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Thread: Pump Replacement Recommendation Please

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    Question Pump Replacement Recommendation Please

    I have a pump that has continued to leak and I'm to the point of just replacing it. Bought the house with the pool last year and have no idea how long the existing pump has been in service, but the casing is cracked where the bolts attach the wet end to the dry end and the seal of the pump housing leaks as well. I was successful last summer with putting silicon caulking on many places to try to stop the leak, but tonight it sprang a brand new leak and was shooting up into the air. Time to replace it as I'm just done with it and would rather have something that works and doesn't take any more time trying to troubleshoot. (in other words, I'd rather be in the pool)

    So, could someone help me figure out what to replace the old pump with? Attached are 2 pictures...one of the existing motor info and another of the pump housing (I've already scraped alot of the silicon from the pipe joint on top of the pump). I have no idea what brand it is to start with.
    Pump Housing.jpgPump Plate.jpg

    So I'm trying to replace a 1.0 HP pump and with the new pumps out there, not sure I need all that power anymore.

    I have a 13,000 Gallon pool with a Sand Filter.
    1 1/2 pipe from simmer basket to pump and from pump back to pool.
    We heat the pool by diverting the flow to some solar panels on the roof of the house, so we still need to be able to pump water to that height. The pipe to the roof and back is 2 inch.
    No water features.

    I've read some of the threads on the forum and found information that putting a pump that is too powerful can ruin the sand filter, however with our existing pump, I notice a true difference in water flow as seen in the clear pump lid when the water is being sent to the roof. The sand filter gains pressure as well (up to about 10 lbs) when going on the roof. I assume that is normal but don't really know for sure.

    Can someone help me figure out the right type of pump to replace this one? Once I'm done with this, perhaps my existing motor can be moved into the garage...I've always wanted a bench grinder.

    thanks,
    Patrick Smith
    Patrick Smith
    13,000 Gallon Gunnite

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    Re: Pump Replacement Recommendation Please

    You sort of have few options here ....

    Option 1 - Least favorable and not recommended: Blindly replace it with another 2 Speed 1HP Pump or a 1 HP Var Spd Programmable Pump.

    Option 2 - More complicated process, in the end you'll have a better designed system with fewer problems: Obtain a copy of the pool design plans from your city/town engineering dept. Once you have the plans you can find the Static Head, Total Dynamic Head, and the Return Flow Rate that was spec'd. Then you can compare those numbers to your Filters Flow Rate and start looking at some of the VS Pump Performance Curves ... what you are looking for is the point on the pumps curve where the GPM meet the TDH.

    With a good Var Spd Programmable Pump you can program the pump to run at a higher RPM when Priming the Pump and the Solar Panels. Then once the Solar Panel is primed the pump will drop its RMP's and your Flow Rate can return to engineered specs or lower. Operating the VS Pump at a lower RPM/Wattage usage increases the time to complete a turnover but it cost less to operate the pump.

    Not sure where you're located but local codes might required a certain # of turnovers each day. If it increase your Flow Rate it will change the cross points on the pumps curve.

    If you're close to the edge of the pumps max RPM curve you should go to the next pump size. No point in spending extra money for a VS Programmable Pump if you're going to run it close its max RPM rate. The whole idea behind a VS pump is to reduce its RPM/Watts as low as possible but still delivering the correct Flow Rate for proper pool turnover at less power.

    Some questions ....
    Are you using a manual or auto valve to control the flow to and from the roof?
    Is there a vacuum break on the solar panels that operates when the solar panels are off-line/de energrized?
    Where else are valves being used?
    Can you create a block sketch of the plumping layout?
    What Model Filter are you using?
    Did you ever have a Flow Meter on the Return? If so, do you recall any of the readings?

    Good Luck!
    60' x 30' IG concrete pool built in 1998. 2 - 2" Suction Line( 2-Skimmers/2-Way Jandy Valve per line); 1 - 3" Suction Line (Floor Drain/ 2-Way Jandy Valve); 1 - 3" Return 8 Floor Outlets; 1 - Pentair IntelliFlo VS Prog Pump 240V/3HP (2013); 2 - Triton TR-140C Sand Filters Tandem Config (2013); 1 - In-line Chlorinator (2015). Misc - Pool Use: May to Sept; Turnovers: 2.5; Pump Operation: 23hrs

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    Re: Pump Replacement Recommendation Please

    Does the current pump give you decent flow when you use the solar?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Replacement Recommendation Please

    Keep in mind that the payback on a variable speed pump is at about 25¢ per kwh electric cost. If your electric cost is below about 25¢/kwh then it's usually less expensive to go with a 2-speed. However, with your solar setup, a variable speed pump may allow you to fine tune the flow through the collectors.

