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Thread: Few critical questions

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    Few critical questions

    First pool owner, still going through the now one week long pool opening process. I have a few general questions, outside the pool opening. Apologies if these are really 101 type of questions to all of you. Pictures attached.

    1. The water is still greenish-blue and murky. The only thing I have added so far is bleach, no other chemicals. Pool guy says concrete pools never get blue - true??

    2. Pump/filter on/off issue. I have been turning the pump / filter on/off using the circuit breaker box (switching on/off). Is that the proper way of powering the system up and down given my set-up? I do have the manual timers (but have no idea how to set those up.

    3. The large size return on the size of the pool (10 skimmer size) is what I have used to attache the suction vacuum (Mars). It hasn't worked that great, but my question is about the return itself: is it supposed to be opened at all times even when not using the vacuum? I noticed the pump/filter are very loud but much quiter when the vacuum is plugged into the wall....

    4. Lights -- they're there but are not working. Any leads on how to change them?

    THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    12x30x5, IG, 14000 gal., concrete, 1.0 hp Stealth SHPF pump, Booster pump, Jandy Lite 2 heater, Taylor K-2006C test kit

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Few critical questions

    Hello and welcome to TFP! I'll try to help you with your questions:
    1 - Water should be crystal clear with no haze or cloudiness. Anything other than clear indicates the presence of organics or algae. Can you post a set of test results with one of the recommended test kits (either a TF-100 or Taylor K-2006?) If not, you should make that your first priority. It's that important.
    2 - Pumps can be operated many ways depending upon how they were wired. Some are just manually turned-on via a switch at the back of the pump, others are on timers. Those timers you have are the same I have on my septic system. First thing you do is turn the dial to set it to the correct time as indicated by that small white triangle. Once you have it on the current time, then those small "pegs" can be pulled-out or pushed-in to whatever time you want the pump to receive power.
    3 - I don't know why the pump would seem louder if the vacuum wasn't attached. It would still be pulling-in water at that location. But usually when not is use, people either turn-off the pump to that item or close a 3-way valve and not bother with pulling water from there when not in use.
    4 - If your light (from the pic) are the standard large lights (i.e. 500 watts), they usually have something like one screw at the top or bottom of the retaining band that holds it in. Then you can remove the whole fixture, clean behind in the niche, and replace the bulb. But you would want to check the circuit to make sure it is indeed a bulb and not a power problem to the lights.

    Hope this helps.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    TFP Guide


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    Re: Few critical questions

    Welcome to TFP,

    2 - Here's a bit more info on your timers...

    Open following link for setting Intermatic/Grasslin FM1 timer setting instructions:
    To set the 24-hour analog timer, you need to move 4 consecutive tripper pins for each hour of run time.
    So for 6 am to 6 pm, 48 trippers pins will be moved outward and 48 inward.
    http://waterheatertimer.org/pdf/How-...FM1-timers.pdf

    Open following link for Intermatic FM1 series and PB series modular timers with wiring, manuals, model numbers and instructions for setting.
    Intermatic trippers and parts
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Few critical questions

    Thanks for the answers. I will post test results soon, in the meantime should I continue adding bleach and vacuuming?

    Re - large size return on the size of the pool used to connect the vacuum... It seems that is one of the principal ways filtered water get back int he pool (?). Woudl it be OK to just block it off with a winter plug or would my pump explode?? I have nothing else to block of this strong stream of open incoming water into the pool - is this normal?
    12x30x5, IG, 14000 gal., concrete, 1.0 hp Stealth SHPF pump, Booster pump, Jandy Lite 2 heater, Taylor K-2006C test kit

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    TFP Guide


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    Re: Few critical questions

    Maybe a few pictures of your equipment (filter, pump, valves, etc.) would help us provide more specific replies.

    The place where you connect a vacuum is a suction port - it sucks water FROM the pool. If it's a pressure-side cleaner port, it may return water TO the pool from the pump/filter. Again, a few pics of that item and the equipment will better help us.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Re: Few critical questions

    Pictures of the system: https://goo.gl/photos/A6G43GG4TbWo2X5q8

    Nothing is marked up on the valves, but I assume the valve by the main pump turns on/off skimmers and main drain, while the other valve is for the Frog system (?), although I'm not using those cartridges.

    Bottom line is it ok to close off that side port when not in use? I don't actually have a fitting flap to close it but the pressure of water coming out of it is so great I am afraid it would be in the way of swimming. Right now it's just an open skimmer sized hole.... with no protection when filter is in use it squirts water INTO the pool really rapidly and hard pressure. Based on the pictures, is there a way to control that side port anyway? Thanks.
    12x30x5, IG, 14000 gal., concrete, 1.0 hp Stealth SHPF pump, Booster pump, Jandy Lite 2 heater, Taylor K-2006C test kit

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    June just tested water first time still hoping to open pool need HELP.

