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Thread: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

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    Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    As I mentioned previously, pool was plastered over weekend and filled Sunday, so now on day four of start up. Plasterers added sequestrant first day (Monday) and one gallon MA and three trichlor pucks in both skimmer baskets Tuesday. Haven't added anything since then.

    Tested yesterday evening and got the following:
    FC - 7
    CC - .5
    pH - > 8.2
    TA - 100
    CH - 750
    CYA - 0

    This morning it was:
    FC - 9
    CC - < .5
    pH - > 8.2
    TA - 100
    CH - 650
    CYA - 0

    So various questions -

    FC - is it possible that it rose two ppm overnight, even without any additional chlorine being added? I checked the pucks and they are mostly dissolved, so I'm thinking that number will come down on its own, and I just won't add any for the time being?

    pH - has been high since filled. Should I add another gallon MA today?

    CH - had risen every time I'd tested it until this morning. Couldn't believe it was at 750 last night. We don't really have particularly hard water here. Then this morning it seemed to come down. But I'm wondering if I'm doing the test exactly correct - instructions just say to add drops until it turns blue, not to swirl while adding, so I've been waiting 'til it really goes blue to record the reading, but it mostly turns blue several drops before it goes all the way, and I think if you swirled it, it would be all blue, so am I doing that correctly, or when it turns blue enough to make it all blue if swirled, that's the reading?

    CYA - appears we have none. As I'd mentioned, plasterer said we did not need to add any as we have the trichlor. Wondering if I need to worry about that right now, or let it adjust itself over time?

    OK, I think that's all for now. Thanks for all the help so far!
    New Orleans, 15,000 gallon IG free form Wet Edge Primera Stone Riviera Coast, Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump (011018), Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter (160340), Rainbow R171096 Automatic Chlorine Feeder, TF-100 Test Kit, build March-June 2016, filled June 19

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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    doesn't sound like you are testing properly. you should be swirling in between drops on the CH test. as far as your CYA goes, you will need to get some in the water. If you are chlorinating with trichlor, eventually the CYA levels will come up but you should really get some CYA into the water and then switch over to liquid bleach (unless your builder is requiring you to use trichlor for a certain time period for warranty purposes).

    I have a vinyl liner so maybe someone else could verify, but I think PH rise is normal for a freshly plastered pool. From what I've read on this forum, I think you just need to keep adjusting until it stabilizes and make sure you are brushing frequently.

    FC will only go up when chlorine is added. In this case, as the pucks you are using dissolve, they're adding FC.


    Also, I wouldn't continue using your skimmer basket for pucks. I definitely wouldn't leave them in there while the pump is turned off. Do yourself a favor and buy a cheap floater for the pucks. They're only a few bucks and you won't have to worry about them destroying your plumbing.
    16'x32' Inground Vinyl, 21,100 gallons, Hayward 1.5 HP Super Pump, Hayward Pro Series S244T 3.1ft Sand Filter
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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    You need to follow any manufacturer's start-up policy so that you don't void your warranty. Did your PB give you those details?

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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    Have you read this?
    Pool School - Calcium Hardness

    It is normal for PH to rise in newly plastered pools. It takes up to a year for plaster to fully cure. It is important to keep PH below 7.8 at all times unless the PB is doing an alkaline start up. It is normal for CH to rise as plaster is brushed and the dust dissolves into the water.

    Your focus right now needs to be
    First, do what the PB/plaster company says to co ply with warranty requirements/instructions

    Second, register your warranty and read and follow all guidelines here
    Wet Edge | Warranty

    Then,
    Keep PH at 7.8 or lower at all times
    Keep FC above minimum for your CYA at all times, FC/CYA Chart so that you do not grow algae and have to SLAM a brand new pool.
    Get CYA level up to 50 ppm
    Brush

    After 30 days or so we can look more at TA and CH. Right now CH is high enough, over 250, to not be a concern.
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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    Thanks, all, for your patience in helping me through this.

    To answer a few things -

    Definitely not planning to continue adding trichlor pucks in skimmer - plasterer just did that initially, as pump is running 24/7 right now. We have an automatic chlorinator, so will start adding them to that soon. Thing is, I'm probably not going to be doing the bleach method, because we are going to have to hire a maintenance service, as we travel a lot for significant periods of time, so will have to let them do their thing, but will of course be keeping a close eye on them.

    Good to know re the CH test - I thought it was strange not to swirl between drops, I do for all the other tests that it says to, but that one didn't say to, so I did not. So I suspect the CH is in fact really maybe 100 or so less. Will retest later or tomorrow.

