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Thread: Clearing algae

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    Clearing algae

    proavia, We have an appt for Tues to show us how to clean the DE filter. We were told it's confusing to put back together although it seems to me we could've taken pictures to remember the steps but it's ok, we'll have them show us the first time for a whopping $150. I"m really hoping that will take care of the pop-ups. dirt is more visible in the drain and it almost seems a waste to push it into the drain although the pressure is not up to the red on the filter (thx for the tip on backwashing at 20-25%, tho! Do you mean 20-25% way up between where the black arrow is and the red arrow?). we have backwashed 4-5 times since having the pool in the last 11 mths. do u clean when u backwash when at 20-25%?

    I don't recall knowing that the pop ups pop up a bit when there's low flow. i'm going to have to check mine for sure.

    as far as the pool being green, I am referring to algae on the wall, not the water being green. i have always tried to go light on chlorine. i wonder how much of my prob that is, but I am running it at 100% and after being on all night it reads only 2.0 chlorine. I have it on super chlorinator now and I've had to do that more than once already the beginning of this season and the water isn't even that warm yet. a pool guy told me to take the water to the pool store and check for phophate and if over 200 get phosphate remover, check stabilizer and if 50 and above it's ok. if under 50 add conditioner. from what i recall we have over 3000 salt. We have the kit that came with the pool, Poolmaster 5-way test kit bromine/chlorine combo. Tests for Chlorine, Bromine, pH, alkalinity, and acid demand. the pb said that kit is fine and don't overthink it. they said the pool store wants to make money and it's rare we'll need to buy anything there. Seeing how there is so much dirt in the pool, now and maybe nothing is going into the drain, you don't think that contributes much?

    as far as cleaning the filter, it will be good to finally see what it can do at it's best without a bunch of dirt in the backyard... I'm so anxious to get this figured out. it's been torture to have called them a week ago and having to wait so long but this info in the meantime is priceless. thx so much! i'm saving this thread in a word document.
    I also read I can take the cell to Leslies and have them check it.


    Mod note: These posts were moved from this thread-http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/118132-main-drain-has-dirt-and-debri-sitting-in-the-bottom-no-suction
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorsgal View Post
    proavia, We have an appt for Tues to show us how to clean the DE filter. We were told it's confusing to put back together although it seems to me we could've taken pictures to remember the steps but it's ok, we'll have them show us the first time for a whopping $150. I"m really hoping that will take care of the pop-ups. dirt is more visible in the drain and it almost seems a waste to push it into the drain although the pressure is not up to the red on the filter (thx for the tip on backwashing at 20-25%, tho! Do you mean 20-25% way up between where the black arrow is and the red arrow?). we have backwashed 4-5 times since having the pool in the last 11 mths. do u clean when u backwash when at 20-25%?
    Take lots of pictures and notes when they come to clean the filter for you. What is the exact manufacturer and model number of your filter? Again, ALL return water should be directed to the pop ups, and none to the returns - if you want the most effective cleaning. Clean/backwash when filter pressure rises 20-25% above clean pressure. So, if clean pressure is 20, clean/backwash when pressure rises to 24-25. Don't go by the black and red arrows on the gauge. Know your clean pressure and know when you clean/backwash. And also have them explain the water distribution valve - especially the run/pause lever.

    I don't recall knowing that the pop ups pop up a bit when there's low flow. i'm going to have to check mine for sure.
    Mine only pop up maybe 1/8 of an inch. Easy to see on mine, maybe not as easy to see on yours (different systems).

