Spa draining into pool when equipment is off

[JoelFitz]

Easiest way to locate the water loss point is to do a dye test. Your local pool supply store may have a dye test kit but if they don't pick up a bottle of phenol #5 (pH red indicator). Fill the spa all the way and get in. Let the water settle down as it's very important that both you and the water are as still as possible. Take the dye and squeeze beside every avenue for loss, keep pressure on the bottle (if using phenol) to not allow water to enter and dilute. The dye will go into the orifice that is causing your issue. Check everything below the bench as it can be assumed due to the level your issue is below where the water is sitting in your picture. Once you find the source let us know and we should be able to give you some pointers as to what to do next.


Secondly it appears you're returning 90% of the return to a valve marked cleaning system. What cleaning system do you have? does it return to the spa? If so that line should have a check valve as well although I don't see any pop-ups in the picture. I do however notice 2 calcium lines on the tile at the spillover pointing to something adding a lot of water to the spa, more than would be from the "common line" in my opinion based on the valve positions.

GL!

 

[ajknoll23]

Hey guys,

So I talked to the pool guy that came out a week ago to clean my spa filter and he just told me that when he opened up all of the Jandy valves to change the o rings, he saw the water draining back from the spa through that new check valve. he said for whatever reason, that check valve is not doing what it is supposed to do and that is the reason it is draining back.

I didn't like the guy who installed the check valve because he quoted me $30 + $150 in labor to change 3 freaking o rings. The guy who said what I wrote above charged me $90 total to clean spa filter and change the o-rings. Really honest guy.

 

[ajknoll23]

can you give me a more broad shot of the pool? I am looking for:

How many skimmers
How many returns
How many drains.

Basically I am trying to map all routes that water can enter and leave both the pool and spa. And then try and figure out where the pool and spa are connected (plumbing-wise). Because it isn't at the equipment pad from what I see!

Also where is the equipment in relation to the layout of the pool?

Here are some more pictures. I didn't get to play with the valves last night as I wanted to bc Sears shipped us some damaged goods and was on the phone all night with them.

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[ajknoll23]

There is 1 skimmer in each the spa and pool

There are 2 drains in the pool, 1 in spa

There are 4 returns in the pool

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[mikemass]

Thanks for posting those. Spa is higher that I imagined. New questions...

When the water level settles in the spa with the equipment off, would you say the level equalizes with the pool water's height?

Do you have to have both pumps running for the spa to refill? If you run one without the other will it refill and if so, which one? (lets call it left and right when facing the wall)

 

[ajknoll23]

Thanks for posting those. Spa is higher that I imagined. New questions...

When the water level settles in the spa with the equipment off, would you say the level equalizes with the pool water's height?

Do you have to have both pumps running for the spa to refill? If you run one without the other will it refill and if so, which one? (lets call it left and right when facing the wall)

It does not settle to water level of pool. It stays over the sitting part of the spa so I'd say that is a couple inches higher than the pool water level.

I have not tried running just the pool equipment. So can't answer that honestly. I will try that tonight.

There is 1 skimmer in each the spa and pool

There are 2 drains in the pool, 1 in spa

There are 4 returns in the pool

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Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[ajknoll23]

I think the return lines are plumbed together underground. The reason they have 2 separate pumps/filters is so they could blow out lines to pool in winter and keep spa up and running? Just a theory.

For that the be the case the three way on the "spa Equipment" side would have to be turned to shut off what is labeled "returns". I can't read what the other label say. OP? Can you help me out with that. it's like %$&NAPLES?

- - - Updated - - -



Take you time. I tend to not be around much at night on the computer. But I will keep looking for updates. Just try and provide as much info as you can.

That one label that you couldn't figure out says "Therapies"

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[mikemass]

We'll get it figured out. I just need to help you when you are in front of the equipment. It's not a hard task, just a matter of understanding which valve works what.

 

[jblizzle]

Not dropping to pool level or the level of some plumbing could point to a leak and not necessarily a connection with the pool ....

 

[ajknoll23]

I'm not convinced that the check valve is indeed on the spa jets return. Can you turn on the system and start turning some of those 3 way valves so we can see what indeed goes to what? Namely the the 3 way at the "new" check valve & "water feature". That's the one I am really curious about.

20160701_064910.mp4 - Google Drive

Here is a video demonstrating the "water feature" 3 way valve.

 

[ajknoll23]

Here is one additional picture of equipment that is located beside all of the spa equipment. When facing the wall, it is on the very left side beside the spa heater.

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[mikemass]

ahah. So that's what the "water feature" is. Wonder why the one to the left of the dam wall was not trickling. By the way? did you get my PM from earlier today?

