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Thread: Optimal Pump Speed

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    Optimal Pump Speed

    I have a TriStar variable speed pump running my water features (2 bubblers and 4 laminars). The valves on the water features are not fully opened setup was by the pool builder. Currently, when I have the water features at the height we like best the pump is running at 50% or 60% (depending on if I have all water features on or just the bubblers or the laminars).

    Given I have a variable speed pump, I started wondering last night if it would be more economical electricity wise if I were to open the valves fully for all the water features which would theoretically allow me to lower the pump speed and still achieve the same water feature height we have currently. Not sure if the savings would be worth the trouble since the water features run only a couple hours a day during the week days and 5 hours a day on the weekends.

    Any negatives to doing what I suggested above?

    Heck, Im still a little confused on how long to run the main water pump and at what percentage of speed (since it too is a variable speed pump) to achieve both efficiently and circulate the water daily. But I suppose that is another post unless anyone wants to take a stab at providing direction there also.
    Gallons 13,860 / IG Pebble / Hayward OmniLogic / Hayward Swim Clear Filter / Hayward EcoStar / Hayward TriStar VS (for water features) / Hayward HeatPro Heat Pump / Date of build 3/11/16 / Other features: Spa / Hayward Colorlogic LED lights (2 in pool / 1 in spa) / Pentair LED Bubblers (2 one on each sun shelf) / Pentair Color Cascade Laminars (4 around pool) / Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Optimal Pump Speed

    I also have 3 laminars on a dedicated variable speed pump and each laminar has it's own manual valve to control flow/height of the laminar. Until recently, none of the manual valves were fully open and I would just get all three the same height and then use the VSP to adjust flow/height of the laminars. I started experimenting with the flow valves in an attempt to decrease my rpm as much as possible. It really depends on your plumbing and how the flow was split, proximal or distal, in relation to each water feature. This is what I found. I could keep the farthest laminars wide open but the most proximal laminar had to closed slightly or else too much flow was diverted to that laminar and away from the others. Doing this, I was able to decrease the VSP by about 300 rpm for maximal energy savings. I'm like you, my laminars aren't on that much, but every penny saved is still money in your pocket.

    On a side note, the laminar arc angle can also be adjusted. I have all three side by side about 5 feet apart from each. I'm a little OCD and I wanted each arc to look the same. Man, now that was a pain in the a** to get each laminar as identical as possible.
    17k IG plaster pool+ spa, Stonescape mini-pebble midnight blue, marble coping, Trex and porcelain tile decking, Pentair Intelliflo VSP x 3 (filter, laminars and spa jets), Pentair IC40, Pentair MasterTemp 400, Pentair Quad DE 100, Pentair CC 150 for laminars, Intellibrite 5G LEDs, MagicStream Laminars x 3, Intellitouch i9+3 automation with Screenlogic2, IntellipH, Dolphin s300i, TFTest kit, SpeedStir

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    Re: Optimal Pump Speed

    I believe VS pumps are most efficient around 1000 RPMs.

    To adjust your water features you need to play around with different speeds and valve settings to get the desired outcome as each pool has its own flow characteristics depending on how it was plumbed.

    Read, Determining Pump Run Time, to help with your main pump.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: Optimal Pump Speed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocgasman View Post
    I also have 3 laminars on a dedicated variable speed pump and each laminar has it's own manual valve to control flow/height of the laminar. Until recently, none of the manual valves were fully open and I would just get all three the same height and then use the VSP to adjust flow/height of the laminars. I started experimenting with the flow valves in an attempt to decrease my rpm as much as possible. It really depends on your plumbing and how the flow was split, proximal or distal, in relation to each water feature. This is what I found. I could keep the farthest laminars wide open but the most proximal laminar had to closed slightly or else too much flow was diverted to that laminar and away from the others. Doing this, I was able to decrease the VSP by about 300 rpm for maximal energy savings. I'm like you, my laminars aren't on that much, but every penny saved is still money in your pocket.

    On a side note, the laminar arc angle can also be adjusted. I have all three side by side about 5 feet apart from each. I'm a little OCD and I wanted each arc to look the same. Man, now that was a pain in the a** to get each laminar as identical as possible.
    You definitely sound like you are a lot like me, lol. Ithink I will open the laminar bubbler values up and adjust from there and see how far I can get the RPM's down.