    as far as the pool being green, I am referring to algae on the wall, not the water being green. i have always tried to go light on chlorine. i wonder how much of my prob that is, but I am running it at 100% and after being on all night it reads only 2.0 chlorine. I have it on super chlorinator now and I've had to do that more than once already the beginning of this season and the water isn't even that warm yet. a pool guy told me to take the water to the pool store and check for phophate and if over 200 get phosphate remover, check stabilizer and if 50 and above it's ok. if under 50 add conditioner. from what i recall we have over 3000 salt. We have the kit that came with the pool, Poolmaster 5-way test kit bromine/chlorine combo. Tests for Chlorine, Bromine, pH, alkalinity, and acid demand. the pb said that kit is fine and don't overthink it. they said the pool store wants to make money and it's rare we'll need to buy anything there. Seeing how there is so much dirt in the pool, now and maybe nothing is going into the drain, you don't think that contributes much?
    If you have green - whether on the walls or water color - you have an algae bloom. And that's most always NOT a filtering issues - it's a chemical issue. You don't have enough chlorine in there to kill all the nasties. The chlorine is a sanitizer. Going "light" on the chlorine isn't going to properly sanitized you pool water. That 5-way test kit doesn't have the essential tests to let you know the condition of your pool. And "free" tests at the pool store wind up costing you major $$$$$ - as you wind up taking their supposedly "professional" advice and add magic potions willy nilly to your pool in an attempt to get it looking good. Phosphates aren't an issue - as long as you have enough chlorine. Don't waste your money on phosphate removers. If you really want to take control of you pool, read through Pool School in the link at the top of the page, get yourself a real testkit - I recommend the TF100 from TFTestkits.net - get the XL option as you already have algae and will be testing often to help ride yourself of the algae. Dirt in the pool is an aesthetic issue - algae is a (lack of) sanitation issue..... they are not the same.

    as far as cleaning the filter, it will be good to finally see what it can do at it's best without a bunch of dirt in the backyard... I'm so anxious to get this figured out. it's been torture to have called them a week ago and having to wait so long but this info in the meantime is priceless. thx so much! i'm saving this thread in a word document.
    I also read I can take the cell to Leslies and have them check it.
    While you are waiting for them to come show you how the filter comes apart - (yeah, I know I'm repeating myself here) read through Pool School, order the TF100 Kit w/XL option ( and the Speed Stir if you can swing it) and continue to ask questions here. No one cares for your pool as much as you do - not your PB or any pool store. Once you get the algae eradicated, you will be amazed at how easy pool care can be and how sparkly your pool water is. The teachings on this site will help you get there. Heck, you may even save some money in the long run. Embrace the concepts and teaching here and we will be here to assist in your journey to a trouble free pool.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    proavia, you have been so very helpful. thank you so much. the filter is by Hayward Pool products. model # DE4820. the black dial is almost at 28 and I will ask the guy the questions you mentioned to have a better understanding of when to backwash verses what the super recommended as far as cleaning when it gets close to the red. I'm thinking of backwashing it today even though I imagine that it'd be backwashed Tuesday, too. I don't understand the difference, yet, with backwashing and cleaning a filter. My guess is that cleaning the filter gets out the excess yuck that backwashing isn't able to get out. If the drain is full of dirt I imagine backwashing can only help.

    If there is a chlorine issue does it sound like I'm on the right track to bring the salt filter to the pool store to see if it's running well? I will certainly read the recommended readings and thankyou for recommending a specific kit!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    Cleaning the filter means taking it apart and cleaning the grids and interior of the filter. Backwashing rinses the dirt and debris (along with some of the DE) out of your filter through the backwash hose. Backwashing does not get the grids and filter as clean as taking the filter apart fully.

    I guess it wouldn't hurt to take the SWCG cell in to have it tested. Do you know the make and model number of the SWCG? They do need periodic cleaning, which you can do yourself. Part of the low chlorine issue could be related to pump run time being too short (SWCG only produces chlorine when pump is running) or the SWCG output being too low. And with our excessive summer temps and UV rays you may need to supplement the SWCG with liquid chlorine/bleach from time to time (as the SWCG may not be able to keep up with chlorine demand).

    You seems to have a few different issues going on....
    * - in floor system not working as you expect
    * - filter possibly not filtering as it should
    * - insufficient chlorine - algae

    While I listed insufficient chlorine last, it is the most important. Please consider ordering the TF100 (with XL option) sooner rather than later. If possible, post a FULL set of test results with the test kit you have.

