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Thread: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

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    New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    Hi all,

    I have been reading this forum for a couple months ever since I put an offer on a house with a pool. Well, it is finally a week away and I went over there and stole some water to test. First off, it is a 13-15k Salt pool. I just checked out the Equipment and I will post pics soon so you guys can tell me what I have but, it looks like a Hayward DE filter 6020 i think. T-CELL-15 Chlorinator, Aqua Logic system, looks like an extra pump for the polaris. Water looks pretty good. I did notice that the cell is running at 100% so that has me a bit concerned. I hope a cleaning and adding a bit more salt will help.

    Here are my test results with TF-100 Kit, I tested at the hottest part of the day it was 102 outside:

    FC - 3
    CC - Maybe .5 (turned very slightly pink)
    CYA - 60
    CH - 175-200
    TA - 160
    PH - 8.2
    Salt - 3200

    So My thoughts are to completely clean the filter and take out the SWG and clean it as well. Then slightly raise the CYA to 70 or 80. Throw a ton (using pool math of course) MA in to lower the PH to about 7.2, run the water features like crazy to get TA down and repeat. Does that sound right?

    The Aqua Logic said salt was 2700, should I add any?

    Also, CH seems low, but it does have a spa so should I raise it any?

    I had a pool inspector out and he said there is one valve actuator that is bad. That should be easy to replace an the spa blower is bad, which should be easy as well. However, the spa side control is bad too. Can I use the existing wiring on that if I get a replacement unit?

    Thank you all for this amazing forum!

    -Russell
    13k Gallon IG Pebble w/ attached Spa, AquaRite T-Cell-15 SWG, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 2 HP Pump, Hayward 400k Heater, TF-100 Kit, Pool Logger

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    Welcome to TFP! Good to have you here

    I can't answer all the questions, but I'll answer a few and that will give the thread a bump as well.

    The first things I would do is correct the pH and raise the FC a little.

    Yep, your plan for TA is a good idea. Lowering TA will reduce the frequency of acid additions.

    100% on the SWG may be fine - it depends how long the pump is running per day, and how the controller is set. The T-15 would need about 5.5 hours at 100% to deliver 2.5 ppm FC per day which is a very rough average FC daily demand. It varies a lot depending on sunshine, bather load and incoming contaminants like dust and leaves.

    The current FC level is at the minimum and I would keep it higher if it was my pool.

    I would do an OCLT before raising CYA, just to be sure it's clean, but yep, your CYA plan is correct. Pool School - Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT)

    If the pool is plaster, add that to your signature when you get a minute.

    I'll leave the filter, spa and CH to others, and anything else I missed.

    Congrats on the new digs, and thanks for doing the research. That's really helpful!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh yeh, salt looks fine. The SWG will tell you if it's low.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    Thank you for the help! I am not sure how the timer is set so I will figure all of that out. I assume once I raise the CYA a bit I will have to find a way to get the FC up to 6 or so.

    Anyways, here is a picture of the pool, the yellow at the bottom is some leaves, they didn't have the Polaris in the pool. It is plaster with some sort of PebbleTech finish:



    Here is the broken spa side control, can I just replace that and use the same wires?



    Here is the control board:



    Suction Side (what is the spigot coming from the filter backwash valve there for?):



    There is also this coming from the other side of the same valve from the filter, which one is for backwashing?:



    Return Side (what is that circled in red? temperature sensor of some kind?):




    What are all of the blue valves for? I know when I change the controls from Pool to Spa it will turn the two main valves to isolate the spa, but How to I control spillover and water features? By the looks of it the spa return will always be on when the pool return is on so the spillover will always spill over unless i isolate the spa, is that right?

    Thanks!
    13k Gallon IG Pebble w/ attached Spa, AquaRite T-Cell-15 SWG, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 2 HP Pump, Hayward 400k Heater, TF-100 Kit, Pool Logger

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    Too many questions at once? Trust me, I have more!
    13k Gallon IG Pebble w/ attached Spa, AquaRite T-Cell-15 SWG, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 2 HP Pump, Hayward 400k Heater, TF-100 Kit, Pool Logger

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    I'll try a couple. The blue valves are to turn water from either coming from (suction) the spa, main drain and skimmer. Same with the returns. So if you just want to run the pool independent of the spa you close the suction and return valves for all those. If you were to drain the whole pool, you'd turn the skimmer suction off and just drain from the bottom drain.

