Phosphate problem off the chart

[fmblizz]

I am always fighting metal in my pool water and staining on my fiberglass pool shell. I have always tried to stay on top of my chemicals but recently I noticed a slight amount of green algae appearing, just very slight. I was considering Slamming the pool but my CC calculation is always around .2-.3 so I held off besides my CYA is around 90 so lots of Chlorine. The other parameters are pretty much on the money so I took a sample to my local pool store to have them verify my numbers,,,, LOL ,,, you know what that means..

The guy was actually pretty good about it as I do buy things there when needed.

He said that pretty much everything was on the money as far as my number but he could not understand why the Phosphates were off the chart... He said they were so high his testing equipment could not give me an accurate number.

Being a salt water aquarium owner I know that any amount of phosphates in an aquarium lead to so unwanted algae problem so I purchase a product to bring down the number whatever they might be..

My main concern right now is how did this high phosphate problem develop... I have a very light pool load and its early in the swim season.. I do use a SunGuard product called Metal-out-plus do to the staining problem about 18oz every other week so I'm thinking that may be the source. I can not find out any product information on this Metal Out product.

Any members out their have an opinion on this??

Thanks in advance

Gary Blizzard
fmblizz

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[mikemass]

Do you have a lawn service that sprays or throws granular fertilizer around your pool? If so, tell them to be more careful around the pool. Better yet, do it yourself. You are not going to get a lot of love on this forum re phosphates. Typical answer will be: "They are not as big a deal as pool stores lead you to believe. They are just trying to sell you something you don't need. Keep your FC levels in check with straight bleach and you will be fine."

 

[JVTrain]

Phosphates can indeed be a problem for algae growth... in an aquarium. Aquariums intentionally do no have any chlorine sanitation. Swimming pools always have chlorine sanitizer present. As long as there is sufficient chlorination, phosphates are irrelevant. If you allow sanitation to lapse, algae growth could be quicker in a pool with high phosphates but if you always maintain proper sanitation, there's no need to lower phosphates.

Phosphates usually come from external sources such as chemicals added. It can come from fertilizers used in the area of the pool. Most metal sequestrants as you're using contain phosphonic acid. Over time, they do degrade into orthophosphates, the kind of phosphates that are a concern for algae in under-sanitized pools and aquariums.

Can you post a full set of test results using your test kit?

 

[fmblizz]

Thanks for the quick response..

The numbers I came up with using the TF-100 kit are FC 4,, CC .3,,, Alk 110,,, PH 6.8,,, CYA 80..

Like I said I usually stay on top of things before they get out of hand and that is why I had a hard look when I though I might be getting an algae problem.

Thanks again
Gary Blizzard

 

[tim5055]

Do you manually chlorinate, if so what do you use?

You don't list a SWCG, so if it is not a salt pool your chlorine is way too low.

In any case, you see algae you need to SLAM Process

 

[fmblizz]

when you say straight bleach are you referring to Super Market Clorox???

Thanks for the reply
Gary Blizzard

 

[Mr Bruce]

Or Wal Mart Great Value, or Wal Mart Pool Chlorinating Liquid, or 12.5 from a cleaning or pool store if you are lucky

Your pH is too low, that should be addressed before anything.

 

[fmblizz]

I intentionally keep the PH a little low to help keep the staining off the white pool... Should have gotten a brown pool I guess LOL

Gary

 

[tim5055]

I intentionally keep the PH a little low to help keep the staining off the white pool... Should have gotten a brown pool I guess LOL

Gary

Keeping it low for a reason is fine, but 6.8 is a the low end of testing. It could easily go much lower and you wouldn't be able to see it with testing. Bringing it up a little would be better.

How do you chlorinate the pool?

 

[fmblizz]

I leave a puck in the skimmer and adjust using granular... Will definitely bring up the PH though and then I guess the plan is to SLAM..

Gary

 

[Mr Bruce]

I leave a puck in the skimmer

That is a very bad idea. They are extremely acidic and can damage the skimmer and then the pump when the pump is turned on.

 

[tim5055]

Your CYA is already double what we would recomend for a non-SWG pool and is only going higher as you continue to use stabilized pucks and shock.

You need to do a partial drain and refill to,get,the CYA down to a reasonable number, adjust pH and SLAM Process

 

[fmblizz]

When you say damage the skimmer,,, are you referring to the acid from the puck's actually eating into the plastic?? I have been doing this for over 20 years and still have the same skimmer although I did replace my DE filter once..

Gary Blizzard

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Thanks Tim

I was afraid you were going to say that... A partial drain for me means no swimming for the kids and putting a lot more metal in the pool..
Can't believe we can put a man on the moon but can't develop something to reduce CYA... LOL

Gary

 

[needsajet]

Swampwoman has tons of experience with this and deep knowledge about it. I bet she notices the thread title and weighs in. Your Phosphate is coming from the metal-out product. Here's the MSDS: http://www.vantagewatercare.com/MSDS%20-%20VANTAGE%20Metal%20Out%20Plus_066.pdf

Swampwoman manages PO4 at tremendously high levels, and is certainly an authority in this arena. Use the search function with her name, and I'm sure you'll find threads and learn a ton.

Good luck with it! Don't hesitate to SLAM, and Happy Swimming!

 

[fmblizz]

After doing a little more research on the subject of high CYA's,, I found that the tab's and the granule's that I been using were the worst thing I should be using. I was looking for wording on the packaging stating "Stabilized" figuring if it was not on the label and not on the ingredient list then it contained no CYA... WRONG WRONG WRONG.

I purchased Sodium Dichloro-s which I just discovered has a built in Stabilizer.... Basically I now have a 5 gal tub of Dichlor granular and 5 gal tub of tab's that are useless unless I empty 50% of my pool..

Blizz

 

[mikemass]

Sounds like a 50% H2O change wouldn't be a bad thing in your case. First and foremost your pool will be more manageable with the lower CYA. But as a nice added bonus, it will reduce your Off The Charts Phosphate problem. (If they really are that high.) After that stay away from that Metal Out product.

 

[gwegan]

You need a consult from Swampwoman. She is the PO4 expert.

 

[fmblizz]

TFP EXPERT.... I tried reaching out to her and awaiting a reply......

Vicious cycle,,,,, well water causing severe staining, causing use of stain treatment chemicals, causing high phosphate, causing available food for Algae, coupled with hi CYA, coupled with increase of Dichlor = more CYA = not enough available chlorine = dumping 50% of water to reduce phosphate and reduce CYA = more new water = more metal contaminated water... and on and on and on so the cycle starts again...

Time to start looking at condo living.. LOL

Blizz

 

[Mr Bruce]

When you say damage the skimmer,,, are you referring to the acid from the puck's actually eating into the plastic?? I have been doing this for over 20 years and still have the same skimmer although I did replace my DE filter once..

 

[JVTrain]

I'll repeat. Phosphates are not an issue in properly sanitized pools. You can continue to use the sequestrant to deal with your metals problem. Just maintain proper FC levels for your CYA and you won't have an algae problem, regardless of your phosphate levels. CYA of 80 is manageable but you must maintain higher chlorine levels because of it. Lowering your CYA to 40 or 50 would make it more manageable.

Where does your metals staining come from? Are you on a well?