    FC
    CC
    pH
    TA
    CH
    CYA
    Water temp

    With these numbers, we can assist you in at least helping the pool water not getting worse than it is. And when you receive your new test kit, help you clear all the algae and get your water properly chlorinated and sparkly.

    In addition to Pool School in general, familiarize yourself with the following:
    Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart
    Pool School - Recommended Levels
    Pool Math

    Do you know how many gallons of water your pool holds? If not, maybe look on the paperwork from the builder or give them a call and ask. This number will be important as you add chlorine, acid and possible other items to the water.

    By finding this site and posting, you have already shown a willingness to learn more about your pool. While the learning curve may appear to be a little steep (and may seem a bit overwhelming to begin with), it is well worth the effort - at least in my opinion. We will gladly assist you in your quest - and even provide a bit of hand holding if need be. I do caution you that it's not really possible to mix our pool care philosophy with what you get from the pool store or your PB.

    Consider updating your signature with make and model of your equipment, along with pool volume and testkit info. This will help us better assist you in the future. Much easier to find the info in your signature than have time dig through previous posts to find it or have to ask you repeatedly.

    Don't be hesitant to ask questions here.
    Remember, the only dumb questions are the ones you don't bother asking.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    Oh - and talk the technician into providing some hands on instruction in disassembling and reassembling the filter and grids. It's not really difficult - but much easier when someone shows you and allows you to do it in their presence
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    thanks so much, again, I really appreciate it.
    gallons=14,400
    salt cell= Hayward Turbo cell T Cell-15
    I never thought I'd have to add chlorine to a pool with that size cell. Although we have had some neighborhood kid in the pool already this season plus I have 3 of my own They jump in fully clothed and although we use all natural laundry soap someone mentioned the laundry detergents... effecting the pool, too. I'm also wondering if I should really start having people rinse off before hopping into the pool. I'd rather not have to, but something else that I'm sure contributes.

    The reason I think the cell could be defective is that even though we cleaned it last week and it didn't have much calcium in it, even after running it 100% (superchlorinator) from 5:45pm last night to 3pm today chlorine still was only at 2.0.

    I'll try to read through everything tonight and order the test kit then. I like the idea of the pb saying keep it simple and with all the things to look at in this method it doesn't sound simple, although it's not simple to have a green pool. It'll be interested to see if it's just needing more chorine. I look forward to gaining more understanding of the science although, yes, it is overwhelming. I will update my signature. great point!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    While you probably don't need to have them rinse off before entering the pool, it may be a good idea to have them put on proper swimming attire. I'm not sure about the detergent in their street cloths - but it is much harder to swim while fully clothed. Maybe wearing proper swimming attire needs to be added to your "pool rules".

    As far as this way not being simple and easy - let me put it in my wife's words - "You've never spent such little time and effort on the pool. And the water has never looked so good!!" That about says it all. I spend less than 5 minutes a day during swim season checking on the pool - plus about 20 minutes once a week brushing, etc. I'm at the point now (after fully embracing the TFP methods for about a year) where I can tell what my pool needs even before I test with my testkit. You can be there too, after the initial learning curve and clearing up the algae.

    Your SWCG is more than able to keep up with normal daily demand... except during an algae bloom. Algae eats chlorine faster than your cell can make it. That's the reason for the need to add additional bleach/chlorine (along with bather load, bather waste, orgainics, etc - but we can discuss those later). In your case, I'm pretty sure a SLAM will be needed do to your algae condition. Of course, you can't start until you have a proper testkit. Think of the testkit as an investment in your pool and your sanity rather than an additional expense.

    Hang in there and we will help you get your pool back in shape.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    thanks so much, again, I really appreciate it.
    gallons=14,400
    salt cell= Hayward Turbo cell T Cell-15
    I never thought I'd have to add chlorine to a pool with that size cell. Although we have had some neighborhood kid in the pool already this season plus I have 3 of my own They jump in fully clothed and although we use all natural laundry soap someone mentioned the laundry detergents... effecting the pool, too. I'm also wondering if I should really start having people rinse off before hopping into the pool. I'd rather not have to, but something else that I'm sure contributes.