    I've run everything, pumps speed, etc. from the Omnilogic app on my iPad and haven't messed with the actual pumps really. I mention this because while my main pump is an EcoStar with a digital screen (which I assume shows RPMs), my water feature pump is a TriStar VS but there is no screen. Thus, I am assuming I won't be able to tell how much I end up lowering the RPMs?

    Everything in my mind to this point has been thought of in terms of what percentage the Ominlogic is telling me the pump is running. If for example a pum runs most efficiently at 1000 RPMs I'm not sure how I will know I am at a certain number RPMs.
    Gallons 13,860 / IG Pebble / Hayward OmniLogic / Hayward Swim Clear Filter / Hayward EcoStar / Hayward TriStar VS (for water features) / Hayward HeatPro Heat Pump / Date of build 3/11/16 / Other features: Spa / Hayward Colorlogic LED lights (2 in pool / 1 in spa) / Pentair LED Bubblers (2 one on each sun shelf) / Pentair Color Cascade Laminars (4 around pool) / Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Optimal Pump Speed

    Quote Originally Posted by ping View Post
    IRead, Determining Pump Run Time, to help with your main pump.
    Very helpful. Sounds like it takes some experimentation of different settings to do right. Currently, the pool builder put the pump EcoStar at 50%, running 10 hours a day, and SWG is at 50%. Pool looks great but I guess that doesn't mean those settings are perfect).

    So it is all about experimentation? So, say I cut the pump percentage from 50% to 30% and see what happens, or lower the number of hours the pump is on and see what happens and monitor chlorine levels to see if an adjustment is also needed to that percentage?

    Is it better to try one change before the other? Like lower pump speed first and check. Then lower hours, etc.
    Gallons 13,860 / IG Pebble / Hayward OmniLogic / Hayward Swim Clear Filter / Hayward EcoStar / Hayward TriStar VS (for water features) / Hayward HeatPro Heat Pump / Date of build 3/11/16 / Other features: Spa / Hayward Colorlogic LED lights (2 in pool / 1 in spa) / Pentair LED Bubblers (2 one on each sun shelf) / Pentair Color Cascade Laminars (4 around pool) / Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Optimal Pump Speed

    There is a minimum speed to operate the flow switch on the SWG. But other than that, your pump speed will not affect the output of the SWG. Also a SWG always operates at 100%, when it is on. The control causes it to cycle on and off, so that 50% actually means it's on 50% and off 50%. It works kind of like a microwave, where the power is cycled on and off. So it makes no difference if you set it at 50% and run 10 hrs, 25% for 20 hrs, or 100% and 5 hrs. The result will be the same.

    With a SWG and a VS pump, you have lots of variables to play with. Slower speed saves a lot. You can experiment with shorter run time, lower speeds, multiple speed programming.

    I actually use several different speeds each day. One to clean the pool in the am, another to chlorinate, a third for extra filtration. Then I have a solar system that uses a different speed when needed to heat the pool.
    chiefwej
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    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Optimal Pump Speed

    Yes, definitely change only one variable at a time to see what works best. Your rate limiting step will most likely be the SWG and how long it needs to be on to generate the chlorine you need daily. Also, skimming time, how clean you want the pool to look, daily debris in the pool, etc all play a factor in how long to run your pump. In general, cost savings are maximal running the pump at the lowest speed possible to maintain flow to your SWG for appropriate time needed and skim as needed. I have my filter pump at 1700 RPMs, which is probably still more than I need, and boost the RPMs for 2 hours for skimming and spa mixing. I'm still experimenting and will most likely drop the 1700 even further.

    As for your water features, It really depends on how they were plumbed and what the distance and resistance is to each water feature and how high you like them, but I'm gonna take an educated guess that even if you knew the RPMs on that pump, it would be well over 1000 RPMs. 2 bubblers + 4 laminars just need a fair amount of flow and you'd probably be at least 1800 RPMs with all 6 running. Of course, flow needed decreases if running only one or the other. That's why it was very smart of you to get a VSP for the water features. I hope you have your water features on a filter, any debris that enters the line will eventually mess up the fiberoptic lighting on them.
    17k IG plaster pool+ spa, Stonescape mini-pebble midnight blue, marble coping, Trex and porcelain tile decking, Pentair Intelliflo VSP x 3 (filter, laminars and spa jets), Pentair IC40, Pentair MasterTemp 400, Pentair Quad DE 100, Pentair CC 150 for laminars, Intellibrite 5G LEDs, MagicStream Laminars x 3, Intellitouch i9+3 automation with Screenlogic2, IntellipH, Dolphin s300i, TFTest kit, SpeedStir

