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Thread: Borates inquiry

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    Borates inquiry

    Hi,

    Could someone chime in on the difference between boric acid vs pool proof? Any adv or disadv? How soon after putting either can one swim?

    Also, would you recommend borates?

    Borates vs Salt;
    what would make the water feel more easier on the skin? Borates or adding pool salt? Could I do both?

    Thank you,
    g3lo
    23K gal (I think), IG vinyl lagoona, Sta-Rite Hi-Rate Sand Filter T-240BP-1, Pentair Superflo VS 1.5 Pump (342001), June 2007, Taylor K-2006, Hayward Chlorine Feeder CL220, Water source from garden hose w/ water restrictions | 1HP Sta-Rite DYNA-GLAS MPRA6E-147L single speed pump

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    Re: Borates inquiry

    Not sure about pool proof probably expensive borates, most on this site either use 20 mule team borax or order in bulk if you do go the bulk route granules are preferred as the powder tends to fly around and cause a mess. A pool your size will need 1300 oz. or 81 LB to get to 50ppm, you want to target 30–50 ppm. Amazon sells a 6 pack or 390 oz. total of 20 mule for $39.21.
    Most of the threads I read around water feel or skin issues usually recommend salt. I have no idea if it is because salt is better when it comes to feel or if it is just that it’s less expensive and easer to deal with I suspect it’s a bit of both. You can do both in fact even if you don’t actively add salt over time you will build up some in the water from MA and chlorine.
    I added borates a couple of months ago and the water defiantly feels better and as many have commented it sparkles. We swam the day after it was added but that was mainly due to it being the end of the day when I added. Once it is all dissolved and your pH is back in range you can jump in, I would say a couple of hours with the pump running to be safe.
    I would recommend borates, we like the look, feel, stable pH, and it seems to have reduced the back swimmers we get in the pool before we added there would be 5 or 6 of them in the pool at any one time now I see one once in a while.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Borates inquiry

    Salt feels better on skin and eyes because people are salty so it more closely matches our biological properties. Yes, you can do both. I also have borates and agree that it does make a noticeable difference. Some say/think it doesn't. I'm not sure why it seems so subjective. I suppose because everyone's pool water and skin is different. Some people like the feel of hard water and others prefer soft water. I use 20 Team Mule Borax from the grocery store and muriatic acid to add borates to my pool.

    Have you seen this article?
    Borates - Why and How
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Borates inquiry

    Pool Proof is just disodium octaborate tetrahydrate (Na2B8O13 4H2O). It's an alkaline borate salt that can be made up into a concentrated solution so it looks like clear corn syrup. Its just another (more expensive way) to add borates. Once this product dissolves into water, it will form borates the same way 20 Mule Team borax or boric acid does. Your just paying extra for the labeling.

    As far as salt versus borates go, both will soften the feel of water but salt will have no effect on pH stability while borates are excellent buffers against pH rise. So you get extra benefits from borates that salt alone does not have.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Borates inquiry

    I feel I want to try the salt route but am very busy as I work late hours. Could I use the boric acid as an alternative to the tedious borax method?

    or, any other products you would recommend for ease of borates addition?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Try the borate route***
    23K gal (I think), IG vinyl lagoona, Sta-Rite Hi-Rate Sand Filter T-240BP-1, Pentair Superflo VS 1.5 Pump (342001), June 2007, Taylor K-2006, Hayward Chlorine Feeder CL220, Water source from garden hose w/ water restrictions | 1HP Sta-Rite DYNA-GLAS MPRA6E-147L single speed pump

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Borates inquiry

    Boric acid is generally much easier to use. It is a weak acid so it only lowers the pH a small amount as opposed to borax which raises the pH a lot thus necessitating the addition of muriatic acid prior to adding it.

    If you post a full set of your latest test results, we can better advise you.
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Borates inquiry

    Yes, boric acid is easier and is certainly fine to use.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Borates inquiry

    I'll post results after work tonight. Is it true I should get the ph and TA in line prior to adding boric acid?
    23K gal (I think), IG vinyl lagoona, Sta-Rite Hi-Rate Sand Filter T-240BP-1, Pentair Superflo VS 1.5 Pump (342001), June 2007, Taylor K-2006, Hayward Chlorine Feeder CL220, Water source from garden hose w/ water restrictions | 1HP Sta-Rite DYNA-GLAS MPRA6E-147L single speed pump

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Borates inquiry

    Yes, tis true. What is your TA? And does your PH rise? How often do you add acid? Every few day? Once a week?
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Re: Borates inquiry

    Ta 115
    ph 7.7-7.8
    cya 55-60
    cc - 0
    fc - 5
    ch - 150

    - - - Updated - - -

    I am not sure how often PH raises as I have not yet had a chance to see it using the BBB method, just finished SLAMing my pool successfully and had it on maintenance mode for the 2nd day now.
    23K gal (I think), IG vinyl lagoona, Sta-Rite Hi-Rate Sand Filter T-240BP-1, Pentair Superflo VS 1.5 Pump (342001), June 2007, Taylor K-2006, Hayward Chlorine Feeder CL220, Water source from garden hose w/ water restrictions | 1HP Sta-Rite DYNA-GLAS MPRA6E-147L single speed pump

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Borates inquiry

    Your TA needs to come down. I would suggest you get it to 80ppm at the very least BEFORE you add any borates. All other parameters are fine.

    How stable is your pH? How often do you add acid?
    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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