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Thread: First SLAM but water milky

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    First SLAM but water milky

    I have been struggling all year with this pool. Last year, the pool store had me running circles. I gave it one more shot to open up this year and never got anywhere. Still had a swamp and they had $300 of my money. So I made the change. I started the SLAM this past Thursday after getting my other chems in line. My FC=0, CC=0, pH=7.3 (down from WAY high, well beyond 8.4 where my test kit stops), TA=80, CH=120, and CYA=55 (added a WEEE bit too much). I believe I have a bad scaling issue because of the high ph/TA. the vinyl liner feels like sandpaper.

    So that was 3.5 day ago. I've added probably ~40 gallons for liquid chlorine, trying to keep my FC up in the low twenties. So i've got a handle on the algae, but the milky water doesn't change. I can barely see the first step in my pool and nothing else. I have a robot running around in there to stir things up. but nothing is getting clear.

    Am I doing this right. I get the whole POP idea, which is fine. However, I am putting SOOO much energy and $$$$ into this pool I just want to make sure I'm not leaving anything out. I've read baking soda can help clear water, is it worth it had this point? I am not done with the slam at this point. OCLT is around 10ppm, the water is clear and I have NO idea where the CC is.

    Does any of this sound like I'm on the right path? I need something to bolster me onwards! (i'll post a full test tonight, cause I know you all geek out like that )
    26k GALLONS, HAYWARD 1HP FILTER PUMP
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    VINYL LINER, DOLPHIN DX3S (HERBIE)

    7 YR OLD SON, ASKING FOR WATER: "I FEEL LIKE A DEHYDRATING CRAB"

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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    I would probably floc the pool... for whatever reason, I think floc is frowned on by members here - but I think it would clear your pool & save you some headache.

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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    Our years of reports indicate that floc is not necessary and is often a setback rather than a help.

    Starting a SLAM on Thursday and expecting it to be clear on Sunday is wa-a-ay overly optimistic.

    Keep that robot running, brush the sides, clean your filter when necessary, run your pump 24/7 and keep SLAMming by keeping the FC up.
    Dave S.
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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    Thanks for the reinforcement, Duraleigh. Viking, floc is now a nuclear option. I did it after opening last year. It was a total nightmare. Every time the floc settled, I would vacuum it out. I was told to vacuum to waste so i would drain the pool below the skimmers in a matter of minutes. It took AGES to get the pool back. I think I'd rather empty the pool and refill then go that way again.

    That said, I was probably doing something wrong....eventually I will figure out this whole pool ownership thing!
    26k GALLONS, HAYWARD 1HP FILTER PUMP
    HAYWARD 300# SAND FILTER - NEW SAND AS OF 6/16
    VINYL LINER, DOLPHIN DX3S (HERBIE)

    7 YR OLD SON, ASKING FOR WATER: "I FEEL LIKE A DEHYDRATING CRAB"

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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    Quote Originally Posted by ar.control.tech View Post
    Thanks for the reinforcement, Duraleigh. Viking, floc is now a nuclear option. I did it after opening last year. It was a total nightmare. Every time the floc settled, I would vacuum it out. I was told to vacuum to waste so i would drain the pool below the skimmers in a matter of minutes. It took AGES to get the pool back. I think I'd rather empty the pool and refill then go that way again.

    That said, I was probably doing something wrong....eventually I will figure out this whole pool ownership thing!

    In my experience, if you use floc properly, it works great... Honestly, I don't understand running your pump for days to clear your pool. You waste a lot of energy and put a lot of strain on your filter/pump/etc - many times, you'll burn out your filter. Furthermore, as in this example, it takes many days and a lot of labor to clear your pool (who's got time for that?). Or, the other option, you 'properly floc' the pool, shut everything off, and then the very next day your water is clear. To me, it's a no braining. Done it for years and will continue to do so. That said, the people of this site have their reasons for not recommending this option so you can listen to them.