    The reason I think the cell could be defective is that even though we cleaned it last week and it didn't have much calcium in it, even after running it 100% (superchlorinator) from 5:45pm last night to 3pm today chlorine still was only at 2.0.

    I'll try to read through everything tonight and order the test kit then. I like the idea of the pb saying keep it simple and with all the things to look at in this method it doesn't sound simple, although it's not simple to have a green pool. It'll be interested to see if it's just needing more chorine. I look forward to gaining more understanding of the science although, yes, it is overwhelming. I will update my signature. great point!

    Also, looking back I noticed I did not respond about the water valve. From the angle I'm at it's at zero when filter is on high and it's not on pause. Today only one pop up is popping up, just 1/4 inch or so.
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    Also, looking back I noticed I did not respond about the water valve. From the angle I'm at it's at zero when filter is on high and it's not on pause. Today only one pop up is popping up, just 1/4 inch or so.
    You may wish to have the PB service guy check that out too. Although, a full filter clean/recharge and a bit of tweaking of the valves at the equipment pad may help remedy that situation. Have him show you how to open up the water distribution valve, just so you will know how should you ever need to. Still, since he's already there, pick his brain on all your equipment.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    thanku! I'm reading and trying to learn more about the method. For now is it really hard to say about how much chlorine I should add without me having the kit, yet? I've had my salt cell on super chlorinator for 32 hrs now. I guess i'll go put it on the normal setting now but it's a shame to run it so long and still see only 2.0 and dirt on the floor. I have to run to the pool store tomorrow so when the pool guy comes I can at least say we brought the water to the store and the salt cell is not easy to get off so i'll decide with my husband if we should bother because of what you say with algae eating chlorine faster than the cell can make it, maybe it's not a bad cell. Although it would create peace of mind to know. thx!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    It's difficult to know how much chlorine to add as you don't have a reliable CYA reading. Did you order the TF100 yet? If you order it today, it should ship on Monday afternoon. You may receive it Wednesday or Thursday as I believe it's sent USPS Priority Mail (2-3 day service).

    Your pool volume is approximately 14,000 gallons. If you add 1/2 gallon of 8.25% bleach it will raise your chlorine level by 3 ppm in your 14k gallon pool. If it were me, I'd add 1/2 gallon of 8.25% bleach until my testkit arrives - then move forward with a SLAM once I have reliable test results from my own kit. And, at least until the testkit arrives and you start your SLAM, I'd also leave the SWCG on. This will hopefully help the algae issue from getting too much worse until you can begin a proper SLAM.

    I don't mean to come across as blunt or gruff - but you've been a member here for almost a year and a half and had water in your pool for almost a year. I've gone back and read a few of your previous posts from last year. In those, you've mentioned algae before, so this is not a new issue. Whatever you have been doing in the past to eradicate the algae doesn't seem to be working. You're the only one who can decide if it's time to take control of your pool or let it continue to control you. We can only offer you a better, easier, more cost effective and safer way for you and your family to enjoy a properly sanitized pool.

    Oh, please also have the PB tech check the SWCG flow switch for proper function - on BOTH pump high speed and low speed. While the SWCG is most likely producing chlorine on high speed, it may not be able to produce any on the low speed setting. The cell requires a certain amount of water flow before it will produce chlorine.

