I know she owns her own pool, so she must be familiar with pool chemistry. I'm racking my brain, but can't figure out why she was so irritated by this. Almost to the point where I want to take my business elsewhere.

Matt

 

[heikejohn]

Sounds like she wants you to stay ignorant, and rely on her telling you to spend your money on products she wants to sell. If you need them or not.
She might have felt that you were not needing her "knowledge" any more!!

 

[duraleigh]

I was beginning to think she didn't really know everything she should or that she was just trying to convince me her way was best.

Bingo, Matt. Hard to teach some old dogs new tricks.

The affect of high CYA accumulation in a pool is not well known or even understood among many pool store folks. Truthfully, many people get away with using pucks for years and years. Rainfall, splashout, etc are often of such a volume that many folks end up replacing their pool water every year.....whether they mean to or not. In that scenario, pucks can work for years.

She is smokin left-handed cigarettes if she thinks pucks are such a great bargain, however.

Many folks have done the math on the forum and, generally, Clorox is about as cheap as it gets. Probably not enough cheaper to make the switch to bleach for cost alone, but it seems to usually come out cheaper.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Many times they are just misinformed, and repeat bad information that's been told to them by people who were misinformed.

Here's something of interest...

bottom line is this, except for the calcium added to the pool, bleach and cal-hypo are pretty much interchangeable (as is lithium hypo). Once they are in your water they are all in the form of hypochlroous acid and hyopochlorite ions and chlorinated isocyanurates (if you have CYA in your pool).

1 gal of 10% liquid or 1 lb 73% cal hypo (hard to get these days), 1.75 lbs of 48% cal hypo (what is commonly available) or 2 lbs of 35% lithium hypo will all raise 10 k gallons approx 10 ppm FC.

So I believe she's not really understanding percentages vs. strength/available chlorine in the various products.

There is a cost analysis comparing chlorine sources in Pool School, if your interested.

When you say "every other day" ... remember you still want a minimum of 30 CYA in your pool, to prevent your FC (from any source) from being destroyed by UV rays.

 

[JasonLion]

Cal-hypo is usually more expensive than trichlor, so the pool store should make more money off of it, so she should have been happy. She wouldn't expect someone to be aware of what their CYA level was, let alone know how to maintain it, so the chlorine will just burn off argument has some weight in her world.

There is a good comparison of the prices of different chlorine sources. The prices are a little out of date, but I believe that they have all gone up by about the same percentage, so the comparisons should be valid.

 

[luckyman_apd]

Yes, I do understand that I need the CYA to prevent the sun from burning everything. I added 6lbs last week as the was first filled 2 weeks ago. She, however, told me that unstabilized chlorine like Cal Hypo and liquid chlorine wouldn't mix with the CYA in the pool and burn off. That's when I think I stopped talking to her and just bought the tubes that I came in to buy. After your posts, I feel better and more sure of myself. I teach math for a living, and I go through life watching morons unable to understand elementary calculations, and clearly, she didn't understand percentages vs. total amounts. Your exactly right. A gallon of bleach at low percentage, vs a small tablet with a high percentage will probably be almost an equal amount in volume. It's like trying to tell me to take a hundred pennies and stick them in my pocket instead of a dollar bill, because there are a lot more of them, and that makes them worth more!

She probably doesn't work the register because if I bought an item for $3.72 and gave her a five, she would try to give me $2.28 change or wouldn't be able to calculate it without the computer.

Thanks again for your feedback. I am SOOO glad I found this site. For now, I'll probably just use the tablets I have until I price out bleach from a few stores to figure out the best price.

Just an additional question......You still have to shock occasionally when using bleach too right? I have 22 packets of 1lb cal Hypo shock bags I bought my first trip in the store. Maybe I haven't gotten that degree from Pool School yet!

 

[JasonLion]

You don't need to shock regularly, and some people can go a couple of years before they need to shock, but most of us end up shocking once or twice a season for one reason or another.

 

[Guest]

She probably doesn't work the register because if I bought an item for $3.72 and gave her a five, she would try to give me $2.28 change

and this is a problem because...?
I say take the dollar and run!

 

[chem geek]

She, however, told me that unstabilized chlorine like Cal Hypo and liquid chlorine wouldn't mix with the CYA in the pool and burn off.

I know that you realize that she's completely wrong, but for the record, the reaction of Cyanuric Acid (CYA), technically cyanurate ion since that's mostly what is in the water, and chlorine, technically hypochlorous acid, is mostly complete in less than 1 second -- far faster than it takes to "burn off" or get broken down by sunlight (which takes 35 minutes for half of the hypochlorous acid to break down).

 

[PaulR]

Just an additional question......You still have to shock occasionally when using bleach too right? I have 22 packets of 1lb cal Hypo shock bags I bought my first trip in the store. Maybe I haven't gotten that degree from Pool School yet!

Depends on where your CH is, they might not be useless. I needed to nudge up my CH a while ago and I just used cal-hypo for a couple months.
--paulr

 

[luckyman_apd]

You guys rock!

I NEVER wanted a pool because I never wanted to have to take care of it. Then I found a forclosure property at a steal that happened to have a neglected pool. I have since changed my mind. I have no trees and full sun in the yard all day, and it has been a pleasure so far. We have only been in it twice, but it was priceless to see my daughter, niece, and nephew enjoy it. I have not switched from using the tabs yet, since it is a brand new liner, and my CYA levels are in the 30-40 range. I think I have been convinced to use clorox (I can get 2.84 gallons for $5.79 at BJ's, haven't checked Walmart, but I'm fundamentally against Walmart anyway) but I just need to figure out how much and how often. When the tablets in my Chlorinator are all gone, I will start the switch over.