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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    As an alternative to flocs and clarifiers, you can add a little DE to your sand filter. Go look in Pool School, there is an article on how to do it and how much to add. You will need to keep a closer eye on your filter pressure and backwash when your filter is 25% above clean pressure. When you back wash, the DE gets flushed out too so you will need to recharge it again. Typically during a SLAM, all of the algae is killed within the first 48 hours or so (except for the stuff hiding in niches, ladders, etc) and what you are fighting with in the middle and latter SLAM stages is just slow filtering of the debris. Sand filters are very poor at filter fine algae debris so it takes time. Using some DE can speed up the process.
    Matt
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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    Quote Originally Posted by VikingPoolMan View Post
    In my experience, if you use floc properly, it works great... Honestly, I don't understand running your pump for days to clear your pool. You waste a lot of energy and put a lot of strain on your filter/pump/etc - many times, you'll burn out your filter. Furthermore, as in this example, it takes many days and a lot of labor to clear your pool (who's got time for that?). Or, the other option, you 'properly floc' the pool, shut everything off, and then the very next day your water is clear. To me, it's a no braining. Done it for years and will continue to do so. That said, the people of this site have their reasons for not recommending this option so you can listen to them.
    I guess you meant pump when you stated "burn out your filter" ???

    A filter isn't an electrical component that could burn out. But.....your pump shouldn't burn out either by running 24/7. At least not for the purposes of SLAM.....no harm in running it.

    What joyfulnoise suggested by adding DE to a sand filter is helpful nearing the end of SLAM......I can attest to this with my own sand filter.
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    Quote Originally Posted by AimeeH View Post
    I guess you meant pump when you stated "burn out your filter" ???

    A filter isn't an electrical component that could burn out. But.....your pump shouldn't burn out either by running 24/7. At least not for the purposes of SLAM.....no harm in running it.

    What joyfulnoise suggested by adding DE to a sand filter is helpful nearing the end of SLAM......I can attest to this with my own sand filter.
    I was using the term 'burnt out' to describe what can happen to some filters when you attempt to clear a VERY cloudy pool for days and days... it puts a lot of strain on cartridge filters, for example. Also, I think it waste energy/time. However, as others have pointed out, there are good reasons not to encourage flocing to everyone (I don't use it all the time myself either)... In this particular case, however, the pool owner has a sand filter and "can't even see the first step after days of running the filter" ... the man seem frustrated. If it's easy to vac to waste, then why the heck not give floc a try? That said, the people here have more experience helping people with pool problems than I do so just listen to them.

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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    ar.control.tech, seeing as how your thread took a little sideline discussion or two, I would offer a few suggestions you might find helpful:
    - Round-up your CYA to 60 and maintain the FC of "24". Make sure to do that consistently and not in large "dumps" of chlorine if you can help it. Of course if you're away all day for work or something you have no choice.
    - When was the last time you deep-cleaned your sand? If not this year, please consider the Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter page. After the deep clean, then add some DE as Matt indicated above.
    - You had a green swamp and started your SLAM about 6-7 days ago. This is normal. A green or heavily algae-filled pool can take a good 1-2 weeks to really clear-up. Consistency is FC maintenance is key.
    - Your comment about baking soda ... I think that was meant to say DE (to help clear water) as Matt suggested. Just wanted to make sure you didn't try to add any baking soda at this time. Bleach is your primary concern right now.
    - This statement concerns me:
    OCLT is around 10ppm, the water is clear and I have NO idea where the CC is.
    ---10 ppm? Was that a typo? Did you mean to say you only lose 1 ppm on the OCLT, or that you start your OCLT at an FC of 10? Something else?
    ---Water is clear now though? Just above in your intro you said you couldn't see past the first step, so we want to make sure what you see. Maybe post a pic of your pool for us?
    ---No idea of your CCs? That is very odd. How are you testing and with what test kit specifically?