    Had not read that page on Pool School re CH - that is very helpful, thanks. (On a side note, I have just been rinsing the test tubes with pool water - is that not good practice? I of course don't throw the tested water back in.)

    Figured the high pH and CH may be a result of the fresh plaster. There is still a fair amount of plaster dust coming off.

    And yes, I have been following the Wet Edge instructions. Plasterer did not seem too concerned with the start up process.

    So sounds like I should work on bringing that pH down. I do that by adding MA, right? So I'll do that, and I'll get some CYA later to go ahead and get that up. Been brushing religiously

    Thanks again!
    New Orleans, 15,000 gallon IG free form Wet Edge Primera Stone Riviera Coast, Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump (011018), Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter (160340), Rainbow R171096 Automatic Chlorine Feeder, TF-100 Test Kit, build March-June 2016, filled June 19

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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    I rinse out with pool water so I hope it is good. Yes, definitely report back any CH number below 250.
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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    Haha, cool. Oh no, I meant the CH is maybe 100 or so less than I had been measuring, which was 650. I'm guessing it's really maybe in the 400-500 range. I'd be truly shocked if it were less than 200.

    But I'm sure I'll report back all my latest numbers in any case. Added 1/2 gallon MA a bit ago, will add other 1/2 tonight. Gonna get some CYA this evening and add that too, so will be curious to see my numbers tomorrow, and even more so Saturday.

    Oh, and I should have mentioned earlier - warranty is registered and confirmed.

    Thanks!

    New Orleans, 15,000 gallon IG free form Wet Edge Primera Stone Riviera Coast, Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump (011018), Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter (160340), Rainbow R171096 Automatic Chlorine Feeder, TF-100 Test Kit, build March-June 2016, filled June 19

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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    Go ahead and retest Ph before adding the other half gallon of MA - you don't want to overshoot!
    8,500gal plaster in-ground with attached spa, two floor drains, one skimmer. Chlorine, City Water.
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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    Actually, I was going to do that, thanks for the reminder though. It seems to be well over 8.2 (had pool store measure it first day and it was 8.9), so I suspect it will need the other half, but I will test it first. Thanks!

    New Orleans, 15,000 gallon IG free form Wet Edge Primera Stone Riviera Coast, Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump (011018), Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter (160340), Rainbow R171096 Automatic Chlorine Feeder, TF-100 Test Kit, build March-June 2016, filled June 19

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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    Great! Some poor forumer here added 3 gallons of MA at the pool store's recommendation and really made a mess (the store was happy to sell them more chemicals to get Ph back up of course!) Just wanted to make sure you didn't add the second half in the blind.
    8,500gal plaster in-ground with attached spa, two floor drains, one skimmer. Chlorine, City Water.
    Pentair WhisperFlo 1hp Pump, MagnaTek Midcentury EPlus motor, Pentair CleanNClear 200SF Cartridge filter, Purex Triton MiniMax 250 Gas Heater, Pentair SunLite, AutoFill.
    Kreepy Krauly Cruiser, TF-100 with SpeedStir. :D

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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    Oh yikes! Cool, much appreciated. 👍

    New Orleans, 15,000 gallon IG free form Wet Edge Primera Stone Riviera Coast, Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump (011018), Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter (160340), Rainbow R171096 Automatic Chlorine Feeder, TF-100 Test Kit, build March-June 2016, filled June 19

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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    Couple questions re adding the CYA -

    Should I put it all in at once (it says "add product VERY SLOWLY to skimmer," but I'm not entirely clear on what they mean by that)?

    Should I put it all in one of the skimmers, or distribute between the two? Seems it'd be better to spread out, eh?

    And most importantly, is it safe to swim immediately after adding it??

    Thanks!

    New Orleans, 15,000 gallon IG free form Wet Edge Primera Stone Riviera Coast, Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump (011018), Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter (160340), Rainbow R171096 Automatic Chlorine Feeder, TF-100 Test Kit, build March-June 2016, filled June 19

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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    Stop - do not add it directly to the skimmer or water.

    You need to put it in a sock and either suspend it in front of a return (so it's not touching the sides) or put the sock in the skimmer and leave the pump running 24/7 until it's dissolved.
    8,500gal plaster in-ground with attached spa, two floor drains, one skimmer. Chlorine, City Water.
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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    You are quick!

    So I remember hearing and reading this, that you need to do this sock method, so did a bunch of reading about this earlier, and I saw over and over that it is in fact fine to add it directly to the skimmer. And that's exactly what the instructions on the bottle say to do. So...?

    Re time to swimming, a closer reading of the bottle says resume swimming after 15 minutes. So good on that count.

