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Thread: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

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    My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    So with the house we recently bought, we got this mess below:

    Q0W2P54.jpg

    The pool itself is nice, but the pump situation is a disaster. Notice the missing conduit on the pump. The bit of silicone someone tried to shoot into where the wires come out is doing exactly nothing. Also the pump is on the same circuit as outlets in the master bedroom. It is hooked to a GFCI under the house, but said GFCI doesn't do anything when I test it. The pump isn't loud or anything, but I did notice it seems very hot. I measured the temp in some spots at around 230 degrees (around 91 degrees ambient temp) after the pump is running an hour or so.

    So I called an electrician out to get a quote on fixing some of these issues. I had him quote me on running a dedicated 220 circuit out to the pump with a GFCI breaker in the box, install a T104R timer, fix the pump wiring and switch it over to the 230v mode, and convert the existing circuit to a convenience outlet near the pump. I was about ready to pull the trigger on these fixes, but I started thinking about maybe I should take this time to do some upgrades? My thought is if I have this T104R timer installed, but then at a later date decide convert the pump motor over to one of those dual-speed motors with the built in timer (B975T?), then having this timer installed now is a waste of money. Also I'm concerned with as hot as this pump is running, and with the disaster that the current wiring is that is undoubtedly allowing water into pump, that this thing is a time bomb ready to die at any moment. I'm having the electrical stuff fixed regardless, but what to do with the pump is what I'm trying to figure out. I have a few options

    1)Have the T104R timer installed with this current pump and let it roll. Maybe it lasts a few years?
    2)Convert the pump to a dual speed with something like the B975T A.O. Smith 1 HP Full Rate Two Speed Motor W/ Timer - Round Flange (B975T,B2975T) - INYOPools.com

    3)Have a timer like the T10604R installed so that when this pump does fail, I can convert it to one of the dual speed pumps that doesn't have the built-in timer.

    At some point when it dies I'm planning on going with a dual speed, but I'm not sure if I should do it now or now. Moving into this house has already cost some serious cash, so I'm not that hot on spending $400 on a new pump at the moment in addition to fixing the electric disaster on this pool. So I guess the question is, given the messed up wiring, and pump running at 215 degrees, how long is this thing going to last like this? Is it worth keeping it how it is and just sticking a timer on there? If I put something like the T10604R on there, can I just use the timer portion until I get a new pump and then use the speed selector as well, or do both always have to be hooked up?

    This has to be a little too hot, right?

    PPuMcjk.jpg
    20K in-ground vinyl 32x16; Hayward Pro Series S244T sand filter with Hayward 1HP Super Pump,1 skimmer, 1 main drain, 2 returns; no heater; TF-100 test kit

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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    I can't really speak to your timer questions as I'm unfamiliar with those options but I do know from your description and what I see in the pictures you inherited someone's DIY project. The whole electrical supply thing worries me, I think your priority should be to get a dedicated line to the pump that's safe and secure.

    Temperature can matter when talking about pump motors but what matters more in relation to what and how a pump is operating is the amp draw. Check the amp draw with the pump running and compare that to what it's rated for. I know that 120v circuits pull more amps than 220v circuits so switching the voltage may help lessen the temperature and prolong the life of the motor. If everything is in-line the motor should last till you get your bank back up for upgrades.

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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    Is that green wire going to the plastic sand filter housing supposed to be a bonding wire? The bonding wire should be bare copper not insulated. The burning paint on the motor is sign enough it's overheating. You should be able to leave your hand on the motor while it's running. There is a lot I see wrong in that picture. Plan a motor sooner rather than later tho.
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    Also a bit of concern is that green wire connected to your bond lug, which looks disconnected in the background
    of the last photo....looks like CJ just asked about that too (above me)

    The pump itself is ok but ya the connections are messy for sure.

    If the sun is hitting the label on that motor, that's not helping.

    I have that same motor and they do get hot under normal loads.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    Turns that green wire isn't hooked to anything. After reading what bonding is, I looked around the pump area and I don't see any bare copper wires sticking up anywhere. I'm starting to suspect the pool isn't bonded. What really annoys me is we paid extra for a pool inspection when we got the house inspected and all they caught was the missing conduit on the pump. Nothing about what appears to be a lack of bonding, or the fact that the Gfci doesn't do anything. I paid for that because I thought someone who knew what I didn't know would look out for these things, apparently I was wrong. This was a house inspector that advertises pool inspections as part of what they do.

    So I guess I addition to the pump issue I've now got to figure out if the pool is bonded? Other than ripping concrete out is there some way to figure this out?
    20K in-ground vinyl 32x16; Hayward Pro Series S244T sand filter with Hayward 1HP Super Pump,1 skimmer, 1 main drain, 2 returns; no heater; TF-100 test kit

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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    It's annoying that someone who claims to know pools as an inspector wouldn't catch that. There are electricians who will know how to check if there is any bonding around the pool.
    Chuck-
    15x30 Above ground, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    I'm planning on having the dedicated circuit with gfci breaker run for the pump and that wiring fixed , I guess I can ask them at that time if they can figure out the bonding situation.

    Question is should we even swim in this pool? We've been in a few times and I haven't felt any tingling, but of course that doesn't rule out future issues. I've been turning off the breaker for the pump when we go in, but I know that doesn't have anything to do with the bonding issue.
    20K in-ground vinyl 32x16; Hayward Pro Series S244T sand filter with Hayward 1HP Super Pump,1 skimmer, 1 main drain, 2 returns; no heater; TF-100 test kit

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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    I would start by replacing the GFCI outlet for 15 bucks for peace of mind. If you tested it and its not popping it, then the outlet most likely is bad.... You can always convert to a 230v GFCI breaker down the road (and will prob find another use for the GFCI breaker...if your pump wiring looks like that then there are prob other wiring upgrades that can be made as well).....

