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Thread: Copper Sulfate usage???

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    bwesson's Avatar
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    Copper Sulfate usage???

    Hi Everyone! New to the FORUM and NEW to pools... Had my pool built 10 months ago.. 15,000 gallon pebble tech/River Sand surface, Cartridge filter, Jandy veritable speed pump, inline Chlorinator.. Before everyone yells at me.... I've ONLY found out that COPPER is BAD days ago after an incident..
    SO After the pool was completed I had a "FRIEND" tell me to use Copper Sulfate (1-tbs per 1000gal) once a month to keep the water crystal clear.. And I've been adding ROOT Killer from Home Depot every month for 10 months..
    Last week I noticed some BLACK stains.. A little googling and I learned about black algae, so ran to WALMART and grabbed a few bags of HTH 4-1 pool shock.. I'm sure YOU ALL know where this going... I poured and walked around the pool quickly and BAMMMMM instant BLACK spots EVERYWHERE the shock touched.., RAN into the house and googled SHOCK and Black stains when the infamous COPPER articles came to light... I then RAN to Leslie's pool supplies and grabbed a 2 lb bottle of Ascorbic acid, ran home poured it all in around the pool.. All the stains did lighten up from BLACK to light brown..




    This is the POOL test results & Acid I used..


    I've been getting in the pool every day with a wire brush and scrubbing for hours each day.. I also went back and got a 2nd bottle of Ascorbic Acid and when I TESTED in a small place, it got EVEN worse, this time dark brown for a few min, then a redish color for a few min, then yellow.. then back to light brown.. WHAT THE HECK is happening? I'm SWEARING off Copper for sure after a few hrs of reading here.. is there any hope of having my BEAUTIFUL sparkling white NEW pool back???


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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    Welcome BWesson.. I'm sorry you only found us after all these unfortunate chemistry experiments. I don't even know what the purpose of Root Killer in a pool is, but I sure don't wanna swim in it.

    First off- we rarely *ever* trust pool store tests. They just can't get 'em right, but guaranteed they'll usually find a problem to sell you the "cure" for. Amiright? We think all pool owners should have their own reliable test kit- no one will care for your pool as well as you when it comes to testing.
    You have a beautifuly built large pool, so I won't beat around the bush- Go online to TFTestkits.net and order the TF-100 XL with a Speed Stir device. They ship from NC so it will be pretty fast to you.

    I would say that your best bet since you're awash with copper and stains is to drain the pool. Then you'll have nice clean fresh water to start again with and we'll walk you thru the right steps. If it were only a few stains we could work on them with sequestrants and acid treatments, but you'd have to keep dealing with it forever since copper doesn't go away. Sadly you've got a mess of stains... just wouldn't be practical IMO.

    Let us know what you decide, 'k?

    Yip
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    Welcome to TFP!

    If you copy the IMG code to the right of the pic in PB and paste it in your post it will embed in your thread like this


    I don't think you let the AA treatment go long enough or used enough AA. It should clear up the stains. Did you follow this process, Ascorbic Treatment to rid Pool of metal stains. Once the stains are up and sequestered then you can do a,partial drain to start removing the copper from the water. Careful about draining your pool fully you don't want it to pop out of the ground.
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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    Ascorbic acid treatments don't work well on copper stains. You need to check out Jacks Magic Stain removal program. You'll likely need their Jacks Magic Blue Stuff Copper and Scale remover. I believe it is sulfamic acid based and is designed to aggressively remove copper. They also have a stain ID kit which you can used to exactly pin point which if their products will work best. If you were using root killer, then it was likely very concentrated copper sulfate.

    You are going to need to consider draining your pool at some point. The Jacks Magic program can fix the stains BUT that only puts the copper BACK into the water. This means the next time you elevate chlorine again, you'll likely get copper stains again. Sequestrants can help but the only cure is removing the water.
    Matt
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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    Well.... Looks like a DRAIN and ACID wash is in my near future..!

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    I would suggest using a professional's help, they may be most helpful with how to empty the most pool safely as well as the fastest work on the stains. I'm sure you could do it yourself with good directions but.....?
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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    Quote Originally Posted by bwesson View Post
    Well.... Looks like a DRAIN and ACID wash is in my near future..!
    Not necessarily on the acid wash. In fact, acid washing your brand new plaster is highly discouraged as it will only roughen up the surface and make the plaster weaker and more susceptible to staining.

    What you need to consider doing is chemically treating the stains with a product like Jacks Magic to remove the stains and sequester the metal and then drain the pool when the time is right. You can't always drain a pool 100% but you can drain it maybe 75% and that will be a huge improvement. Then, with enough partial drains over time, your water can be made close to metal free.

    Your current predicament resulted from bad information and rash actions. Don't make it worse with even more rash actions.
    Matt
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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    Yay! A better solution!! <whew!> No one wants to hurt their pool but his stains were so extensive and his Copper so high I thought for sure it was the only way out.