    The best way to tell where the backwash comes out is to ... backwash. Pump off, turn the handle clockwise (always turn clockwise) to back wash, pump on and see what happens.

    I'm not sure what the circled red thing is.

    Edit
    ---------------|----------------- is off for the blue valves
    ----------------------------------is on .
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    The hose spigot is to drain water if it gets a bit high from rain, the one with the hose clamp and a remnant of blue hose is for backwash the hose was to divert the waste away from the pad it probably got brittle broke and was never replaced. The red circle could be a temp sensor but I think it is more likely a flow sensor for the SWG.

    I think the blue valves are to turn off the water feature, and/or pool return. I suspect they have a valve on both so you can turn the returns off while the water feature is on and send all the flow to the water feature and really get it flowing. If there are still relays open on the aqua logic you could replace those with actuated Jandys to automate at some point.

    Yes CH is a little on the low side I would bump it up 100 ppm give or take 25ppm.

    For what it is worth I have had good luck with Intermatic actuators they are bit cheaper than Jandy, the connectors are the same plug and play for the most part.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    Cool thanks for the help! Starting to get an idea on what I have here.

    I think I have a plan for the most part. Primary goal is to decrease PH right away, and slowly bring down the TA. Add some CYA and work on getting FC up a bit. I have no idea on what the pump run time is set right now, but like I said the SWG is at 100%. I bet it hasn't been cleaned for a long time either, so I will get on that. If I add some bleach or liquid chlorine to get the FC up a point or 2 will the SWG then keep the levels up? or will it likely fall back down to where it is now?

    One more question. How does the Polaris booster pump work? Is that on a separate timer in the system? No idea how that works yet.

    So much to learn...
    13k Gallon IG Pebble w/ attached Spa, AquaRite T-Cell-15 SWG, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 2 HP Pump, Hayward 400k Heater, TF-100 Kit, Pool Logger

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    You will have to experiment with your SWG to see how long it needs to run at what % to maintain. This is not going to be hands free at first, you'll need to adjust FC every 1-2 days until you get a good handle on things.

    Print this out (the bottom half anyway) and tape it to the inside lid of your kit, or where you test. Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart
    32K gallon Plaster - 1hp Hayward 2 speed Super Pump - Hayward S200 Sand Filter - TF100XL
    Test Kits - Pool Math - Chlorine/CYA/Target/Slam Chart

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    Yes the Polaris booster is on a separate program / timer defined in the aqua logic. The pool pump has to be on when the Polaris booster comes on that too is defined in the aqua logic programing.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    Perfect, thanks y'all.
    13k Gallon IG Pebble w/ attached Spa, AquaRite T-Cell-15 SWG, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 2 HP Pump, Hayward 400k Heater, TF-100 Kit, Pool Logger

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    Very nice pool / setup.

    Jealous!
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
    Dolphin E10 Cleaning Robot.

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    Thanks! I hope I can eventually make sense of it all and just enjoy it!
    13k Gallon IG Pebble w/ attached Spa, AquaRite T-Cell-15 SWG, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 2 HP Pump, Hayward 400k Heater, TF-100 Kit, Pool Logger

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    OK, I am finally in the new house. I started on the pool. I added a pound of CYA in a sock yesterday to get that to start rising. I am not 100% sure on the volume of the pool so I am approaching additions cautiously. I also worked on the Ph. it was off the scale (or 8.2) when I got there. I added about 40oz of MA. That got it down to 7.5, so I added a bit more to get it to 7.2 because the TA is so high. When I came back to test later in the afternoon it was already back up to 8, so I lowered it again. I guess I will keep doing this till I can get the TA down enough to prevent so much creep.

    In my first post I mentioned that the SWG was running at 100%, I am starting to think this is unnecessary. The pump is running from 9 am to 6 pm. So 11 hours at 100%. I checked the FC at 6 last night and it was 9, checked again this morning and it was 8.5. I am surprised it is so high, could my CYA addition already be helping that much?

    Numbers last night:

    FC - 9
    CC - 0
    Ph - 7.4
    CYA - 50/60
    TA - 140
    CH - 175
    Salt - 3000

    I'm going to leave this as is for the SWG for another day to see what happens. and then should I just start to try and lower it 10% a day until I am at my target FC by the evening?

    Now for some structural questions. I notices that the returns were not super strong. They have them closed slightly. SO when I turn the blue valve pictured below, i can hear a little air noise and i get some bubbling out of some of the returns. I also noticed a couple returns don't do anything. Can I fix this?