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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    It might be possible your gfci is mismatched on the wiring, that will pass current
    but it will not trip when the test button is pressed...so confirm that it is properly
    wired before replacing...you may not need to.

    can you post a photo of your pool and how far it is from the equipment pad?

    Do you have a pool light?

    My pool had no bonding wire it's an inground vinyl just like yours. The shell is concrete. But no light or main drain.

    I do have a metal ladder and was VERY concerned about the lack of bonding even though the previous owners made no
    mention of tingling or shocks.

    What I did was chip out a narrow shallow channel in the concrete decking with sharp chisel and snaked a #8 bare copper wire from the ladder to the equipment pad, (burying it in the dirt between the decking and house foundation) then secured it to the bronze ladder anchor and bolt with a bronze washer. Lowes has a great price for copper wire by the foot by the way.

    Then used some grout to cover the chipped out line for the wire to hide it.

    Then connected that to the pump motor bond lug after I polished it then continued the wire to the heater bond lug.

    I'm much more confident now about the bonding situation.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    Not an expert but doesnt everything have to also have to be bonded to the rebar cage in the cement to be at code?
    18,000 gunite pool/spa combo. Pebble tec, iaqualink rs8, cl580 filter, aquapure 1400, 400k btu lx heater, 10 solar panels, jandy 1hp, 1 1/2hp, and 2hp stealth pumps for circ, spa, waterfall

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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    Minor update. I opened the blank face GFCI that was hooked to the pump switch and found that it wasn't hooked up properly. They had the line from the breaker hooked with pigtails to the line to the pump switch, then hooked to the line side of the GFCI. I rewired it with the breaker hooked into line, and then from load on the gfci to the pump switch. Now the GFCI works properly. At least that part is settled for now.

    My pool doesn't have a light. The only metal in the pool is the deep end ladder. No pics on me, but my pool is about 27 feet from the pad. There is about 4-5 feet of dirt between the concrete of the patio that the pool is in, and the equipment pad. I was thinking of digging up around there and see if I can find a bonding wire running from the patio to the pad. It's possible it's there but got chopped off somehow....at least I hope. Given the rest of the electrical situation I'm not confident.
    20K in-ground vinyl 32x16; Hayward Pro Series S244T sand filter with Hayward 1HP Super Pump,1 skimmer, 1 main drain, 2 returns; no heater; TF-100 test kit

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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    What is the bare wire sticking out to the side of the pump casing in the very first picture? It looks a lot like a bonding wire. It's hard to tell from the picture. Does it go down into the concrete or is it attached to the pump?
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    The green one? That is the "Wire to Nowhere" . It's literally hooked to nothing. The end is just floating in the air. It may have been tucked under the filter at some point to give the appearanfe of a bond wire
    20K in-ground vinyl 32x16; Hayward Pro Series S244T sand filter with Hayward 1HP Super Pump,1 skimmer, 1 main drain, 2 returns; no heater; TF-100 test kit

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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    Not the green wire, the bare one that looks like it's comming out from under the front part of the pump. It looks like a bonding wire.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    Oh that's a stick.
    20K in-ground vinyl 32x16; Hayward Pro Series S244T sand filter with Hayward 1HP Super Pump,1 skimmer, 1 main drain, 2 returns; no heater; TF-100 test kit

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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    Our equipment pad has a 1" grounding stake in the ground next to it it that is sticking up about 4 inches out of the ground. The bonding wires are attached to it. May want to look around to see if you seeing anything like that. The bonding wire to the equipment may have broken off at that point.
    Inground 22k gallon gunite 15x31 main pool, 15x7 wading pool/sunning deck, hot tub/with overflow (9' octagon with limestone top) & slide NSWG, Aqua Blue Pebble Sheen
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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    I did find big stake in the ground just around the corner of the house from the pad, but I lightly pulled on it and it came right out of the ground. Dug around that area and it wasn't attached to anything. I think the easiest thing to do is just dig in the dirt between the patio and pad and see if I can locate anything. I'll give that a try tonight.
    20K in-ground vinyl 32x16; Hayward Pro Series S244T sand filter with Hayward 1HP Super Pump,1 skimmer, 1 main drain, 2 returns; no heater; TF-100 test kit

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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice


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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    So after contacting the city we finally found out the pool was originally built in 1981. I'm guessing that far back it's definitely not bonded.

    So I guess now the question is what do I do about it? I imagine digging up the patio to put in a bonding ring and bond everything is going to cost me a small fortune.
    20K in-ground vinyl 32x16; Hayward Pro Series S244T sand filter with Hayward 1HP Super Pump,1 skimmer, 1 main drain, 2 returns; no heater; TF-100 test kit

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    Re: My pump is a complete mess, looking for advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Rossterman View Post
    Not an expert but doesnt everything have to also have to be bonded to the rebar cage in the cement to be at code?
    There's no rebar in my cement that I'm aware of, vinyl inground cement pools are much different and somewhat rare than in ground plaster ones. (at least that's what I've been told)

    Some might advocate a grid under my concrete decking, but that would be a massive cost and something I'm not prepared to do.

    I'm confident the ladder which is also now bonding the water is more than sufficient being tied to all metallic items touching the water and I also
    updated my pump motor circuit breaker to gfci.


    My last pool at a different house was gunite built in the early 70's and it had a bond wire.

    I almost cut it (previous owner had not reconnected it to the pump), before learning here what it was for...lesson learned, don't make a drastic change what you don't know heheh
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
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