    Having said that, you normally want as much flow through the solar collectors as possible, up to the design recommendation, in order to gain as much heat as possible.

    After all that rambling, If the answer to Dave's question is yes, I'd recommend a full rated 1 hp 2-speed pump. Since I don't know whether your current pump is wired for 115 or 230 volts I can't make a specific recommendation.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Pump Replacement Recommendation Please

    Also look for rebates from your power company for switching to a new 2 speed or VS pump. In some areas they can be as much as 300 back on the purchase of a new pump. Its worth it to ask. If you are happy with the performance of the pump as it is there is no need to change the HP rating on your pump. A 2 speed pump would be an option where you would use low speed for skimming the pool with the solar system bypassed and full speed for when the solar system was in use. A VS pump can be set to match changing conditions and will typically not need run at anywhere near full speed for a pool your size, but the return on investment may not be there. On an aesthetic note the a VS pump will be quietest pump to use even when running at higher rpms than the other two pumps. The 2 speed pump on low will be very quiet but will sound about the same as a single speed pump run when it is on high.
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

    Photos of 2016 Build, Inside Your Breaker Panel, Free Copy of 2017 NEC code
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    Re: Pump Replacement Recommendation Please

    Thank you all for replying.
    Questions answered below:

    Are you using a manual or auto valve to control the flow to and from the roof?
    Manual
    Is there a vacuum break on the solar panels that operates when the solar panels are off-line/de energrized?
    Not that I'm aware of. When we divert flow to the solar panels, we get alot of bubbles for a bit and then comes the warmer water.
    Where else are valves being used?
    The only valve I know of is the check valve before the filter and then the manual control valve that I use to divert the water flow.
    Can you create a block sketch of the plumping layout?
    I've attached a rudimentary drawing.
    Pool Block Diagram.JPG
    What Model Filter are you using?
    Not sure of the model, but it has a Sta-Rite tag on the side. It is about 24 inches in diameter and perhaps 36+ inches tall.
    Did you ever have a Flow Meter on the Return? If so, do you recall any of the readings?
    I have not.

    I do have a decent water flow regardless of whether the solar panels are engaged or not.

    As for 115 or 230, the current pump is running from 2 30amp breakers tied together (same as a clothes dryer in the house). Does that mean it's wired at 230?

    Kwh here in Richland, WA are at .06. I didn't see any rebate offers for pool pumps as I researched it on the web. Thanks for the idea though...that would have been cool.

    One thing I noticed last year when I closed the pool is that while my main drain is tied to the skimmer basket, I don't get any flow through it. In fact, once last year the skimmer basket door got stuck and the basket went dry. I had to replace the seal on the pump and thus my troubles began with more silicon and the discovery that the pump in fact leaks. It's obviously been repaired before based on other seal boxes I've found in the pump house. Does it matter for water flow that the main drain doesn't seem to push water into the basket since there is ample supply as water just flows from the pool into the basket?

    I appreciate each of your replies and your help in identifying my next pump.
    Patrick Smith
    13,000 Gallon Gunnite

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    Re: Pump Replacement Recommendation Please

    If your skimmer ran dry and both skimmer and main drain were lined up your pump would have sucked in the air and lost its prime. It's much easier for the pump to suck air even though its very bad for it. If you were happy with the flow of your pump and your system was working well then there is no real need to change anything. If you are looking to save on electricity and run a lil quieter when the solar system is out of the loop a 2 speed pump is worth looking into. A VS pump will be a lot of money with no real benefit over a 2 speed for you other than it being quieter. You are wired for 230v, so you should replace the current pump with one that is the same. The pump may be broken but it doesn't sound like the design of the system was so there is no need to change anything really.
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

    Photos of 2016 Build, Inside Your Breaker Panel, Free Copy of 2017 NEC code
    TFP is funded by member support click here to help

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    Re: Pump Replacement Recommendation Please

    One caveat that I failed to mention is that before the manual valve to send water to the roof, I have a 1 inch pipe connected to a booster pump for a polaris 360. I've found that I have to plug the port at the pool in order to maintain pressure and have good flow to the roof. If I don't plug that port, it ends up being the path of least resistance.