    Please consider updating your signature with make and model numbers for all your equipment - pump, filter, SWCG, etc.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    proavia, thank you for your replies and I can handle blunt. Not to make an excuse, but to explain my situation, my husband wanted to be the pool guy so now I'm gently trying to take over the job or/and educate both of us differently. He really did not take care of the pool even how the pb recommended and I think he's gone weeks without adding muratic acid in the winter and even yesterday when I asked he said he thinks it's been a week or 2. I am the one who ends up noticing pool issues even though I'm not the one "taking care of the pool" and with my personality wanting to do things right and learn it then causes me to start researching. We have children with special needs and I have family in town, and I got stuck reading another thread that is helping me understand the method, so my apologies for my late reply and I didn't see the past 2 msgs before pb came out today. Hubbie has wanted to wait to see what pb said to do anything but he did finally start reading "why does it work" thread last night. got the cell checked at Leslies and they said it works but unfortunately I didn't see your last msg in time to ask him to check the swcg flow switch. pb also didn't want to show me anything regarding the water valve. He said I should never touch it, call them, and it seems like he was in a hurry to go. I got some info, but limited. He said my pool runs at 18 pressure. when i look at the DE filter pressure gage the green arrow is on 17, the read arrow is on 28 and now that we cleaned the DE filter it's at 15. Given your recommendation to backwash, if he's right and it runs at 18, when it gets 20-25% over the clean pressure, it's seeming to me we need to backwash when it gets to 22% if I"m doing math right. but if I am looking at the black arrow it says 15, the math would be different, not the mention how to do the math. Am I measuring the number between 15 or 18 to 28 or to 100%?

    pb gave a good tip for another way to see when filter needs to be cleaned/backwashed. He said if the pump basket doesn't look like it has water in it I it's clean. He said when he came over mine was 3/4 the way down. I know tfp also has tips on how to care for equipment which I will be researching.

    Initially I was on this site to plan the building of the pool and I did not get into the taking care aspect of it as I allowed my husband to give it a shot. I've made some mistakes even on this site as I have learned not to hijack posts and I also know people (especially men, lol) don't like to give advice if someone is not going to take it, so I thank you for spending all of this time with me while I try to explore if this is the method for us. You are gracious. Even though my husband did not take care of the pool the pb or pool store's way, what I am reading is starting to slowly make sense. Hubbies is dead set on adding shock tonight and algae sides as the pb recommended. I called Leslies and he recommended to wait on algae sides and last time we had algae we just shocked it so hopefully my husband will be ok with just shocking it today and then seeing from there. In my weekend with visitors, waiting for husband to read, too... I haven't bought the kit. Initially with a lifetime membership I believe there was a discount if I remember correctly, but maybe I can't buy the kit here, anymore? I think my husband may agree to buying the kit and agreeing to trying this method, especially since at this point, soon, I will just end up diving in and taking over but for today he's shocking it. My goal now is to make sure this never happens again and learn more about this method. Thanks so much and I will also continue to change my signature. There is a limit in how much info is needed, maybe now that the pool is built the equipment is the most important, not what kind of pavers it has, how big the baja shelf is and those kinds of things women find so important. thanks, again!
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    found answer to when to clean filter on tfp site:
    15 PSI Clean Filter pressure -> Clean filter when pressure rises to 18-19 PSI
    20 PSI Clean Filter pressure -> Clean filter when pressure rises to 25 PSI
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    proavia, also, we are neighbors. I'm at 44th/Elliot. where do u get your 8.25% bleach?
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorsgal View Post
    proavia, thank you for your replies and I can handle blunt. Not to make an excuse, but to explain my situation, my husband wanted to be the pool guy so now I'm gently trying to take over the job or/and educate both of us differently. He really did not take care of the pool even how the pb recommended and I think he's gone weeks without adding muratic acid in the winter and even yesterday when I asked he said he thinks it's been a week or 2. I am the one who ends up noticing pool issues even though I'm not the one "taking care of the pool" and with my personality wanting to do things right and learn it then causes me to start researching. We have children with special needs and I have family in town, and I got stuck reading another thread that is helping me understand the method, so my apologies for my late reply and I didn't see the past 2 msgs before pb came out today. Hubbie has wanted to wait to see what pb said to do anything but he did finally start reading "why does it work" thread last night. got the cell checked at Leslies and they said it works but unfortunately I didn't see your last msg in time to ask him to check the swcg flow switch. pb also didn't want to show me anything regarding the water valve. He said I should never touch it, call them, and it seems like he was in a hurry to go. I got some info, but limited. He said my pool runs at 18 pressure. when i look at the DE filter pressure gage the green arrow is on 17, the read arrow is on 28 and now that we cleaned the DE filter it's at 15. Given your recommendation to backwash, if he's right and it runs at 18, when it gets 20-25% over the clean pressure, it's seeming to me we need to backwash when it gets to 22% if I"m doing math right. but if I am looking at the black arrow it says 15, the math would be different, not the mention how to do the math. Am I measuring the number between 15 or 18 to 28 or to 100%?

