Helping a friend with her solar panels

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cooljul

0
Jun 15, 2015
136
Fort Pierce, FL
My best friend and her husband just bought a new home with an in ground pool and solar panels for heating. During the home inspection the inspector marked everything in good working order and they purchased the home. Fast forward 3 weeks and I come over for a swim. I ask about the solar heating and they say they haven't figured out how to turn it on. Also a pool light doesn't work, but that's an easy fix. I check out the equipment pad and find the pipes coming back (or going to?) the panels have been capped off, presumedly by the previous owners. Our knowledge of solar panels is Nil so just wanted to hear from solar panel owners what kind of issues could panels have that would make someone want to cap off the pipes to not use it? I don't imagine the panels are very old but there are very good pool records, I anticipate going over today and I can find them and post pics. Here are pics of the equipment and capped pipes.

Would also appreciate any insight on equipment, like why are there two pumps? Is one for the solar?


I can take more pics of anything requested today or tomorrow. Thanks all.







 
Looks like it has a solar bypass so would just need to turn it off if pool got too warm. Most solar valve have a hole in them to allow draining of system when s/d so probably a leak in the panels that was happening even though solar was off so they cut the pipe.
 
Where the two capped off lines are - that's the solar return line - I think there is supposed to be check valve in that void.

Have a look at this thread: Solar Check Valves
Especially post #4 which explains the need for the check valves and also the "leaky" diverter valve (the black one in your pics). I'd recommend a read of that entire thread too.

The black valve after the filter appears to have an electronic actuator - but I see no wires attached.
Can you also post a pic of any electrical control panels (closed and open)?

Also, a pic of the 3 valves and piping in front of the left pump (filter pump) - if possible??

Pump on right is dedicated to the spa jets - as noted by NeedsMoreSun

Oh - maybe contact the home inspector and verify if they checked the solar or not. And if those 2 lines were capped when it was inspected or not.
 
They were definitely capped when inspection was done as homeowners haven't done anything with the pool equipment. The inspector is coming back out to look at it and was quite shocked that he had missed that. I'm not sure what my friend and her husband can do about this situation since we are completely sure the previous homeowners knew the panels were not working (hence they capped it off) and did not reveal it during the sale. Also the inspector missed it, which is a pretty big thing if you ask me.

I'll try to get over there tomorrow and take more pictures.

The black valve is electronic I believe, the homeowners had tried to turn solar on without noticing the capped pipes and that black valve moved by itself. Well then obviously when water couldn't go through or return pressure on pump went up really high and a pipe burst. they had it replaced and that's when they discovered the capped pipes.

I'll check out the thread thanks Gene!
 
I would think the first thing to do is to see if they are leaking or non-functional (well, except for the capped lines/missing check valve). Take lots of pics to document current pipes and layout - then test if panels will hold water. Hopefully, someone better versed in solar panels will be along shortly to assist.

If it wasn't on the disclosure statement and the panels are leaking or broken, I think she can contact her realtor and go from there. Don't know if that will help, but may be worth a try.

Does the spa have a spillover into the pool (is spa higher than pool) or is spa and pool at same level? A couple pics here too please??

The suction side of the filter pump seems to read (from left to right):
V = vacuum - dedicated vacuum port??
Skim = skimmer
Dr... = pool main drain
S... = spa main drain

In the pics, suction is from the skimmer and pool main drain equally. The spa drain and vac ports are off. Water is returning to the pool and to the spa. Pretty typical setup - except for the solar mess.

Have you told them about TFP yet? Or are you waiting until after they settle in a bit?
 
We bought a new house a little over a year ago and looked at almost a dozen home inspectors online to pick one. At least in our area every single one had a disclaimer on the pool portion. Some wouldn't inspect it at all, some said it was a courtesy with no guarantee, and some charged a small amount and specified it was an electrical safety inspection only. All advised a pool inspection from a qualified installer. So, they may want to check whatever the contract with the inspector was. Him coming out to look is a good sign at least though :)

I'd certainly have them get in contact with their realtor though as it certainly should have been disclosed!!

LOL, last house I sold my realtor called that the buyer was threatening a lawsuit over disclosure. LOL, all over a claim none of the exterior through the wall holes were sealed (like where sump pump discharged, etc). Seems pretty minor to sue over some caulk. Best part is they were well sealed but with silicone and they assumed they weren't sealed because they could see light, lol. I never did get a "Thanks for the clarification", sorry, or anything back :(
 
The spa spills over into pool, I'll take some pics.

Definitely want to tell them about TFP but I have to tread lightly as hubby knows everything already so it will be strange that I tell him something new. LOL. They have an inline chlorinator full of pucks right now. I'll wait till they're out of town to take my test kit over, but if they ask me to come test I'll be over in a jiffy!

I did see that their pool light is a Sta-rite, can you replace a plain white light with a colored one?

- - - Updated - - -

Lol about the caulking! When I bought my house the only issue I had was when the water softener disappeared two weeks after I moved in. I called the realtor (she was awful I hated her) in a huff demanding to know where my softener was. She said oh it was a rental. I said I thought it was owned! But I looked back in my paperwork and did see it was a rental. Lol oops.

BFF did contact her realtor who has been super helpful. That's how inspector got called to come back out. I think he's coming a day this week so I'll report his findings. Don't know if anything will come of it, if it's not in the paperwork they'd have to sue them in court maybe ? I don't think my friend would be up for that, they may just have to figure out how much it would be to fix and move on.

How could I check if they leak if the pipes are capped off? See if they leak now anyway? Or did you mean something else? Thanks!!
 
