Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Electric Shock!

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Minford, OH
    Posts
    8

    Electric Shock!

    Hello, everyone. We're experiencing an electrical shock in our inground pool. It's a 16 x 32 salt water pool with a propane heater and an automatic pool cover. The cover motor has a ground rod driven next to it with a copper wire to the exposed metal on the cover structure.

    I'm testing 1.5vac from the water to any ground outside of the pool including ladder couplings and metal slide legs but not to the exposed metal on the automatic pool cover. There is a bond wire from the pump to a driven ground rod away from the pool and another bond wire that runs from the ground rod to the other end of the pool. It appears to go into the concrete to a light in the pool. I cannot find another bond wire on the other side of the pool. The voltage disappears once I disconnect the pump cord from the gfci. I used an analog multimeter and tested resistance from the exposed bond wire at the pump to all of the metal parts around the pool, including exposed coping where the paint had chipped. I'm showing zero resistance to these objects.

    Due to the pump being part of the bonding loop, is it possible that the pool is bonded correctly yet still get stray voltage in the pool because its actually part of the loop? I've had the POCO out twice and their positive its not on their end.

    Thanks for your help!

  2. Back To Top    #2


    TFP Guide

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Quaker Hill, CT
    Posts
    1,256

    Re: Electric Shock!

    First off there should be no rods driven in a bond loop. Your pool ladder, water, pump, heater, light, pool deck and and anything over 4 square inches of metal within 5 feet of the pool should be bonded. The bonding should never touch the equipment grounding wires (the insulated green wires). If you have voltage from the water to the deck around your pool the the first thing you need to check is your water bonding point.
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

    Photos of 2016 Build, Inside Your Breaker Panel, Free Copy of 2017 NEC code
    TFP is funded by member support click here to help

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Minford, OH
    Posts
    8

    Re: Electric Shock!

    The wire from the pump is connected to it by an external lug on the case. It's an 8 guage wire that connects to a ground rod via an acorn clamp approximately 5 ft behind the pump. Another 8 guage wire connects from there and travels half way around the pool underground.
    Last edited by TheRick33; 07-03-2016 at 06:50 PM. Reason: Clarification

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Sacramento Area, CA
    Posts
    22

    Re: Electric Shock!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRick33 View Post
    .

    The voltage disappears once I disconnect the pump cord from the gfci.

    !
    1. You should provide a detailed equipment list either here or in your signature

    2. What do you mean by the above quote? Only one pump; this pump is a plug in pump; on or off the voltage disappears when you unplug it??
    In ground, plaster, medgrey; 30k Gall; irregular, approx 32x18 feet ;4' to 9' depth
    1.5HP whisperflo w/ NSP72 DE filter; Solar heat (12x12x4 Fafco); Disappearing edge (2HP whisperflo for edge); waterwitch
    Salt Chlorinator abandoned after 3 replacements and 6 cells over 18 years....

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    23,999

    Re: Electric Shock!

    TFP Moderator
    If TFP helped you or saved you money - Become a TFP Supporter! <--Click here
    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,769

    Re: Electric Shock!

    Cjadmec above is correct. I would first make sure your water is bonded. Is there a water bond in the light niche. Do you understand what a water bond is?

    You have two problems. You have some stray voltage or a short to ground near your pool and your pool is not properly bonded.

    First make sure you have a water bond. Then unless the entire pool structure is metal, make sure each support piece and all metal attached to the pool is bonded. Water bonds look here: Amazon.com: Burndy Waterbug Pool Water Bonding Kit Ul: Kitchen Dining or here Amazon.com : Perma-Cast PB2008 Water Bonding Fitting : Patio, Lawn Garden

    I like the second one.

    Take your pump to a shop and have them bench test it to see why it is causing a bonding problem.

    If you so all this and it doesn't work call an electrician. My normal response is to call an electrician .To test your pool bonding the video below describes a test for electricians to test pool bonding: Swimming Pool Equipotential Bonding [Part 3 of 3, Testing], (28min:39sec) - YouTube

    Ground rods attached to the bonding loop do nothing. Ground rods attached to equipment grounding conductors should never be placed near pools. The equipment grounding conductor (the ground wire) should never be attached to the bonding circuit.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Minford, OH
    Posts
    8

    Re: Electric Shock!

    1. Hayward Superflow Pump 1.5hp and Hayward sand filter.

    2. One pump, which plugs into a dedicated circuit with a GFCI receptacle. The voltage leak disappears when I unplug the pump from the GFCI. The SWG is wired into a separate circuit. No changes in voltage with that circuit breaker on or off. Both GFCI's tested good. The voltage only disappears when the pump/motor is disconnected from the power source.

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Minford, OH
    Posts
    8

    Re: Electric Shock!

    To add, I've tested all the metal structures around the pool and I'm showing less than 1 ohm resistance between the bond wire at the pump and the metal objects around the pool, except for two objects (basketball goal and metal slide legs).