    Thank you Matt ..... and no more Root Killer, 'k Bwesson?
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    Oh GOD Matt..! I was already planning the drain! Gosh.. I'm glad you chimed in.. Ok, so 1st order get the Jacks magic blue stuff in PRONTO.. Should I stick to the directed amounts? Or go BIG for so much staining? How often should I Re-add if stains remain? I'll also order a couple months of the CuLator to draw out the copper, perhaps plan a half drain in coming weeks to get it diluted down..then more over weeks.. I'll also get a good test kit like Yip said, TF-100 XL. Ok, I'll get all that on the way here and let you guys know when, and how it progresses... Thanks for all the help guys.. I've got a LOT of reading and prob questions to understanding the TFP methods.. And NO killer COPPER EVER AGAIN!

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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    Please go over to the Jacks Magic website and read about their product line FIRST before you buy anything. You can also call their technical support number and talk to an expert there. They have a line of different products for different pool types and setups so you should talk to them first so you get the right product for your pool.

    The CuLator, in my personal opinion, is a waste of money. I really don't believe they work nor have I seen any scientific evidence that they are effective beyond the companies sales and marketing literature. You can certainly buy them if you like, but I consider them to be just placebos and a waste of money.
    Matt
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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    Please listen to JoyfulNoise/Matt. There is no need to buy months worth of anything, and please don't add anything to the pool that isn't suggested here by a consensus of posters.
    Should I stick to the directed amounts? Or go BIG for so much staining?
    I give this advice often, and I hope you take it more than anyone ever has. SLOW HALF STEPS. Especially at first. ESPECIALLY on pH adjusters/CYA/CH. If the (proper) Magic Jacks instructions say add 1 bottle, do just that. I can't think of any situation where adding significantly more than recommended "helps" or speeds things along. In almost every application I can think of one creates larger problems by doing so.
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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    Welcome to TFP! Good to have you here

    That's a beautiful pool, and with a careful plan laid out by the experts here it will be beautiful again. Take a deep breath, and plan out the right steps. You've got some amazing expert advisors on your side now.
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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    If you plan on draining some, I'd probably do that before you add anything. Otherwise you'll just be draining it back out. It might be a great idea to double check here before you actually add anything, just to make sure it's the right thing and AT the right amount. Obviously it's easier to prevent mishaps than to correct them! Hope you already ordered that test kit!
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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    OK..! You're all RIGHT... I think my willingness to JUMP at the gun is what creates my problems~! I've ordered EVERYTHING already, but that doesn't mean it's in the POOL.. I'll send the CuLators (3 months) back.. I'll call the Guys at Jack's and discuss my stains like Matt said, make sure I got the right stuff.. I did order 3 bottles of the BLUE, again.. It's NOT in the POOL yet.. And good point PAGirl, no point in adding anything until I drain a bit of that COPPER water out... I'll post back here and let ya'll know what they say.. I'm Definitely going to need GUIDANCE to understand the methods to keeping my NEW pool beautiful... It's a SHAME I didn't find the FORUM before my MESS UP.. It would have NEVER happened if I knew the dangers of COPPER... And If my FRIEND ever comes over I'm going to DROWN him in my pool for telling me to use copper sulfate!

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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    Good to hear Hey, did you order the test kit? TFTestkits.net (order the TF100).

    Your water looks clean now, so you'll want to keep it that way throughout the steps ahead. Develop a plan with Matt for chlorinating. There's some special requirements related to the copper and the staining, so I'm not about to suggest anything. It's best if only one or two cooks stir this pot
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    Two things -

    #1 - Stop using CAPS LOCK or I'll unfollow this thread;

    and

    #2 - can you go get your water tested for copper? Go to a pool store, tell them you need to test your water for copper, let them test your water, ignore all of the advice they give you and use their print outs to make paper airplanes. Do not buy anything they tell you that you must buy. If you feel bad about not buying something, then buy a pool noodle or a 2x1 gallon case of 10% liquid chlorine. All you need is the copper number.

    Alternatively - since you like to buy stuff, you can purchase your own copper test kit from TFTestkits...(but you really don't need to..)
    Matt
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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    Ok.. Sorry about the CAPS... The water analysis says copper is at 3. Test strip image below.


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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    What's up with that picture, it looks like you edited in a test strip picture over a picture of the bottle?

    image.jpg

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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    I wonder if it is higher than 3.

    The strip looks off colored. What is up with it? It is like it is a glow in the dark color.

    I would take the water to a P$ like Matt said. You really need to know how high your copper is so we know where to go from there.

    Matt? Draining the water? What are your thoughts on that now?

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Copper Sulfate usage???

    There are, according to the previous pool images, possible copper stains all over his pool. I would not drain until those stains are lifted.

    My recommendation stands - get an accurate copper number AND CALL Jacks Magic technical support.

    You need a stain expert there to tell you which product will work the best for lifting/removing stains. Once you get that info, then proceed with the chemical treatment and drain/refill.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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