    Some of the answers to these questions may prompt us to discover something missing in your routine that could help significantly.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    Quote Originally Posted by VikingPoolMan View Post
    I was using the term 'burnt out' to describe what can happen to some filters when you attempt to clear a VERY cloudy pool for days and days... it puts a lot of strain on cartridge filters, for example. Also, I think it waste energy/time. However, as others have pointed out, there are good reasons not to encourage flocing to everyone (I don't use it all the time myself either)... In this particular case, however, the pool owner has a sand filter and "can't even see the first step after days of running the filter" ... the man seem frustrated. If it's easy to vac to waste, then why the heck not give floc a try? That said, the people here have more experience helping people with pool problems than I do so just listen to them.
    If you clean the filters properly (regardless of type), there should be no issue. I have never heard the term 'burn out a filter' before.

    I've seen many green swamps cleared up here at TFP, with some taking weeks to complete (with pump & filter running 24/7) and not one report of a "burnt out filter".

    Dom
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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    Running your filtration continuously is not harmful in any way. It is not labour either. It does take time to clear the dead bleached out algae, and a bit of pool DE does help.

    There's a well written concise description here: Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter

    The payoff for the TFP SLAM (agree it's frustrating) is that after you truly kill off all the algae, it's a piece of cake to look after. And the water is crystal clear, unlike what you get from typical pool service and pool store guided approach. I won't bore you with all the reasons, but you're in it now, be patient, stick it out and you'll be very happy with your pool.

    It will be speeded up the most by maintaining at 24 ppm FC as often as you can. Morning, after work and evening minimum. If someone can put some chlorine in around mid-day it's faster. If someone is at home and can test, more often is that much faster. Brushing and finding algae hiding places (e.g. back of skimmer weir, light niches, under ladder steps, etc.) will all speed it up.

    Pat (Texas Splash) and other experts here will help you speed it up. Answer their questions and ask anything that comes to mind. Seriously, stick it out, you'll be amazed how much better your pool is. There's easily a 1000 threads here with your exact story. The overnight FC losses will drop each day and the clouds will part.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    ok, i stand corrected... slam away!

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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    I'm a disaster, this is my third attempt at replying. In short, ran the full test on a brand new K-2006 test kit. FC=12 (ran out of chlorine yesterday), CC=2.5, PH is 7.2, TA= 90, CH=130, CYA=90. I have bad scaling because my PH was WAAYYY high before hand.

    I understand the OCLT to be simply the amount of chlorine lost overnight, so i went to bed and the FC was 22 and the next morning it was FC 12. Therefore my OCLT is 10. Is that wrong?

    I haven't been testing all the way through because it seemed like it doesn't get me anything to do it all every time. I just changed the sand in the filter last month. Based on the smell, it was not in good shape. Mostly I was desperate for something to work with this pool.

    I'll give a look at the DE addition. I did that last year and it really helped.

    Viking, I appreciate your input. I'm going to give this SLAM a chance, cause I've got to know if it works. But if it isn't working in few weeks I might be in touch! Great to hear the other side of the coin, so to speak
    26k GALLONS, HAYWARD 1HP FILTER PUMP
    HAYWARD 300# SAND FILTER - NEW SAND AS OF 6/16
    VINYL LINER, DOLPHIN DX3S (HERBIE)

    7 YR OLD SON, ASKING FOR WATER: "I FEEL LIKE A DEHYDRATING CRAB"

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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    When you SLAM, it's important you stick with it and be consistent with the FC. You lost 10 ppm of FC on your last OCLT, and in reality, it was probably too early to even attempt the OCLT, but between that and your elevated CC level - SLAM! So things to keep in mind:
    - I would not add the DE yet. We normally reserve that option to help sand filters catch the finer algae residue towards the end of a SLAM. If you add DE too early, you'll just end-up clogging your filter too fast. So save the DE for last.
    - Maintain that FC level of 24. Do your best to keep it there constantly.
    - Don't worry about doing any other tests right now except for FC & CC. Save the other reagents until after the SLAM.
    - The scaling will have to wait. One thing at a time - algae first, other items after.
    - Test often, especially early in the SLAM to keep that FC at 24. Eventually that will slow-down, but stay with it.
    - Lastly, review the SLAM page once each day a a memory jogger for things to do.