    This is day 7 after taking off the winter cover. Pool is cloudy and still green.
    Please help me balance my pool - first time pool owner.
    These are my readings:

    FC 11.6
    CC 0.8
    PH 7.0 (could be a bit lower, needed 6 drops of Base Demand R-0006 to get it to 7.2-7.4 level...)
    TA 80
    CH 240
    CYA near 0 (filled to the top, could still see the black dot, so I'm assuming minimal)

    WHAT TO DO? NEWBIE here.
    12x30x5, IG, 14000 gal., concrete, 1.0 hp Stealth SHPF pump, Booster pump, Jandy Lite 2 heater, Taylor K-2006C test kit

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    Re: Few critical questions

    Here are my readings - FC and Calcium are out of whack, and I have not enough CYA? Correct?

    FC 11.6
    CC 0.8
    PH 7.0 (could be a bit lower, needed 6 drops of Base Demand R-0006 to get it to 7.2-7.4 level...)
    TA 80
    CH 240
    CYA near 0 (filled to the top, could still see the black dot, so I'm assuming minimal)
    12x30x5, IG, 14000 gal., concrete, 1.0 hp Stealth SHPF pump, Booster pump, Jandy Lite 2 heater, Taylor K-2006C test kit

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    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Few critical questions

    That looks to be a dedicated pressure side cleaner pump and line going back to your pool. When not needed, I would just leave it off. Not sure if they make a flap or cover for your fitting in the pool.

    Since your water is cloudy and your CC is elevated, we can bet you need to "SLAM" (link below). Your best bet right now would be to ensure you increase CYA to "30" and keep FC at "12" 24/7 with pump running. Follow all of the instructions on the SLAM page and it will work fine for you. If you still have some concerns about the SLAM or your equipment let us know and we'll try to help.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: June just tested water first time still hoping to open pool need HELP.

    Cloudy & green generally means a TFP "SLAM" link below. If you follow the instructions on that page carefully and stay consistent with testing FC with your K-2006, you'll do fine. Before starting, make sure the pH isn't too low - 7.2 would be ideal. Then get a sock soaking with stabilizer for a target of "30"
    To increase CYA via granular stabilizer, place the required amount as calculated by the Poolmath calculator into a white sock and place in the poolside skimmer basket. For those concerned about suction flow to the pump, suspending the sock near a return jet or from a floating device will also suffice. Best never to allow undissolved granules to rest directly against the pool surface. Squeeze the sock periodically to help it dissipate. Once dissolved, consider your CYA adjusted to that programmed (target) level. CYA test readings should show a rise in 24-48 hours, however some pools may experience a longer delay to fully register. Best to confirm final CYA in about 5-7 days before adding any more stabilizer/conditioner.
    Then maintain an FC of 12 and follow the SLAM page. It might takes a few days, or even a week or more, but it will work. The better you keep FC at 12 the more efficient the SLAM works in your favor. Good luck!
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

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    Re: Few critical questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    That looks to be a dedicated pressure side cleaner pump and line going back to your pool. When not needed, I would just leave it off. Not sure if they make a flap or cover for your fitting in the pool.

    Since your water is cloudy and your CC is elevated, we can bet you need to "SLAM" (link below). Your best bet right now would be to ensure you increase CYA to "30" and keep FC at "12" 24/7 with pump running. Follow all of the instructions on the SLAM page and it will work fine for you. If you still have some concerns about the SLAM or your equipment let us know and we'll try to help.
    Re- dedicated pressure side cleaner pump... Are you referencing the 'Booster Pump'? There is no valve there so how could I turn it off? That's by the equipment, and in the pool itself, could I just plug it in with winter plug? Or would that lead to pressure issues? Sorry, newbie here... Just wondering if my pipes explode if I block it off...

    And is there a list of items I will need to get to follow the SLAM process? Do I need to raise the ph level or is it passable? And do I need to increase CYA if my FC is high?
    12x30x5, IG, 14000 gal., concrete, 1.0 hp Stealth SHPF pump, Booster pump, Jandy Lite 2 heater, Taylor K-2006C test kit

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    Re: Few critical questions

    Pat is correct, that looks like a dedicated pressure side pump at the equipment pad - the pump/motor closest to the filter. If you shut that pump completely off (via a switch or timer), is the flow from the large side port as great? If the flow is diminished, just turn that pump off and disable it from any timer system you have in place. I would NOT block that large side port off - at least not until you are sure of what it's attached to.

    Also, have you attempted to SLOWLY turn the Jandy valve attached to that white contraption? If you turn it toward in either direction, what happens as far as return water flow into the pool.

    Here is what you need to know about the SLAM process: Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
    I would allow the FC to drop below 10 and then adjust the pH to 7.2 Be aware, with an FC above 10, the pH reads falsely high - and since you're already above 10, it could be lower than 7.0 already.

