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Thread: So frustrated...please advise!

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    Wink So frustrated...please advise!

    About a week ago my pool went from sparkling clear blue to cloudy blue and eventually poison green swamp water. After much consternation I determined that unattended PH and high CYA were my culprits. On Sunday I released approximately 2/5 of my water from my 20' above ground and refilled. I also changed the sand in my filter, and dumped 4# of Power Powder Plus in to superchlorinate. My pool went from poison green to a lighter green but still super cloudy. I have been using the Total Poolcare DPD test kit from a well known chain store, as I figured it was more accurate than the ole 6 way test strips. My most recent test this afternoon shows CYA at 40, PH at 7.5, FC >5 (5 is max on this block) TC >5. I can't accurately calculate CC because I don't know what the exact ppm is. I have ordered the TF-100 kit and am waiting for it. Can anyone tell me if this kit's block reads higher than 5ppm? Long story short, because my pool is still green and cloudy I SLAM'd it this evening with 123oz of 12.5% LC. I realize I need to be patient but it's been 4 hrs of circulation and I am seeing NO improvement. I brushed walls and bottom as best as I could, given I can't see them clearly. What else do I need to do? I'm sure I've forgotten some details here so fire away- maybe it will jog a memory. Thanks for the help- I hate to think I would have to do a complete drain and refill.
    Kristi S.
    You'd think I'd be better at this by now...

    10,000 gal 20' above-ground Chois Pool
    Pentair Sand Dollar filter and 1 HP Pentair Dynamo pump
    TF100 test kit with Speedstir

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Yes, the TF-100 contains the FAS/DPD chlorine test that measures up to 50 ppm.

    Are you following this process for the SLAM.
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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Yes, the TF-100 contains the FAS/DPD chlorine test that measures up to 50 ppm.

    Are you following this process for the SLAM.
    Yes I am following this process. Right now it's very difficult though because of the limitations on my PH block. I don't know if I am hitting the proper ppm for chlorine with its limitations. My new kit will be here Friday. Should I just keep testing CYA until then and SLAM-ing for a "perceived" level? I don't want to let it go and lose ground, but all I know for sure at this point is that I am maintaining above 5ppm. Thanks for your help.
    Kristi S.
    You'd think I'd be better at this by now...

    10,000 gal 20' above-ground Chois Pool
    Pentair Sand Dollar filter and 1 HP Pentair Dynamo pump
    TF100 test kit with Speedstir

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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    I wish, as you see without the FAS-DPD you just can't SLAM without knowing exactly what FC you are at.. you can pour 1/2 gallon of 10% in a day and brush to stay ahead and not let it get any worse
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Listen to the good advice above kls1973....get your good kit in and we'll help you get it clear. I have a TON of family just up the road from you in Winchester......small world.
    Dave S.
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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboycasey View Post
    I wish, as you see without the FAS-DPD you just can't SLAM without knowing exactly what FC you are at.. you can pour 1/2 gallon of 10% in a day and brush to stay ahead and not let it get any worse
    Thanks for the advice!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh View Post
    Listen to the good advice above kls1973....get your good kit in and we'll help you get it clear. I have a TON of family just up the road from you in Winchester......small world.
    Dave I will do so. I hate people who aske for advice and then do what they want. Why did you even ask? Yes NE Kansas has been an inferno for the past couple weeks. We cut down a tree last winter that used to mostly shade the pool because it wouldn't get over 72* In the hottest part of summer. Don't have that issue now! So hot the algae loves to bloom there...smh! My TF-100 kit is supposed to be here tomorrow. Can't wait! I need clear water again, lol. 'Bout to get in it green! Can't be any worse than the lake.
    Kristi S.
    You'd think I'd be better at this by now...

    10,000 gal 20' above-ground Chois Pool
    Pentair Sand Dollar filter and 1 HP Pentair Dynamo pump
    TF100 test kit with Speedstir

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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Ok...so here is the latest... Pool is still green although it seems to be getting lighter. Main thing is it is still cloudy. I have brushed and or vacuumed every evening for the last 5 days. After testing with the TF-100 kit I have the following readings:
    PH 7.5
    FC 13
    CC .5
    CYA 40
    TA 130

    SLAM'd with 56oz of liquid chlorine at 12.5%

    4 hrs later took a night reading:

    PH 7.8
    FC 18
    CC .5
    CYA 40
    TA 110

    This morning's reading:

    PH 7.8
    FC 19
    CC <.5
    CYA 50
    TA 110

    it is raining cats and dogs here today, and mostly all weekend. Pool is still cycling 24/7. Do I just keep slam-ing to maintain 19 ppm and it will eventually clear up?
    Kristi S.
    You'd think I'd be better at this by now...

    10,000 gal 20' above-ground Chois Pool
    Pentair Sand Dollar filter and 1 HP Pentair Dynamo pump
    TF100 test kit with Speedstir

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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Keep it at 16, testing as regularly as you can. (The less it falls below the target FC, the better.) The PH test is unreliable above an FC of 10, so right now you just need to test FC. (Unless you add/lose water, or notice a problem and need to test CYA.) when it clears up and you are not losing much FC, you can perform the OCLT and go from there.
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Actually, 16ppm is your shock level for CYA 40 and 20 is for CYA 50. You have listed both, so I'm not sure where you are. The more you can keep it there or just a little above the better. If over the weekend you can test and adjust back to 16 every hour or two that would be great.

    Brush the pool once a day.
    TFP Moderator 39 X 18 23,000(ish) freeform gunite; built 2007ish; Pentair Triton II TR100 600lb Sand filter; 2 HP Pentair pump with 2.2 HP AO Smith single speed motor; 2 skimmers, 1 main drain, 4 returns w/waterfall, Stenner 45MHP2 3GPD running@ 60% - 15 gal Tank; heated by the sun CYA 200+ when I started - 50 now. Dolphin Supreme M5 Pool Cleaner. Hot Springs SX Spa, 285 gallon

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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Quote Originally Posted by PAGirl View Post
    Keep it at 16, testing as regularly as you can. (The less it falls below the target FC, the better.) The PH test is unreliable above an FC of 10, so right now you just need to test FC. (Unless you add/lose water, or notice a problem and need to test CYA.) when it clears up and you are not losing much FC, you can perform the OCLT and go from there.
    I performed OCLT last night and actually gained 1 ppm on FC. It doesn't seem that I am losing chlorine now, so I planned to keep testing FC about every 2 hrs to test and adjust if necessary. I won't bother with the PH since you say it is unreliable right now. Thanks for the advice.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tim5055 View Post
    Actually, 16ppm is your shock level for CYA 40 and 20 is for CYA 50. You have listed both, so I'm not sure where you are. The more you can keep it there or just a little above the better. If over the weekend you can test and adjust back to 16 every hour or two that would be great.

    Brush the pool once a day.
    I SLAM'd for 40 since that was my reading before I added the LC. So target was 16. I reached that but my CYA increased overnight to 50, and I have not added anything with CYA included so not sure why it increased? I figure if I tried to keep it in between 16-20 I'd be safe. What are your thoughts? Thanks for the input!
    Kristi S.
    You'd think I'd be better at this by now...

    10,000 gal 20' above-ground Chois Pool
    Pentair Sand Dollar filter and 1 HP Pentair Dynamo pump
    TF100 test kit with Speedstir

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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    if you got 50 for your CYA I would stay with FC20, it will help.. I know it seems like a long time but my pool was clear and kept my FC at 32 for a 7 days to get that sparkle back
    Pool: Intex 16x32 15000 gal, 2 speed 340042, Pentair CC320 Filter, CircuPool SJ45 Salt System, Intermatic PE653RC; Hot Tub: 650 Gal SWG Megachlor
    links: pool school * Recommended-Levels * SLAM * CYA chart * Test kits * How To Post Pictures * Poolmath * OCLT ** Support your website if we helped you :) **

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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Quote Originally Posted by cowboycasey View Post
    if you got 50 for your CYA I would stay with FC20, it will help.. I know it seems like a long time but my pool was clear and kept my FC at 32 for a 7 days to get that sparkle back
    Yes...patience is not my strong suit- more of an instant gratification kinda gal, lol! Thanks for the input!
    Kristi S.
    You'd think I'd be better at this by now...

    10,000 gal 20' above-ground Chois Pool
    Pentair Sand Dollar filter and 1 HP Pentair Dynamo pump
    TF100 test kit with Speedstir

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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    So my next question: if 16ppm is good for 40 CYA is 20ppm better? I am maintaining 18, just wondered if there was any harm in running it up to 20? Will it help the algae to clear faster?
    Kristi S.
    You'd think I'd be better at this by now...

    10,000 gal 20' above-ground Chois Pool
    Pentair Sand Dollar filter and 1 HP Pentair Dynamo pump
    TF100 test kit with Speedstir

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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Going higher than your target won't necessarily make things go faster. The side effect might be faster bleaching of your liner.
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Also chlorine decays on a percentage basis. It doesn't oxidize 1 ppm at a time, it oxidizes a percentage at a time. I can't remember the percentage, maybe 20 or 30%. So the higher the PPM the more PPM you lose at a time.
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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Also chlorine decays on a percentage basis. It doesn't oxidize 1 ppm at a time, it oxidizes a percentage at a time. I can't remember the percentage, maybe 20 or 30%. So the higher the PPM the more PPM you lose at a time.
    If this is the case, can you explain the effectiveness of the OCLT? Wouldn't 1ppm be subjective? I mean 1 ppm could be any percentage of chlorine loss based on what your FC was at the start. Yet the test specifically reads "if your FC level remained the same, or went down by 1.0 or less, the water is clean". I'm not trying to be contrary here, I'm really just trying to wrap my head around pool chemistry and make this d@mn pool clean and sparkling again.
    Kristi S.
    You'd think I'd be better at this by now...

    10,000 gal 20' above-ground Chois Pool
    Pentair Sand Dollar filter and 1 HP Pentair Dynamo pump
    TF100 test kit with Speedstir

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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Quote Originally Posted by kls1973 View Post
    If this is the case, can you explain the effectiveness of the OCLT? Wouldn't 1ppm be subjective? I mean 1 ppm could be any percentage of chlorine loss based on what your FC was at the start. Yet the test specifically reads "if your FC level remained the same, or went down by 1.0 or less, the water is clean". I'm not trying to be contrary here, I'm really just trying to wrap my head around pool chemistry and make this d@mn pool clean and sparkling again.
    Two things consume chlorine. Sunlight and organics that consume the chlorine as it is killing them. The idea behind the OCLT is to rule out sunlight. Losing less than 1ppm overnight is simply negligible at any level really since sunlight wasn't there to consume it. It's a great way to determine if you still have algae eating up your chlorine.
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
    http://tftestkits.net/splash-page.html

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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Quote Originally Posted by AimeeH View Post
    Two things consume chlorine. Sunlight and organics that consume the chlorine as it is killing them. The idea behind the OCLT is to rule out sunlight. Losing less than 1ppm overnight is simply negligible at any level really since sunlight wasn't there to consume it. It's a great way to determine if you still have algae eating up your chlorine.
    So theoretically, since my OCLT last night indicated a gain in FC, one would think that I had no algae eating up my chlorine. However my pool is still green and cloudy, so we know that assumption to be inaccurate. The flip side to this is that during the day today, which I might mention has had NO sunlight, we are 100% cloud cover and rain, I have experienced chlorine loss so clearly there are still organics consuming it. I will continue to muddle on, testing every couple hrs and keeping the FC at SLAM level, I'm just hopeful there is a rapidly approaching light at the end of this tunnel. I'm 4 days into this process with little noticeable improvement. It's rather disheartening!
    Kristi S.
    You'd think I'd be better at this by now...

    10,000 gal 20' above-ground Chois Pool
    Pentair Sand Dollar filter and 1 HP Pentair Dynamo pump
    TF100 test kit with Speedstir

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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Honestly, a gain in FC overnight would indicate testing error or not letting the pump to mix a chlorine addition long enough before testing for initial test. Chlorine can't increase in a pool without adding it. An SWG running could add it but there really isn't any other explanation.
    18*36*23 true "L" vinyl IG 29,000 gallons. SWG. TF-100 test kit.
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: So frustrated...please advise!

    Agreed, if FC went up that would invalidate the test. Even when it is cloudy there are still UV rays present. Same as you can still sunburn when it is cloudy. That is also why there are three criteria to end the SLAM process, SLAM
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