    Stick with it, it will work.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    Quote Originally Posted by ar.control.tech View Post
    I'm a disaster, this is my third attempt at replying. In short, ran the full test on a brand new K-2006 test kit. FC=12 (ran out of chlorine yesterday), CC=2.5, PH is 7.2, TA= 90, CH=130, CYA=90. I have bad scaling because my PH was WAAYYY high before hand.

    I understand the OCLT to be simply the amount of chlorine lost overnight, so i went to bed and the FC was 22 and the next morning it was FC 12. Therefore my OCLT is 10. Is that wrong?

    I haven't been testing all the way through because it seemed like it doesn't get me anything to do it all every time. I just changed the sand in the filter last month. Based on the smell, it was not in good shape. Mostly I was desperate for something to work with this pool.

    I'll give a look at the DE addition. I did that last year and it really helped.

    Viking, I appreciate your input. I'm going to give this SLAM a chance, cause I've got to know if it works. But if it isn't working in few weeks I might be in touch! Great to hear the other side of the coin, so to speak
    How is your SLAM going?

    Dom
    Dom - TFP Guide
    Intex 18' X 48" Ultra Frame AGP 6700 gallons | Two Intex CS8110 SWG's | Hayward Pro Series 21" Sandfilter | Hayward 1.5HP Power Flo Matrix pump | Hayward Thru-wall Skimmer | Wanda the Whale | 72 sq ft of Sungrabber Solar Panels with Hayward GLC-2P-A | Taylor K2006 Test Kit, Sample Sizer & Speed Stir | Click Here To Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    Still going. Still milky. it feels like it's clearing up but I still can't see the second step. well i can see the steps outline. but nothing clear. I'm almost positive that it the scaling is a major factor. if i stick my arm in the pool and rub it off you can see waves of white come up.

    I'm pretty sure it's getting better. and it's much much farther along then the pool store got me!
    26k GALLONS, HAYWARD 1HP FILTER PUMP
    HAYWARD 300# SAND FILTER - NEW SAND AS OF 6/16
    VINYL LINER, DOLPHIN DX3S (HERBIE)

    7 YR OLD SON, ASKING FOR WATER: "I FEEL LIKE A DEHYDRATING CRAB"

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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    Improvement is good. Did you try adding a little DE to the sand as suggested? Curious to know.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    not yet. as you suggested, I though maybe it was too early. I think I'm going to start it this week.
    26k GALLONS, HAYWARD 1HP FILTER PUMP
    HAYWARD 300# SAND FILTER - NEW SAND AS OF 6/16
    VINYL LINER, DOLPHIN DX3S (HERBIE)

    7 YR OLD SON, ASKING FOR WATER: "I FEEL LIKE A DEHYDRATING CRAB"

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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    Quote Originally Posted by ar.control.tech View Post
    if i stick my arm in the pool and rub it off you can see waves of white come up.

    Are you not brushing the sides and bottom everyday?
    24,200 gal., IG vinyl, 18' x 36' rectangular, average depth 5'. K-2006C
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    Re: First SLAM but water milky

    yup, i am. but the brush doesn't provide enough friction to knock it off in one pass, or multiple passes. actually i got a nylon scrub brush and started in on it with that. stick isn't very long though.... "Herbie" is making his rounds across the bottom and I'm hoping he's knocking it down.

    Hey, Texas Splash, I hope that I didn't come across as snarky by repeating the "as you suggested" part. I realize that might have sounded, or read, poorly. I appreciate all the help! DE is on the way...
    26k GALLONS, HAYWARD 1HP FILTER PUMP
    HAYWARD 300# SAND FILTER - NEW SAND AS OF 6/16
    VINYL LINER, DOLPHIN DX3S (HERBIE)

    7 YR OLD SON, ASKING FOR WATER: "I FEEL LIKE A DEHYDRATING CRAB"

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