    pb gave a good tip for another way to see when filter needs to be cleaned/backwashed. He said if the pump basket doesn't look like it has water in it I it's clean. He said when he came over mine was 3/4 the way down. I know tfp also has tips on how to care for equipment which I will be researching.

    Initially I was on this site to plan the building of the pool and I did not get into the taking care aspect of it as I allowed my husband to give it a shot. I've made some mistakes even on this site as I have learned not to hijack posts and I also know people (especially men, lol) don't like to give advice if someone is not going to take it, so I thank you for spending all of this time with me while I try to explore if this is the method for us. You are gracious. Even though my husband did not take care of the pool the pb or pool store's way, what I am reading is starting to slowly make sense. Hubbies is dead set on adding shock tonight and algae sides as the pb recommended. I called Leslies and he recommended to wait on algae sides and last time we had algae we just shocked it so hopefully my husband will be ok with just shocking it today and then seeing from there. In my weekend with visitors, waiting for husband to read, too... I haven't bought the kit. Initially with a lifetime membership I believe there was a discount if I remember correctly, but maybe I can't buy the kit here, anymore? I think my husband may agree to buying the kit and agreeing to trying this method, especially since at this point, soon, I will just end up diving in and taking over but for today he's shocking it. My goal now is to make sure this never happens again and learn more about this method. Thanks so much and I will also continue to change my signature. There is a limit in how much info is needed, maybe now that the pool is built the equipment is the most important, not what kind of pavers it has, how big the baja shelf is and those kinds of things women find so important. thanks, again!
    This is a little difficult to follow since so many people have been weighing in. Are you local in AZ? I had a variable speed pump specialist come and test my setup. He does it for the Srp rebates. Or it's 50 bucks. He set up you pump to run at the right rpm based on pressures to maximize your pump efficiency and in floor system. It was so worth it, he said that he runs into new builds all the time that have plumbing issues that prevent maximum efficiency from the pump and in floor. PM me and I can send you his info.

    I recently installed a Infloor in my new pool and we love it. You cannot feel suction from the main drain but my leaf vac canister is full of debris about ever 2 weeks.
    Freeform /620 Surface/110 perimeter/20k gal/ Raised bond beam/Baja shelf (2)//Pentair- Intelliflo VS pump, Pentair Whisperflo 1hp// Easytouch, C&C 520 Cartridge, Intellichlor SWCG// A&A- Magnasweep in-floor, LeafVac, Venturi Skimmer,// Mini-pebble (Aqua Blue w abalone shell)//4 Pentair Globrite LEDs//3 sheer descents//Travertine coping and decking.

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorsgal View Post
    proavia, also, we are neighbors. I'm at 44th/Elliot. where do u get your 8.25% bleach?
    I'm near Cooper and Ray in Chandler.
    You can get 8.25% bleach at Walmart in the laundry isle - they usually have a good turnover rate so it's fresh. Also, they have "Pool Essentials Chlorinating Liquid" - which is 10%. It's usually located near sporting goods and toys - at least at my Walmart. Comparing the 8.25% to the 10% - pricewise the 10% is cheaper at the current price of $2.50/gallon and it's slightly stronger too (so you need less to attain a given chlorine level). The 8.25% is just under $3.00/gallon for 121oz (7oz short of a full gallon). The 10% is the stuff I've been using since it went on rollback as it's more cost effective.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    My responses are in Blue as it seemed easier to separate out parts of your post to more directly respond to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorsgal View Post
    proavia, thank you for your replies and I can handle blunt. Not to make an excuse, but to explain my situation, my husband wanted to be the pool guy so now I'm gently trying to take over the job or/and educate both of us differently. He really did not take care of the pool even how the pb recommended and I think he's gone weeks without adding muratic acid in the winter and even yesterday when I asked he said he thinks it's been a week or 2. I am the one who ends up noticing pool issues even though I'm not the one "taking care of the pool" and with my personality wanting to do things right and learn it then causes me to start researching. We have children with special needs and I have family in town, and I got stuck reading another thread that is helping me understand the method, so my apologies for my late reply and I didn't see the past 2 msgs before pb came out today. Hubbie has wanted to wait to see what pb said to do anything but he did finally start reading "why does it work" thread last night. got the cell checked at Leslies and they said it works but unfortunately I didn't see your last msg in time to ask him to check the swcg flow switch.
    Sometimes it's hard enough to get one person to believe in the TFP way - and more difficult to get both a husband and wife on the same page in regards to the TFP way. One willing to try and the other not will definitely not work for getting control of your pool back. Sometimes it just takes blind faith - and knowing what you've been doing isn't working. Pool care isn't rocket science and doesn't require a bunch of time (once your numbers are dialed in).

    pb also didn't want to show me anything regarding the water valve. He said I should never touch it, call them, and it seems like he was in a hurry to go.
    Well that certainly doesn't surprise me. More $$$ in their pocket every time you "need" to call them out. Sad that they're in a hurry - both to take your $$$ and not teach you how to maintain your own equipment. BUT - we're here to help with all that.

    I got some info, but limited. He said my pool runs at 18 pressure. when i look at the DE filter pressure gage the green arrow is on 17, the read arrow is on 28 and now that we cleaned the DE filter it's at 15. Given your recommendation to backwash, if he's right and it runs at 18, when it gets 20-25% over the clean pressure, it's seeming to me we need to backwash when it gets to 22% if I"m doing math right. but if I am looking at the black arrow it says 15, the math would be different, not the mention how to do the math. Am I measuring the number between 15 or 18 to 28 or to 100%?
    On the Hayward filter gauge, there is a black knob in the middle which moves the red and green lines (at least I think they are red & green, mine have faded over the years). The thinner black line is the present filter pressure. You can set the lower line on the adjustment knob to the clean pressure for reference. Realize that the gauge reading will fluctuate based on pump rpm too - at a lower speed, the gauge will read lower.

    pb gave a good tip for another way to see when filter needs to be cleaned/backwashed. He said if the pump basket doesn't look like it has water in it I it's clean. He said when he came over mine was 3/4 the way down. I know tfp also has tips on how to care for equipment which I will be researching.
    That's one I haven't heard before - I'll let someone better versed in that confirm or deny. I always thought that if pump is running on high speed and it's not full, that usually means there is a suction side air leak (usually in the pump basket lid - easily fixed)

    Initially I was on this site to plan the building of the pool and I did not get into the taking care aspect of it as I allowed my husband to give it a shot. I've made some mistakes even on this site as I have learned not to hijack posts and I also know people (especially men, lol) don't like to give advice if someone is not going to take it, so I thank you for spending all of this time with me while I try to explore if this is the method for us. You are gracious. Even though my husband did not take care of the pool the pb or pool store's way, what I am reading is starting to slowly make sense. Hubbies is dead set on adding shock tonight and algae sides as the pb recommended. I called Leslies and he recommended to wait on algae sides and last time we had algae we just shocked it so hopefully my husband will be ok with just shocking it today and then seeing from there. In my weekend with visitors, waiting for husband to read, too... I haven't bought the kit. Initially with a lifetime membership I believe there was a discount if I remember correctly, but maybe I can't buy the kit here, anymore? I think my husband may agree to buying the kit and agreeing to trying this method, especially since at this point, soon, I will just end up diving in and taking over but for today he's shocking it. My goal now is to make sure this never happens again and learn more about this method.
    Well, since you opened the door about "blunt" being okay...... Since you've already allowed your husband to give it a shot, just tell him it's YOUR turn now. Sounds fair to me!
    Adding shock is more likely than not going to add CYA to your pool. And since we don't have a reliable number for CYA, I'd bet yours is probably high already. I kinda laughed at your "(especially men...)" comment -- My wife says I will continue to try to get my point across until I'm blue in the face - even as she's walking away from me.

