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Thread: Adding Acid Daily... Is this normal?

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    Adding Acid Daily... Is this normal?

    I've read plenty of threads saying new plaster will cause PH to rise and stay high for as much as a year. And if the filter is on water is dropping 12 inches out of my SPA via 3 12" wide spill overs which it's doing 10-12 hours a day every day... So I am sure the aeration doesn't help either...

    But should I have to add a pint of acid every.single.day?? I am seeing a pretty consistent .2 rise daily.

    Everything else seems pretty happy...

    FC 3.5 (still trichloring as CYA is low and I am playing with the inline chlorinator to learn how to use it for vacations, etc.)
    PH 8.0 (didn't add acid yesterday, so double whammy today. )
    TA 90
    CH 220
    CYA 40

    Our pool builder recommended borates as part of the start-up but we opted not to do it. Any chance that might help with the PH? From what I've read sounds like probably not, and worse yet, would just require more acid to drop the PH?

    Playing with the PoolMath calculator I see without Borates I get a recommended 12oz to drop PH .2, with 30ppm borates it jumps to 25oz. (doubling acid required). And if I went all the way up to 50ppm it would take 34oz to achieve a .2 drop. So unless this solves or at least significantly slows down the rise, adding Borates seems like it would just make me add MORE acid which is definitely not the direction I'd like to go!

    Thoughts? Suggestions?
    21000 gal IG Pebble Sheen (Blue Surf), Pentair quad DE filter, Sta Rite Intellipro VS pump; Paramount PCC-2000 inground cleaner; Installed May 2016.

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: Adding Acid Daily... Is this normal?

    I went through this question and the frequent acid additions when the plaster was new. I decided to leave borates until next season. Sounds like you've read everything so I won't link anything (it's much appreciated around here that you've done the research).

    For the sake of your plaster curing, I'd wait before aggressively lowering your TA, but later on you'll probably decide to lower your TA to 60ish, at which point the acid additions will become less frequent. As the plaster slows it's contribution to pH, the amount of acid will reduce as well.

    The contribution of TA from fill water can be reduced by reducing evaporation with a cover, which also reduces the amount of acid required. Covers are considered ugly at my house, so we don't have one yet
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: Adding Acid Daily... Is this normal?

    As it rises to he higher end of the scale, knock it down to 7.2
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    Re: Adding Acid Daily... Is this normal?

    Quote Originally Posted by needsajet View Post
    For the sake of your plaster curing, I'd wait before aggressively lowering your TA, but later on you'll probably decide to lower your TA to 60ish, at which point the acid additions will become less frequent. As the plaster slows it's contribution to pH, the amount of acid will reduce as well.
    At the rate I am adding acid I'll be back to 60 in two weeks. And I so wish I was kidding... I raised the TA after reading recommended levels (for tricolor), and wondering if low(er) TA was contributing to the PH rise (bounce/instability) so I bumped the TA level up to 110 (slight overshoot trying to figure out if measuring baking soda in a measuring cup was by weight or volume one night on far too little sleep ). Basically what I found was TA at 60 PH rises .2 every day. TA at 110 PH rises .2 every day. TA at 90 PH rises .2 every day... I am still not clear on what TA I should shoot for in general? Pool Math using TFP, Tri-chlor, plaster comes up with 100-120+ for a recommendation. Where can I read more on TA and pros/cons of low vs. high TA? Or at least what to look out for to know I've gone too low or too high?
    21000 gal IG Pebble Sheen (Blue Surf), Pentair quad DE filter, Sta Rite Intellipro VS pump; Paramount PCC-2000 inground cleaner; Installed May 2016.

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    Re: Adding Acid Daily... Is this normal?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyp View Post
    As it rises to he higher end of the scale, knock it down to 7.2
    Is this just a add 2 quarts twice a week, vs. a pint a day (e.g. I am still adding the same amount of acid, just spreading it out more?) Or is there some benefit to taking bigger swings?
    21000 gal IG Pebble Sheen (Blue Surf), Pentair quad DE filter, Sta Rite Intellipro VS pump; Paramount PCC-2000 inground cleaner; Installed May 2016.

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    Re: Adding Acid Daily... Is this normal?

    The lower the TA, the slower the pH rise will be. The reason for the higher recommended TA level when using trichlor is due to the pucks are net acidic and tend to cause the pH to crash over time. Keeping the TA hire prevent this from occurring.

    It would be in your best interest to maintain a lower TA and a higher pH level so that you are closer to stability between the two. Just be cautious if you continue to use trichlor that you may end up with the TA dropping too low and causing the pH to crash.
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    Re: Adding Acid Daily... Is this normal?

    Quote Originally Posted by bdavis466 View Post
    The lower the TA, the slower the pH rise will be. The reason for the higher recommended TA level when using trichlor is due to the pucks are net acidic and tend to cause the pH to crash over time. Keeping the TA hire prevent this from occurring.

    It would be in your best interest to maintain a lower TA and a higher pH level so that you are closer to stability between the two. Just be cautious if you continue to use trichlor that you may end up with the TA dropping too low and causing the pH to crash.
    How low on the TA and how high on the PH? From the threads I've perused I see TA all over the map, but median seems to be around 70. And PH at 7.8ish? Sounds like PH over 8 is bad? Is it dangerous to stay that close to the line? I've generally been shooting for 7.6.
    21000 gal IG Pebble Sheen (Blue Surf), Pentair quad DE filter, Sta Rite Intellipro VS pump; Paramount PCC-2000 inground cleaner; Installed May 2016.

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    Re: Adding Acid Daily... Is this normal?

    Try 7.8 pH and a TA at 60-70.

    For what it's worth, I add a gallon of acid per week and that's in spite of being very mindful of the pH, TA and minimal aeration. I have borates as well.

    A pH above 8 is not a good thing as it greatly increases the chances of scale developing and metal stains (if you have metals in the water).
    -Brian-
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