    New Orleans, 15,000 gallon IG free form Wet Edge Primera Stone Riviera Coast, Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump (011018), Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter (160340), Rainbow R171096 Automatic Chlorine Feeder, TF-100 Test Kit, build March-June 2016, filled June 19

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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    Here is how to add chemicals, Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals
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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    Alright, alright, fine, don't have to tell me twice ☺ Not much skin off my back to just put it in a sock in the skimmer, no biggie (why would anyone go to the trouble of suspending it if the skimmer works just as well? Does it not, is there some benefit to the hanging method?).

    Just out of curiosity, why do the instructions on the bottle say to just add it directly, if this is not preferred? (Although I bet I can guess the answer to this.)

    So my question still remains re if I should put it all in at once, and if I should use both skimmers or just put it in one? I think I'm going to need all four pounds of it, so probably more than will fit in a sock at once, so probably just practically will have to be a couple times, but just curious what's ideal.

    Thanks again!

    New Orleans, 15,000 gallon IG free form Wet Edge Primera Stone Riviera Coast, Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump (011018), Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter (160340), Rainbow R171096 Automatic Chlorine Feeder, TF-100 Test Kit, build March-June 2016, filled June 19

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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    This is where the hanging it in front of a return or two is handy. So you don't jam up your skimmers with CYA socks. Knee highs work well too. Pouring it in the skimmer causes lots of problems. Anywhere from completely stopping up skimmer lines to going straight to the filter, raising pressure and getting backwashed out. If it does go to the filter and not get backwashed it will take a week, sometimes more, to dissolve depending if it gets stuck in a high flow or low flow area of the filter. Feel free to give it a shot and add to the list of potential problems!
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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    pH still off the charts, so added the rest of the MA.

    Have half the CYA in socks in the skimmers (I can listen ☺), will add rest in morning.

    Thanks again for all the help!

    New Orleans, 15,000 gallon IG free form Wet Edge Primera Stone Riviera Coast, Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump (011018), Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter (160340), Rainbow R171096 Automatic Chlorine Feeder, TF-100 Test Kit, build March-June 2016, filled June 19

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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    So, here are my test results from this morning:
    FC - 2
    CC - < .5
    pH - > 8.2
    TA - 60
    CH - 500
    CYA - 40

    So, my chlorine really came down, from 9 yesterday to 2 today, but good that I don't have a lot of CCs, right (it barely registered)? Guess I need to add some more chlorine soon?

    pH still very high, this is even after adding the other 1/2 gal of MA last night. Should I add more again today already? Or see what it's like tonight or tomorrow morning before adding more?

    Why would the TA have dropped so much (went from 100 to 60 in one day)?? At what point do I need to start being concerned and trying to bring it up (Wet Edge instruction say it should be at least 80)?

    CH at 500 seems a little more reasonable. Guess that's nothing I need to be worried about for now.

    And as for the CYA, well I guess it's a good thing I didn't add it all at once! Was all dissolved this morning and seems that that worked - I'm at 40 right now, which I believe is a good place to be, yeah? But guess I will not add any more of that for now.

    Any other thoughts, observations, etc. based on my results are as always much appreciated. Thanks!
    New Orleans, 15,000 gallon IG free form Wet Edge Primera Stone Riviera Coast, Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump (011018), Clean and Clear Plus Cartridge Filter (160340), Rainbow R171096 Automatic Chlorine Feeder, TF-100 Test Kit, build March-June 2016, filled June 19

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    Re: Do I Need to Add Anything? Why is CH So High??

    Adding MA to reduce pH affects TA (also reduces it). I'm not sure if it reduced TA that much, or perhaps the testing method was a little off - either way, you can expect TA to drop when you're adding MA. TA is a hard number to set as a "goal", there isn't really a particular number you need to hold, but rather a sweet spot (when you don't have new plaster) where it will help to keep the pH from rising too. For now, just keep it above 50 or so - PoolMath can tell you what you need to add if it drops too low (TA that is too low causes wild swings in pH).

    Meanwhile, that pH number is still off the charts. Personally, I'd consider adding more MA to get it down further as soon as possible.

    CYA of 40 is pretty good. Let's wait a week or so and retest. You may want to push it to 50 if your pool is getting lots of sun and you're losing a lot of chlorine throughout the day.
    8,500gal plaster in-ground with attached spa, two floor drains, one skimmer. Chlorine, City Water.
    Pentair WhisperFlo 1hp Pump, MagnaTek Midcentury EPlus motor, Pentair CleanNClear 200SF Cartridge filter, Purex Triton MiniMax 250 Gas Heater, Pentair SunLite, AutoFill.
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