    As for the CYA - yes, you do need to add enough to get you to 30. If the CYA is below that, the FC will burn off very quickly from the sun. Is the view tube on the CYA test completely clear or a little cloudy when doing the test? If clear, add an additional 30 for the CYA - if a little cloudy, add an additional 20 for the CYA (as cloudy means there is some in there, just not enough to get a precise reading on the tube. Using Pool Math for your 14k gallon pool yields 37oz to add 20 and 56oz to add 30 (granular CYA/stabilizer). Once you add it in a sock to the skimmer or hang in front of a return, dose the chlorine for the SLAM shock level as if the CYA is already dissolved in the water. Use the Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart to see what your shock level for the SLAM is.

    EDIT:

    See Pat's response in your other thread too.... (sorry, didn't know you had two threads going )
    June just tested water first time still hoping to open pool need HELP.
    Gene
    ​12,300 gal IG play pool - Pebbletec - built 10/1999 || Hayward S360SX 36" sand filter || Hayward Ecostar SP3400 VSP || A&A In-Floor cleaning system || Quik Water Leveler || Quik Dek-clor (limited use)
    TF-100 testkit / Speedstir - A good test kit is not an expense, it's an investment

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    Re: Few critical questions

    Here are my reading today -- added some bleach yesterday and FC is shooting thru the roof. Everything else looks good? What to do??FC 19CC 0.5PH 7.2TA 80CH 240CYA 30
    12x30x5, IG, 14000 gal., concrete, 1.0 hp Stealth SHPF pump, Booster pump, Jandy Lite 2 heater, Taylor K-2006C test kit

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    Re: June just tested water first time still hoping to open pool need HELP.

    Here are my readings today -- added some bleach yesterday and FC is shooting thru the roof. Everything else looks good? What to do??

    FC 19
    CC 0.5
    PH 7.2
    TA 80
    CH 240
    CYA 30
    12x30x5, IG, 14000 gal., concrete, 1.0 hp Stealth SHPF pump, Booster pump, Jandy Lite 2 heater, Taylor K-2006C test kit

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    Re: June just tested water first time still hoping to open pool need HELP.

    Okay, not bad numbers at all. You can let the FC drop tomorrow when the sun comes back out. No need to go over an FC of 12. That's really the only thing to test right now, so try to stay consistent with that FC and everything listed on the SLAM page. It takes time, but the SLAM will work. Once you get to a point where the water is crystal clear and your CC remain at 0.5 or less, then we'll have you do an overnight (OCLT) test. But for now, keep doing what you're doing.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: June just tested water first time still hoping to open pool need HELP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Splash View Post
    Okay, not bad numbers at all. You can let the FC drop tomorrow when the sun comes back out. No need to go over an FC of 12. That's really the only thing to test right now, so try to stay consistent with that FC and everything listed on the SLAM page. It takes time, but the SLAM will work. Once you get to a point where the water is crystal clear and your CC remain at 0.5 or less, then we'll have you do an overnight (OCLT) test. But for now, keep doing what you're doing.
    Encouraging!... So do NOT add any more bleach until FC drops back to below 12? Just keep on testing FC and CC for now? And pump filter should still be on 24/7? THANKS.
    12x30x5, IG, 14000 gal., concrete, 1.0 hp Stealth SHPF pump, Booster pump, Jandy Lite 2 heater, Taylor K-2006C test kit

  17. Back To Top    #17
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    Re: June just tested water first time still hoping to open pool need HELP.

    That's correct. Your CYA of 30 dictates a SLAM/Shock FC of 12. Going too high just lends itself to waste and isn't all that productive. An FC of 12 is perfect for you at this time.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: June just tested water first time still hoping to open pool need HELP.

    Well, I did add some bleach yesterday... But my FC levels are NOT going down... Just WAIT??? Keep the pump running 24/7 too - does that help with FC levels or not... I was really hoping pool would be ready to swim in by this weekend...


    FC 22
    CC 0.5
    PH 7.2
    TA 90
    CH 240
    CYA 30
    12x30x5, IG, 14000 gal., concrete, 1.0 hp Stealth SHPF pump, Booster pump, Jandy Lite 2 heater, Taylor K-2006C test kit

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Texas Splash's Avatar
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    Re: Few critical questions

    So it's been 3 days when your last FC was 19, and now it's 22? Humm. Something seems odd there. Do you have any other chlorine producing devise in the pool (floaters, in-line chlorinator, etc)? Have you added any chlorine or products at all?

    How are you testing (10ml sample, 25 ml sample)? And how are you dividing or multiplying the results from the drops?
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
    Vital Links: POOL SCHOOL, RECOMMENDED LEVELS, RECOMMENDED CHEMICALS, Poolmath Calculator, SLAM, Chlorine/CYA CHART.
    If you enjoyed your TFP experience, please consider donating to Support TFP!

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: Few critical questions

    Testing is good. BUT, I forgot about the 4 chlorine pucks in the skimmers (2 in each of the 2 skimmers)...
    12x30x5, IG, 14000 gal., concrete, 1.0 hp Stealth SHPF pump, Booster pump, Jandy Lite 2 heater, Taylor K-2006C test kit

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