    Another thing to note, the pool light would trip the GFCI after about 10 minutes of being on. I completely unwired it from the circuit because I figured water was getting into it. I replaced the GFCI as well.
    Last edited by TheRick33; 07-03-2016 at 09:14 PM. Reason: Additional Info

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,769

    Re: Electric Shock!

    Its pretty clear your water is not bonded. Read my post above and add a water bond. But you need to find what the voltage leak is in the pump.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Minford, OH
    Posts
    8

    Re: Electric Shock!

    I don't remember seeing any fittings for a water bond, at least nothing that's visible in any of the exposed plumbing.

    Even if the pump motor is the source of the voltage leak, I should see 0 volts in a completely bonded pool, correct? The reason I ask is that If my problem is indeed a missing water bond, then I should be able to attach a wire from the bond wire and submerge it into the pool water and erase the voltage in the water even if the pump continues to leak voltage.
    Last edited by TheRick33; 07-03-2016 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Additional Info

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,769

    Re: Electric Shock!

    Yes in theory that is correct. But you can't test the water that way. You have to test for voltage. Watch the video in the link I posted above.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

  12. Back To Top    #12


    TFP Guide

    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Quaker Hill, CT
    Posts
    1,256

    Re: Electric Shock!

    Code us minimum 9 inches square of surface in contact with the water that's a lot of wire in the pool. My guess is when you unwired your lite niche you inadvertently removed your water bond. A lot of in ground pools use the lite as the water bond. Either that or a metal ladder.
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

    Photos of 2016 Build, Inside Your Breaker Panel, Free Copy of 2017 NEC code
    TFP is funded by member support click here to help

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Minford, OH
    Posts
    8

    Re: Electric Shock!

    Update: There isn't a single pool store in 50 miles of me that has a clue what water bonding is. So to test if it was a water bonding issue, I submerged a 12in crescent wrench that was wired back to the exposed bond wire at the pump. I had no changes on the voltage in the water.

    After I tried that, I connected an extension wire from the bond wire at the pump to my known (or so I think) bonded points around the pool (ladder sockets, coping, etc). Low and behold, the voltage disappears. All of these spots showed <1 ohm when I measured them back to the same point. Can anyone explain what I have going on here?

    On a side note, the light in the pool has neither continuity to the bond wire nor voltage when measured from the outside casing back to ground. It is completely unwired from any circuit. This is the only metal object in the pool. The ladders are external due to the pool cover.

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Minford, OH
    Posts
    8

    Re: Electric Shock!

    Bump. Anyone?

  15. Back To Top    #15
    borjis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Pacific NW
    Posts
    2,059

    Re: Electric Shock!

    You may end up needing to either:

    Get a bond to the light to bond the water.

    buy one of those ul listed, skimmer water bug bond add ons (amazon has them) to bond the water.

    I have not had any shock/voltage issues but my ladder that goes in the water had no bonding and I connected
    that with 8 gauge bare copper wire to the pump bond lug to feel safer about it.

    But it sounds like you just have rails on the deck so that wouldn't help your situation.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
    Dolphin E10 Cleaning Robot.

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Minford, OH
    Posts
    8

    Re: Electric Shock!

    Update:

    I purchased the a water bond kit and connected it to the water. Here's what's going on now...

    1) The voltage disappears from the water to the bonded points around the pool when I connect the other end of the water bond to any one of the other bonded points (ladders, heater, etc. but not the pump)

    2) When I connect the water bond kit to the bond wire at the pump, the voltage remains. It only goes away when I diconnect the bond wire totally from the pump. With that in mind, I figured the pump bonding wire wasn't attached to any of the other bonding points (ladders, etc) so I jumped an additional wire from the pump back to the heater (which is now the connection point for the water bond as well) and the voltage still remains...

    The voltage does not disappear if the pump is connected to any of the other bonding points. It only goes away when the water bond is connected to the other bonded points.

    What's your take on this?

  17. Back To Top    #17
    borjis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Pacific NW
    Posts
    2,059

    Re: Electric Shock!

    is the bond lug on the motor clean?

    Twice when I have dealt with this (2 different pools) the lug was filthy and had some light corrosion.

    Have you shined them all up to shiny copper connections?
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
    Dolphin E10 Cleaning Robot.

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,769

    Re: Electric Shock!

    I'm concerned about the pump.

    First the water bond should be installed as close to the pool as possible. While some folks say the heater is ok, the closer to the pool the better.

    When the bonding system is all connected where do you get voltage, from where to where?

    cover to deck? cover motor to deck

    deck to water

    water to heater

    pump to heater

    When you kill the subpanel or main does it go way, what circuit does it originate from if it is even from your house.
    22k gallon IG pebblefina, Jandy 1.5 HP VS, Jandy CV Cartridge filter, Fafco solar panels, Polaris 360 supply side cleaner, waterfall

  19. Back To Top    #19

    TFP Guide

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    western NY
    Posts
    1,557

    Re: Electric Shock!

    As Gwegan said, I too, am concerned about the pump. Is the pump on a GFCI?

    Dan
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •