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Thread: SWG Runtime Question

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    SWG Runtime Question

    hello,

    So are you saying I should run my swg @ 100% for a day, check my chemistry and the next day and then decide how many hours to run @ 60% from 6am until noon- 1pm 100% then back to 80% after 2-3 pm? This chemistry thing is so confusing. I am not a chemist and would prefer not to be.

    I am just trying to use the Water Balance for SWGs process to keep my levels correct. I see the chemistry I should shot for but i just need the sequence in which to add the chemicals. It seems to me first get FC to 4 -6, second, CYA to 70. adding Clorox is the only way I believe I can get FC to 4 -6 as running the SWG @ 100% for 12 hours a day may cause early replacement.

    Thanks,

    Bill

    -------

    Updated:

    Okay, thank you. I am not sure what to do with this pool it receives sun now 12 hours a day. I just got the chemistry where I want it but the pH seems to rise a little everyday.

    Here is yesterdays chem:

    FC 3
    TC 3
    CYA 42
    PH 7.6
    TA 80
    CH not tested i guess this is Calcium Hardness which i do not test as liner is vinyl.

    I haven't tested yet today as I am looking for an answer on what sequence to I initiate the Water Balance for SWGs process. I guess I'll test the chemistry make the needed changes and wait for a response

    Thanks,

    Bill
    Last edited by JVTrain; 06-27-2016 at 10:23 AM. Reason: added details from PM for continuity
    17,100 gal, AG ,vinyl, sand Hayward DreamLine, pump Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5 HP single speed, august 2015 install, water test kit Taylor K-2005, Pentair IC20 SWG, water from community well.

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    Mod Squad JVTrain's Avatar
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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    Your SWG would be helped out if you increased your CYA level. In the south, you get more intense sun and if you're getting it for 12 hours, you should have your CYA level at 70 ppm. This will protect your chlorine more from UV light and allow your SWG to keep up. See the Chlorine/CYA chart in my signature for your target levels at this higher CYA.

    Another layer to your issue is that the SWG cell you have is undersized for your pool. Yes, the IC20 is marketed for pools up to 20K gallons. However, this means you'll have to run your pump nearly all the time to keep up. Your pool would be better served with an IC40. The general recommendation here at TFP is to oversize your salt cell for twice your pool volume so that you don't have to run the pump as long to run the SWG as long.

    That aside, you may have to run for longer periods because of the size of your salt cell. Increasing your CYA may help alleviate that a bit, to better protect your chlorine.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    Hey there Bill- You can bring your CYA up higher by putting the granules in to a sock and hanging it over the edge of the pool in front of a return.

    Then as soon as you stand up from that task, go ahead and bring your chlorine up to the desired level using bleach. See this link--> FC/CYA Chart

    Do you have the FAS-DPD test for chlorine (which would make your K-2005 test kit equivalent to the K-2006 we prefer)?

    As for starting up the SWG, there is no hard and fast rule as to how to run it. I like to run my filter longer each day than really needed (keeps the top skimmed of tree debris which I'm having a lot of this year) so I keep my SWG on 20%, which means it runs 12 minutes each hour. You can run it shorter for higher % or longer for lower %, your call. Only by testing daily will you be able to determine your ideal run time.
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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    Quote Originally Posted by JVTrain View Post
    Your SWG would be helped out if you increased your CYA level. In the south, you get more intense sun and if you're getting it for 12 hours, you should have your CYA level at 70 ppm. This will protect your chlorine more from UV light and allow your SWG to keep up. See the Chlorine/CYA chart in my signature for your target levels at this higher CYA.

    Another layer to your issue is that the SWG cell you have is undersized for your pool. Yes, the IC20 is marketed for pools up to 20K gallons. However, this means you'll have to run your pump nearly all the time to keep up. Your pool would be better served with an IC40. The general recommendation here at TFP is to oversize your salt cell for twice your pool volume so that you don't have to run the pump as long to run the SWG as long.

    That aside, you may have to run for longer periods because of the size of your salt cell. Increasing your CYA may help alleviate that a bit, to better protect your chlorine.
    Todays chemistry:

    FC 4
    TC 4
    CYA 40
    PH 8
    TA 80

    thanks for all the information.

    So I am going to try to bring my levels up to the Water Balance for SWGs process. Should I add MA wait 24 hours and then add CYA. I know MA lowers CYA. PoolMath advises 21oz MA and 91oz stabilizer.

    Also is it better to run pump from midnight to 1pm or does it really matter. I have read that chlorine does more work during the night.

    Currently our pool is very lightly used. Mostly the wife, occasionally me, couple times a week. sometimes the neighbors are over.

    Thanks.
    17,100 gal, AG ,vinyl, sand Hayward DreamLine, pump Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5 HP single speed, august 2015 install, water test kit Taylor K-2005, Pentair IC20 SWG, water from community well.

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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    I think there is an issue with your total Chl being the same as your free chlorine. Your total needs to be 0 or less then .5. this could be a reason you are not able to keep Chlorine in the pool. There are people here that are much better at explaininig this, but you'll need to get it to shock level and keep it there for several hours if that is really the issue....
    38,000 gallon vinyl liner, True "L", Sand Filter, Hayward Heater, Diving Board

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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    Hello,

    The forumula I use is:

    TC=FC+CC

    CC=FC-TC should be zero

    so FC=4
    CC=0
    so
    TC=4

    I'm not that good at math but i use the formula in my K-2005 kit.
    17,100 gal, AG ,vinyl, sand Hayward DreamLine, pump Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5 HP single speed, august 2015 install, water test kit Taylor K-2005, Pentair IC20 SWG, water from community well.

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeRJGR View Post
    I think there is an issue with your total Chl being the same as your free chlorine. Your total needs to be 0 or less then .5. this could be a reason you are not able to keep Chlorine in the pool. There are people here that are much better at explaininig this, but you'll need to get it to shock level and keep it there for several hours if that is really the issue....
    No, having the total chlorine the same as the free chlorine just means that there are no combined chloramines (aka "cooties") in the water. That's a good thing!
    The formula is: FC + CC = TC
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    Quote Originally Posted by YippeeSkippy View Post
    No, having the total chlorine the same as the free chlorine just means that there are no combined chloramines (aka "cooties") in the water. That's a good thing!
    The formula is: FC + CC = TC
    Today'schemistry:

    FC 4
    TC 4
    CYA 40
    PH 8
    TA 80

    thanks for all the information.

    So I am going to try to bring my levels up to the Water Balance for SWGs process today. Should I add MA wait 24 hours and then add CYA. I know MA lowers CYA. PoolMath advises 21oz MA and 91oz stabilizer.

    Also is it better to run pump from midnight to 1pm or does it really matter. I have read that chlorine does more work during the night.

    Currently our pool is very lightly used. Mostly the wife, occasionally me, couple times a week. sometimes the neighbors are over.

    Thanks.
    17,100 gal, AG ,vinyl, sand Hayward DreamLine, pump Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5 HP single speed, august 2015 install, water test kit Taylor K-2005, Pentair IC20 SWG, water from community well.

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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    You can add muriatic acid and stabilizer at the same time. CYA will take a little while to dissolve. Definitely get the stabilizer 70-80 as that will help protect your FC. Your pH will always creep up with a SWG, just the nature of SWG. The amount your pH will increase also depends on aeration from water features, waterfalls, splashing, etc.

    When to run your filter pump is a personal decision. I run mine during the day as I like my FC constant vs having a high amount in the morning and letting it drift down from UV and replacing it during the night with the SWG. Also, kids swim in my pool often during the day, so I usually have to turn on my filter pump anyway when they're in the pool, so saves me one step. Some people run their filter pump at night cuz their electricity rates are much lower off peak. Really, up to you.
    17k IG plaster pool+ spa, Stonescape mini-pebble midnight blue, marble coping, Trex and porcelain tile decking, Pentair Intelliflo VSP x 3 (filter, laminars and spa jets), Pentair IC40, Pentair MasterTemp 400, Pentair Quad DE 100, Pentair CC 150 for laminars, Intellibrite 5G LEDs, MagicStream Laminars x 3, Intellitouch i9+3 automation with Screenlogic2, IntellipH, Dolphin s300i, TFTest kit, SpeedStir

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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocgasman View Post
    You can add muriatic acid and stabilizer at the same time. CYA will take a little while to dissolve. Definitely get the stabilizer 70-80 as that will help protect your FC. Your pH will always creep up with a SWG, just the nature of SWG. The amount your pH will increase also depends on aeration from water features, waterfalls, splashing, etc.

    When to run your filter pump is a personal decision. I run mine during the day as I like my FC constant vs having a high amount in the morning and letting it drift down from UV and replacing it during the night with the SWG. Also, kids swim in my pool often during the day, so I usually have to turn on my filter pump anyway when they're in the pool, so saves me one step. Some people run their filter pump at night cuz their electricity rates are much lower off peak. Really, up to you.
    Okay. Thanks.

    The CYA container states that it can be added directly to the skimmer. it also states the the filter pressure may increase and to also back flush before adding. I do not like wasting water.

    Someone else said to put the CYA in a sock and hang in the pool (I have to add 5 lbs). Is there anyone that has hung socks and let it dissolve?
    17,100 gal, AG ,vinyl, sand Hayward DreamLine, pump Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5 HP single speed, august 2015 install, water test kit Taylor K-2005, Pentair IC20 SWG, water from community well.

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    Absolutely, the sock is the preferred TFP way. This way it isn't sitting in the filter, it also isn't risking a clog in the pipes. You can see when its all dissolved (even speed it up by squooshing the sock in your hands now and then) and be able to backwash if needed without risk of just backwashing $20 bucks worth of CYA out in to the waste line.....
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    Using a sock in front of the return is the preferred method.
    17k IG plaster pool+ spa, Stonescape mini-pebble midnight blue, marble coping, Trex and porcelain tile decking, Pentair Intelliflo VSP x 3 (filter, laminars and spa jets), Pentair IC40, Pentair MasterTemp 400, Pentair Quad DE 100, Pentair CC 150 for laminars, Intellibrite 5G LEDs, MagicStream Laminars x 3, Intellitouch i9+3 automation with Screenlogic2, IntellipH, Dolphin s300i, TFTest kit, SpeedStir

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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    thank you. So I will fill up the socks with the 5 lb and hang near the skimmer and just let it go and add the MA also. So the sock should be before the skimmer or after the eyeball?

    - - - Updated - - -

    As you can tell I am a little anal about doing this properly. It's the way I am. LOL
    17,100 gal, AG ,vinyl, sand Hayward DreamLine, pump Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5 HP single speed, august 2015 install, water test kit Taylor K-2005, Pentair IC20 SWG, water from community well.

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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    Hang it on the end of a broomstick or something like that so that its in the water in front of a return, but not touching the side of the pool. The turbulence from the returning water will help it dissolve faster. OR put the sock in the skimmer but run the pump 24/7 until it dissolves (so that CYA laden water doesn't sit stagnant in the skimmer with the pump off...then you turn it on and it blasts lower pH water at your pump gaskets and mechanicals. Just a precaution).

    I actually hang my cya filled sock from some pool noodle and just let it float around the pool.
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    i have two socks on two noodles tied together, floating like a dream. Thanks. The pump will run 24 hours. Then I'll check the chems.

    a sincere thank you to everyone who has posted to my issue.

    Bill
    17,100 gal, AG ,vinyl, sand Hayward DreamLine, pump Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5 HP single speed, august 2015 install, water test kit Taylor K-2005, Pentair IC20 SWG, water from community well.

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    Its a bit slower when just allowed to float but I'm good with that. I just remember to squeeze it now and then to speed it up. When its floating like this you don't have to keep the pump running unless you want to. The CYA is going into the large body of water, not just sitting in the skimmer- that's when you need to run the pump til its dissolved.

    ....and hey... gotta help a fellow Georgian, eh?
    My Amazon Smile for November12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
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    Re: SWG Runtime Question

    Well it's not been quite 24 hours and the two socks have not completely dissolved but neither has the CYA granules. It appears that there are some very small white grains. I have squished them and no more milky colored liquid comes out so I’m done with that. I check chemistry after the storms are over. I had to waste about 300 gals from last night storm. Hopefully no more storms tonight. I am going to run the filter from midnight to 1pm and see how the FC holds up.

    Well I did help a fellow Georgian today, I told her to check TFP about her, what sounds like a terrible green algae problem due to a pump failure. I did not want to give her incorrect info on how to proceed but if memory serves, the cure has something to do with chlorine. I guess they already dumped a whole bottle of algaecide in and no relief. She bought 3-4 bottles of 10% chlorine, no swg, and some Clorox shock. I told her to go to the TFP website, register and ask the pros.

    Happy 4th of July and thanks for everything.

    Bill
    17,100 gal, AG ,vinyl, sand Hayward DreamLine, pump Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5 HP single speed, august 2015 install, water test kit Taylor K-2005, Pentair IC20 SWG, water from community well.

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