Oh, another DH that know everything already.. LOL
Maybe you'll have to wait until after the puck chlorinator raises the CYA real high and the pool gets "chlorine lock" or some other ps inspired mystery ailment to introduce them to the TFP way. It still amazes me that some people will spend hundreds and hundredd of dollars at the ps chasing clear water but balk at spending $70 on a testkit to allow fixing the issue while saving money overall. :brickwall:

How could I check if they leak if the pipes are capped off? See if they leak now anyway? Or did you mean something else?
Click to expand...

I have no idea how to check - hence my hope one of our solar gurus stops by to weigh in. A pic of the panels on the roof may help identify a course of action for them. The link I provided should give at least give some insight to you into how the solar is supposed to work.

While I would lean toward an issue with the actual panels, it could have been something as simple as a bad check valve (that missing one) or an issue with the solar valve (black with actuator). That and a previous owner who wasn't going to spend anymore on the pool just to sell the house.
 

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Can you provide some pics of panels, the solar and pool control systerm, and a few pics of the black valve (or confirm it has wires going to the control panel? That will help us understand how it was designed and what is needed to get it operating again.

as an FYI, solar panels do get brittle over time and begin leaking. I have about 10 years on our vortex panels and I have a few pinhole leaks this year when opening the pool. Depending on the age and condition, you may be able to find someone to plastic weld them and patch the leaks as an alternative to replacement (or plug the leaking tubes if a fafco design).
 
cooljul said:
They were definitely capped when inspection was done as homeowners haven't done anything with the pool equipment. The inspector is coming back out to look at it and was quite shocked that he had missed that. I'm not sure what my friend and her husband can do about this situation since we are completely sure the previous homeowners knew the panels were not working (hence they capped it off) and did not reveal it during the sale. Also the inspector missed it, which is a pretty big thing if you ask me.

I'll try to get over there tomorrow and take more pictures.

The black valve is electronic I believe, the homeowners had tried to turn solar on without noticing the capped pipes and that black valve moved by itself. Well then obviously when water couldn't go through or return pressure on pump went up really high and a pipe burst. they had it replaced and that's when they discovered the capped pipes.

I'll check out the thread thanks Gene!
Click to expand...

Depends how your friend wants to play this....


The Home Inspector has some legal liability for telling them the solar worked fine, when in fact it was OBVIOUSLY non-functional and therefore cannot be 'inspected'.

First thing for me would be a written estimate to fix the solar. So an 'expert' to connect it, test it, then determine what is wrong and give you firm, written repair costs.

THEN figure out who pays.

Allowing the inspector to mess with it now, allowing partial fixes, etc, you reduce the odds of a successful claim against the inspector or their insurance. The sooner you document the 'as received' system conditions the better you will be.

IMO the inspector isnt coming out for professional curiosity or because he feels bad....

(well maybe he feels bad he could lose a $4000 claim)
 
Adam. said:
Depends how your friend wants to play this....


The Home Inspector has some legal liability for telling them the solar worked fine, when in fact it was OBVIOUSLY non-functional and therefore cannot be 'inspected'.

First thing for me would be a written estimate to fix the solar. So an 'expert' to connect it, test it, then determine what is wrong and give you firm, written repair costs.

THEN figure out who pays.

Allowing the inspector to mess with it now, allowing partial fixes, etc, you reduce the odds of a successful claim against the inspector or their insurance. The sooner you document the 'as received' system conditions the better you will be.

IMO the inspector isnt coming out for professional curiosity or because he feels bad....

(well maybe he feels bad he could lose a $4000 claim)
Click to expand...

that's great advice! You can tell by the discoloration on the piping and cap that it has been that way for sometime. If you get an estimate, it would be great to have them note on the repair estimate their opinion as to how long it has been sitting in the current condition (if they will do that).

There is Some risk that the inspector is going to try and say it was modified after he inspected it so he can shift liability. To be honest even a novice inspector should have seen that as a huge red flag! And unless their inspection has specific language limiting liability (most do), it would be pretty hard to defend that he actually inspected it and passed it.
 
Rossterman said:
that's great advice! You can tell by the discoloration on the piping and cap that it has been that way for sometime. If you get an estimate, it would be great to have them note on the repair estimate their opinion as to how long it has been sitting in the current condition (if they will do that).

There is Some risk that the inspector is going to try and say it was modified after he inspected it so he can shift liability. To be honest even a novice inspector should have seen that as a huge red flag! And unless their inspection has specific language limiting liability (most do), it would be pretty hard to defend that he actually inspected it and passed it.
Click to expand...

Many inspection reports will includes pictures- if he included a picture where you can, no matter how minimally, see the caps you have proof...
 




Don't mind the toes! Lol


Power connections?



"I have a pool service they take care of everything"

so why haven't they cleaned your cartridge?


Timer



I think they should call these people, they're probably the installers?


Pics of panels ... I think the glass one is for a solar hot water heater that works fine?


I HATE PHOTOBUCKET
 
If the panels are indeed 12 years old I'm guessing they are just wore out and need to be replaced. We're in south Florida so sun is brutal all year.

I am curious to know how long they've been sitting like that unused.
Also would like to know how much it costs to replace the panels?

I think the homeowners should have definitely disclosed the panels were not working... That's like not having a functioning AC or refrigerator IMO.
 
Thanks for the pics!

Still waiting for one of our solar gurus to weigh in on the overall system and possibly how to test the system safely give the current capped pipes.

Other than that, I guess you wait to see what the home inspector says and proceed from there. You said a pipe burst - do you know exactly where?
 

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