    One more, when the pumps turn off the Spa will lose about 6 inches of water overnight. It goes down to right above the returns. What is the problem there?

    Thanks! Sorry for so many questions.
    13k Gallon IG Pebble w/ attached Spa, AquaRite T-Cell-15 SWG, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 2 HP Pump, Hayward 400k Heater, TF-100 Kit, Pool Logger

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    After you run for a couple more days if the FC stays high you can reduce the cell % or what I would do is reduce the pump run time. My guess is you could shave as much as 4 hours without noticing a water clarity change, so try reducing the pump/SWG time by an hour or two at a time and see where the FC goes.

    You should consider bumping the CH up by 100 to 125 ppm so you don't start pulling calcium out of the plaster.

    When you turn things off the spa returns and suction valves should close, if they don't gravity is going to slowly push water into the pool. Also it looks like there is a back-flow between the spa return and pool returns if that is not working properly the spa level will go down slowly as well.

    Not sure about the returns if you are getting air when you put them full open it could be that that pump is not getting enough water from a skimmer and the result is it is pulling air in. Take a look in the skimmers if one of them is creating a vortex that occasionally pulls air in try opening the main drain or the other skimmer a bit to provide the pump more water more until it stops pulling air in. I think we would need pictures of the returns that don't do anything.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    Awesome. Thanks. Maybe that check valve on the spa return is leaking. How can I check?

    I will check the skimmers and drain.

    On the CH, yes that was my plan once I got everything else in order.
    13k Gallon IG Pebble w/ attached Spa, AquaRite T-Cell-15 SWG, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 2 HP Pump, Hayward 400k Heater, TF-100 Kit, Pool Logger

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    Not sure how you would check the check valve but it looks like a good one with serviceable parts you may just be able to take it apart and check that the spring still has tension and the seals look good. You may have to drain the spa into the pool before you take the check valve apart as it looks like the spa is above the check valve so when you open it if there is water in the spa it is going to be pushed out at the equipment pad. You could also just put plugs in the spa returns.

    If you rule out the check valve then the only thing left is one of the jandys probably the one on the return because if it were the one on the drain I would expect the water to go below the returns. Again those look like good ones with serviceable parts.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    Thanks, I will take a look at the check valves tomorrow morning to see what they look like when the pump is off. Fun stuff inheriting pool problems. It seems like if they would have mounted the check valve face up then you could just pop it off and the water would just stay in the pipes, but since it is vertical, water will just come pouring out. Doh!

    - - - Updated - - -

    I was just thinking... That suction side valve actuator is bad. I already have the new one. I wonder if installing that would fix the problem.
    13k Gallon IG Pebble w/ attached Spa, AquaRite T-Cell-15 SWG, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 2 HP Pump, Hayward 400k Heater, TF-100 Kit, Pool Logger

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    If that actuator is not able to close the spa off when the pump is off then yes I would fix that first, very well could be the problem. Even if it does not fix it better to eliminate variables you know you were going to have to deal with anyway.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    Checked everything this morning after adding some more MA last night.

    PH 7.5
    FC 10
    CYA - too hard to tell, it almost looks like it went down to 40-50 but i added 18oz on Monday it should be close to 70 at least now, i will test again tonight in the brighter sun.

    I made a mistake the pump run time was 9 hours. I lowered it to 8 hours last night, we will see what the FC is tonight. I guess I could decrease the SWG percentage as well.

    If i want to turn the pump on so the kids can play in the spillover but I dont want the SWG to generate chlorine, would I have to turn it on, adjust it to 0%, then when I turn it off readjust to the correct % again? Or is there some kind of manual mode where I can say, just turn the pumps on and set SWG to 0%?

    Thanks for the help so far.
    13k Gallon IG Pebble w/ attached Spa, AquaRite T-Cell-15 SWG, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 2 HP Pump, Hayward 400k Heater, TF-100 Kit, Pool Logger

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    Re: New Pool Owner - About to close on house

    End of day and the FC is 12.5. I'm gonna inch the percentage down now. It's crazy how much it's Increasing. Also on the CYA. I tested and its seems like it's 50-60. I guess I will add another pound of CYA and test again. TA down 120!
    13k Gallon IG Pebble w/ attached Spa, AquaRite T-Cell-15 SWG, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 2 HP Pump, Hayward 400k Heater, TF-100 Kit, Pool Logger

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