Warning: "Diamond Clear Mega Shock" contains CYA!!!

[lhh]

Hello All:

Be careful with the product "Diamond Clear Mega Shock" by AMCO:

http://www.amcoincusa.com/mega-shock.html

This product contains CYA! I found out the hard way thinking that I was using a bleach-only product. My CYA level crept up from 75 to 100 in four weeks by SLAMing for opening the pool and the maintaining FC. Here is an excerpt from the correspondence with the manufacturer:

"...Our product contains a small amount of Cyanuric Acid (stabilizer) but it's possible you might need some additional stabilizer if you notice the shock is being "eaten up" by the sun too quick. It's important to have good CYA levels to prevent just that..."

Back to 8.25% household bleach...

- Lutz

 

[pabeader]

Thanks for the heads up! A liquid chlorine with CYA, that's a new one on me...

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I find it very hard to believe that this product could contain any CYA at all. The combination of high hypochlorite content (10-15%) coupled with the high pH (~12) needed to stabilize the hypochlorite ion would literally destroy any organic compound in solution with it. I guess you have to take the manufacturer at their word but it really seems implausible to me that there could be any measurable increase in CYA from using this product. From this thread, the reaction is as follows -


2(HNCO)3 + 9ClO- ---> 3N2 + 6CO2 + 9Cl- + 3H2O
Cyanuric Acid + Hypochlorite Ion --> Nitrogen Gas + Carbon Dioxide + Chloride Ion + Water


So it seems to me that if they did indeed add any CYA, it would be converted into salt, CO2 and nitrogen gas fairly quickly.

 

[AimeeH]

I find it very hard to believe that this product could contain any CYA at all. The combination of high hypochlorite content (10-15%) coupled with the high pH (~12) needed to stabilize the hypochlorite ion would literally destroy any organic compound in solution with it. I guess you have to take the manufacturer at their word but it really seems implausible to me that there could be any measurable increase in CYA from using this product. From this thread, the reaction is as follows -


2(HNCO)3 + 9ClO- ---> 3N2 + 6CO2 + 9Cl- + 3H2O
Cyanuric Acid + Hypochlorite Ion --> Nitrogen Gas + Carbon Dioxide + Chloride Ion + Water


So it seems to me that if they did indeed any CYA, it would be converted into salt, CO2 and nitrogen gas fairly quickly.

I couldn't find any mention of it skimming the link to the MSDS sheet on their site.

 

[duraleigh]

Nope. No CYA mentioned in the MSDS.

 

[lhh]

Hmm, I don't think CYA needs to be reported in safety data sheets. Here are a couple of SDSs for trichloro tabs - no mention of CYA even though we know it's there.

http://www.kellysolutions.com/erene...HLORINATING_TABLETS_12_11_2009_4_15_49_PM.pdf

http://kik-sds.thewercs.com/private...option=d__~value~&productID_option=d__~value~

The reaction shown above seems convincing that CYA cannot survive in a hypochlorite solution...I will contact AMCO again and see if I can get past the sales person and talk to a tech person.

- Lutz

 

[AimeeH]

It is part of the chemical compound

Trichloroisocyanuric acid

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Ok, this is a common misconception - there is no physical quantity of CYA in dichlor and trichlor because dichlor and trichlor are chlorinated cyanurates, i.e., they are themselves a form of cyanuric acid. I realize this can be confusing to understand if your not familiar with the detailed chemistry of cyanurates but CYA, dichlor and trichlor are all versions of triazine-trione ring compound.

 

[lhh]

You learn something new every day

I've got a call into AMCO to see what the deal is with 'mega shock'...I will post my findings.

 

[JamesW]

The employee of the manufacturer is probably wrong. Hypochlorite and cyanuric acid can produce nitrogen trichloride, an unstable and explosive gas.

Incompatible Materials: Iron, copper, nickel, cobalt, acids, ammonium or other nitrogen containing compounds, organics…
-From the MSDS

CYA is an organic, nitrogen containing compound.

If the product contained cyanuric acid, it would be in the SDS (new name for MSDS).

I can pretty much assure you that there is no way sodium hypochlorite would or could contain cyanuric acid.

Sodium hydroxide is added as a stabilizer. That is probably the “Stabilizer” that they are referring to.

 

[smackdab]

Every msds I've ever looked at has always shown CYA if there was any.

 

[JamesW]

The reaction of an isocyanurate with hypochlorite can result in rapid formation of nitrogen trichloride, which at high enough concentrations will detonate spontaneously with great violence.
https://www.taylortechnologies.com/ChemistryTopicsCM.ASP?ContentID=73

See the above reference.

 

[domct203]

I've used 5 or 6 gallons in my pool so far and see no noticeable rise in CYA.

Dom

 

[domct203]

I verified my CYA levels yesterday and they have actually dropped a bit from splashout/topoff/rain.

That fact, & no listing of CYA in the SDS seems to prove that the person you spoke with is miss-informed, and spreading that miss-information.

I also had a look around their website, their 'directions' for the product leave a lot to be desired.....

http://www.amcoincusa.com/directions.html

"Opening" Step 10

If you notice your pool water still having a slight green tint, apply Diamond Clear Algaecide to remove the algae in your pool water and prevent more from growing

Hmm, well that may be half right.....

"Opening" Step 12

This cloudiness is due to all the dead bacteria floating around

I didn't think you could see bacteria with your naked eye, dead or alive?

"Maintaining a clean, clear and safe pool" Point 3

Algae can arise from high temperatures, rain water, kids running from the grass into the pool and many other factors

Hmm... there's that urban legend..... rain makes algae bloom ...... and the high temps make algae spores immune to chlorine???

Then there is the "Before & After" picture:


How did they get every shadow to fall in the exact same spot for both pictures?

Then it appears that they had Mother Nature line the clouds back up exactly the same as well.......... how nice of her.

Looks like another green pool cleared with Photoshop brand sanitizer .........

Dom

 

[Waggy]

maybe it just works incredibly quickly lol

 

[wjr75]

What a scam

 

[domct203]

You learn something new every day

I've got a call into AMCO to see what the deal is with 'mega shock'...I will post my findings.

Did they ever bother to return your call?

Dom

 

[michaelrbanks]

Looks like another green pool cleared with Photoshop brand sanitizer .........

That's soooo bad! Look at the coping on the lower-left edge of the green pool, especially the corner by the ladder - it's not even straight!

 

[PAGirl]

It's sad when company reps don't know their own products!

 

[robbegginer]

Hi Dom,

I know this thread is a little old, but I just saw Amco's "Diamond" pool chemicals at a local discounter and found this thread while researching them, because their price is low and no shipping & convenient for me. Just never heard of them before.

Other than lame marketing and less than fully knowledgable employees, what is your opinion of the product?

I'm thinking of using their algaecide & clarifier, and maybe the winterizer later.

Thanks,
Rob