    As for the discount on the testkit with a contribution to TFP - when you initially donated, they sent you an email with the discount code. If you don't have it, I'd recommend PM "Leebo" (our faithful webmaster) - and or email/call TFTestkits.net directly to see if they have record of it or can reissue one to you. Hopefully one or both can set you up.


    Thanks so much and I will also continue to change my signature. There is a limit in how much info is needed, maybe now that the pool is built the equipment is the most important, not what kind of pavers it has, how big the baja shelf is and those kinds of things women find so important. thanks, again!
    Your most welcome! Your signature is the last thing to worry about now - let's get that pool clean!
    BTW - I have been following your other thread - But didn't consider posting there at least until you replied in this thread.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    Quote Originally Posted by proavia View Post
    I'm near Cooper and Ray in Chandler.
    You can get 8.25% bleach at Walmart in the laundry isle - they usually have a good turnover rate so it's fresh. Also, they have "Pool Essentials Chlorinating Liquid" - which is 10%. It's usually located near sporting goods and toys - at least at my Walmart. Comparing the 8.25% to the 10% - pricewise the 10% is cheaper at the current price of $2.50/gallon and it's slightly stronger too (so you need less to attain a given chlorine level). The 8.25% is just under $3.00/gallon for 121oz (7oz short of a full gallon). The 10% is the stuff I've been using since it went on rollback as it's more cost effective.
    thanks! going back and forth to the store is the last thing I want to spend my time doing but I know I need it fresh. How many gallons should I pick up? How often will I be using them? my husband just threw in 2 packages of granular chlor-brite from pool store tonight. I sent the msg off for the kit so I can get the discount and order it ASAP.
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    proavia, thanks for all the blue writing. so nice that you're thorough and I'm grateful that you don't mind repeating yourself, although it sounds as your wife does. ha ha. I'm much more thorough at getting my point across than my husband appreciates, too. ha ha.
    I'm going slow with my limited time in reading on the forum, but little by little, I'll get there. I haven't even checked back to that other post u mentioned, but I will.

    as far as reliable readings, not sure how reliable Leslies pools is but this is what they gave us for readings on Sunday:

    Test range condition result
    FAC 1-4 ppm low 0
    TAC .2 difference Low 0
    Salt 2500-3500 ppm High 3400
    CYA 60-99 ppm low 30 (this was not what you guessed. will look forward to your response on this)
    TA 80-120 ppm high 130
    pH 7.2 - 7.8 hich 8
    Acid Demand
    Copper should be 0 ppm ok 0
    Iron " " ok 0
    Pho below 100 ppb high
    temp ok 85
    40' x 12' IG shotcrete (3 1/2' 5, 4'), Hayward variable spd pumpSP3400VSP, Paramount PV3 in-floor, venturi skimmer, 14,400 glns, Hayward Turbo salt cell T Cell-15, UV, Hayward DE filter, model DE4820, 2 Hayward Color Logic 320 LED color lights, Hayward P4 w puck. 2" line to in-floor valve (46'), deck mount canister parascoping fountain, leaf canister, Marbella, pebble. new build 6-24-15

  20. Back To Top    #20
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    Re: main drain has dirt and debri sitting in the bottom-no suction?

    I know you'd like to keep your chlorine consumption down, and weekly brushing will help with that even in a clean pool. Brushing dislodges algae and breaks the biofilm as it forms, wherever algae may be getting a start in areas of low circulation. Another tool in toolbox! Lots of people brush weekly, or have a robot with brushes, and touch up with the manual brush.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, CCL, and Aussie 4in1 (HTH); Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWC 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; prior pool AG 10k | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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