JBliz - That's my latest concern, but I am staying positive that's not the case yet. I think we would have seen significant overall water loss if it was an external leak. It really just appears the spa water is winding up in the pool when system gets shut down.

 

[ajknoll23]

Not dropping to pool level or the level of some plumbing could point to a leak and not necessarily a connection with the pool ....

ahah. So that's what the "water feature" is. Wonder why the one to the left of the dam wall was not trickling. By the way? did you get my PM from earlier today?

JBliz - That's my latest concern, but I am staying positive that's not the case yet. I think we would have seen significant overall water loss if it was an external leak. It really just appears the spa water is winding up in the pool when system gets shut down.

Yeah, the spa has been draining and re-filling for about 2 weeks now, each day now and there hasnt been any water level loss.

 

[jblizzle]

Are you sure you do not have an autofill in the pool that might be adding water that you didn't realize?

 

[mikemass]

Yeah, the spa has been draining and re-filling for about 2 weeks now, each day now and there hasnt been any water level loss.

ajknoll23 - Hope you had a good holiday weekend. Wondering how you are making out with the drain/refill of spa since we talked Saturday morning? You've had a few on/off cycles since then. Working better?

 

[ajknoll23]

ajknoll23 - Hope you had a good holiday weekend. Wondering how you are making out with the drain/refill of spa since we talked Saturday morning? You've had a few on/off cycles since then. Working better?

Hey Mike,
It's still draining into the pool but since you helped me over video chat figure out how my system actually works and that it is a defective check valve I'm still in the process of getting that replaced.

When I had the cleaning system at 730, the returns at 6 and the water feature at 9 (off), it was drained this morning. Filling it back up as I write this so it's not sitting in the 110* heat empty today.

I'll be replacing that check valve ASAP this week.

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[mikemass]

Glad I was able to help. Just to clarify for people reading this..... When I had you keep the "water feature" valve in the 3 o'clock position (i.e. Spa jets completely closed), the spa did not drain out at all. Indicating water is finding it's way back to the pool via the spa jets and through the faulty check valve. Unfortunately this is not a permanent option as the Spa will never get recirculated keeping it in this position. The purpose was just to test.

90% of the battle in trouble shooting this stuff is knowing how these valves work. It's a little intimidating at first, but once you understand how the water is flowing depending on the position of the valve, things make much more sense.

It's unfortunate that the brand new check valve is bad, but at least we now know where the issue lies. Beautiful pool you have there. It was nice talking to you. Reach out anytime. Glad to answer any questions, especially now that I really have an understanding of your plumbing system.

 

[ajknoll23]

Am going to bump this to the top one more time to see if some more ideas pop up.

As Mike said above, we closed the "water feature" valve after filling up the spa and the spa did not drain at all. Which meant that the water is SOMEHOW finding its way back to the pool via the jets and through the check valve.

I bought new guts for the check valve, set the valves to advised positions and the spa still drained after the pool equipment shut off in approximately an hour.

I will be doing a red dye test tonight. I'll be filling up the spa, drop a few drops by spa jets and if it gets sucked in, go back to the check valve and try to see it pass through the check valve itself.

Another theory is that there is something wrong with the housing the check valve sits in.

 

[mikemass]

Another theory is that there is something wrong with the housing the check valve sits in.

This is certainly possible. Perhaps there is something along the inside that is holding up the flap from fully closing. While I know this is a frustrating thing to deal with, there really is no harm in the Spa partially draining back into the pool every day. (ajknoll23 runs his equipment during the night time hours).

If you continue to keep those Jandy valves adjusted to where I suggested is their ideal position, you will get plenty of recirculation every night in both the Spa and the Pool.

Believe me this is the pot calling the kettle black. Even though it's causing no harm, it would drive me bonkers too.

 

[ajknoll23]

This is certainly possible. Perhaps there is something along the inside that is holding up the flap from fully closing. While I know this is a frustrating thing to deal with, there really is no harm in the Spa partially draining back into the pool every day. (ajknoll23 runs his equipment during the night time hours).

If you continue to keep those Jandy valves adjusted to where I suggested is their ideal position, you will get plenty of recirculation every night in both the Spa and the Pool.

Believe me this is the pot calling the kettle black. Even though it's causing no harm, it would drive me bonkers too.

Would I be correct in saying that it's not good for the spa to sit predominantly empty in the 110* heat though?

Right now, I am waking up, filling the spa, setting valves manually so it doesn't drain during the day, when I get home, I set the valves to where you suggested, so the the cleaning system and circulation happens, and then my equipment runs from 7pm to 5am.