    Is the booster pump a necessary component of a good polaris system or would I be better off simply using a 2 speed pump and installing another valve inline to divert flow to the polaris when I want to run it?

    thanks in advance...
    Patrick Smith
    13,000 Gallon Gunnite

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Replacement Recommendation Please

    Since you have a pressure side cleaner you have to have the booster pump to run it. Your regular filter pump doesn't produce enough pressure to run the cleaner.

    You could put a valve in the booster pump line after it takes off and use that to stop the flow when running the solar.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Pump Replacement Recommendation Please

    I would move the suction line for the booster pump to a point after the 3 way valve. That is after the solar panels between the valve and the swimming pool.
    In ground, 14,000 gallon, white plaster, unheated, stone waterfall, DE Filter, Rainbow 320 Cl, Polaris 3900, FloVis flow meter, F100 test kit, Circupool RJ30+ SWG, Circupool VJ1/Speck Badu EcoM3V variable speed pump.

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    Re: Pump Replacement Recommendation Please

    I'm with Bama Rambler on the 1hp 2sp pump... I would go with a Pentair SuperFlo 230v 2sp 1hp pump for your application, model 340042 (unless you want to buy my 1.5hp SuperFlo VS for $325 which needs bearings ) ....

    couple of thoughts....

    -You are wired for 230v but 30 amps is probably excessive even with the booster pump (which might be on a different circuit anyway) so I would replace your 30 amp breaker with a 20 or 30 amp GFCI breaker for protection (depending on the draw of the booster, whether it is on the same circuit, and anything else on the circuit as well)

    -Do you not have a check valve on your return line from the solar panels? If not and your panels are draining down when not in use (like they should be), then you are pushing water back up through the return line of the solar system even when they are not in use (not advisable)... If you do not have a check valve on your return line from the solar, I would put one in.

    -I would DEFINITELY keep the Polaris 360 and the booster pump. Pressure side cleaners are typical the least expensive to maintain IMO. But I would put a ball valve on that line, that way you are not using the pressure side port as another return and reducing your flow when the solar system is on. If you can move to after your solar diverter as WASP said is best, it will help if you are using the solar and the cleaner at the same time, but it's not a necessity. A ball valve would suffice and then just do your cleaning when the solar is not on and you will be fine...but ideally after the solar diverter valve would be best, that way you wouldn't have to worry about cleaning vs solar....
    20k Gunite 16' x 32' , Hayward c7030 700 sq ft cartridge filter. Pentair Superflo 1hp 2sp pump, Intellichlor IC40 w/ Power Center SWG, Hayward GL-235 Solar Controller, (2) Digital GE Timers.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Replacement Recommendation Please

    There is a pic of my solar plumbing in my build thread, link in sig. Left pipe goes up to solar from the filter and right pipe returns from solar to the SWG. The check valve on the left, under the solar valve, stops water from coming back down from the solar panels to the filter. The check valve on the right above the bridge stops water from being pumped up to solar backwards. When solar turns off the water drains down through the solar valve bleeder across the H and on to the SWG/pool.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Pump Replacement Recommendation Please

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    There is a pic of my solar plumbing in my build thread, link in sig. Left pipe goes up to solar from the filter and right pipe returns from solar to the SWG. The check valve on the left, under the solar valve, stops water from coming back down from the solar panels to the filter. The check valve on the right above the bridge stops water from being pumped up to solar backwards. When solar turns off the water drains down through the solar valve bleeder across the H and on to the SWG/pool.
    So does your solar valve have 3 positions then? Does it know when the pump is off vs when the pump is on but solar is off?
    20k Gunite 16' x 32' , Hayward c7030 700 sq ft cartridge filter. Pentair Superflo 1hp 2sp pump, Intellichlor IC40 w/ Power Center SWG, Hayward GL-235 Solar Controller, (2) Digital GE Timers.

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