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    Re: Optimal Pump Speed

    Everyone has really given some great information to me in this thread! Thanks so much.
    Gallons 13,860 / IG Pebble / Hayward OmniLogic / Hayward Swim Clear Filter / Hayward EcoStar / Hayward TriStar VS (for water features) / Hayward HeatPro Heat Pump / Date of build 3/11/16 / Other features: Spa / Hayward Colorlogic LED lights (2 in pool / 1 in spa) / Pentair LED Bubblers (2 one on each sun shelf) / Pentair Color Cascade Laminars (4 around pool) / Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Optimal Pump Speed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocgasman View Post
    I hope you have your water features on a filter, any debris that enters the line will eventually mess up the fiberoptic lighting on them.
    Great advice. Actually, the pool builder came to the house a month ago unexpected and put one in (apparently they forgot when the pool was completed in late March). So, I have one now.
    Gallons 13,860 / IG Pebble / Hayward OmniLogic / Hayward Swim Clear Filter / Hayward EcoStar / Hayward TriStar VS (for water features) / Hayward HeatPro Heat Pump / Date of build 3/11/16 / Other features: Spa / Hayward Colorlogic LED lights (2 in pool / 1 in spa) / Pentair LED Bubblers (2 one on each sun shelf) / Pentair Color Cascade Laminars (4 around pool) / Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Optimal Pump Speed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocgasman View Post
    I also have 3 laminars on a dedicated variable speed pump and each laminar has it's own manual valve to control flow/height of the laminar.
    Speaking of laminars, have you ever tried the light output adjustment? The pic in the manual seems a little off based on my laminar - my lid is different, starting with the fact that there is a hole for the stream to shoot out of, lol. I wasn't sure if the adjusting screw is the screw I can access through the opening the water also shoots out of. The pics makes it look like it is on the bottom of the top lid.


    Gallons 13,860 / IG Pebble / Hayward OmniLogic / Hayward Swim Clear Filter / Hayward EcoStar / Hayward TriStar VS (for water features) / Hayward HeatPro Heat Pump / Date of build 3/11/16 / Other features: Spa / Hayward Colorlogic LED lights (2 in pool / 1 in spa) / Pentair LED Bubblers (2 one on each sun shelf) / Pentair Color Cascade Laminars (4 around pool) / Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Optimal Pump Speed

    I have not adjusted the light enhancer as I've been pretty satisfied with the factory light setting. As you know, the light is subtle until it thumps and then very easy to see. I might play with it later. One thing I did do tho, and might not be possible with Omnilogic, is control the laminar flow and lighting on separate circuits. So I can turn on the laminars without turning on the light/thumber for daytime use, so just a continuous smooth laminar stream without the thumper or unnecessary light during the day. The kids love playing with the giant arcs of water. I have my laminar pump programmed to make a small, medium or large arc all controlled through my iPhone. Love automation.
    17k IG plaster pool+ spa, Stonescape mini-pebble midnight blue, marble coping, Trex and porcelain tile decking, Pentair Intelliflo VSP x 3 (filter, laminars and spa jets), Pentair IC40, Pentair MasterTemp 400, Pentair Quad DE 100, Pentair CC 150 for laminars, Intellibrite 5G LEDs, MagicStream Laminars x 3, Intellitouch i9+3 automation with Screenlogic2, IntellipH, Dolphin s300i, TFTest kit, SpeedStir

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    Optimal Pump Speed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocgasman View Post
    One thing I did do tho, and might not be possible with Omnilogic, is control the laminar flow and lighting on separate circuits. So I can turn on the laminars without turning on the light/thumber for daytime use, so just a continuous smooth laminar stream without the thumper or unnecessary light during the day.
    I did the same thing exactly. As cool as the lights are at night, the laminars during the day with a nice quiet stream is awesome as well.

    I also ran then to where each laminar can be it's own color independently.

    And yes, the kiddos love them!




    Gallons 13,860 / IG Pebble / Hayward OmniLogic / Hayward Swim Clear Filter / Hayward EcoStar / Hayward TriStar VS (for water features) / Hayward HeatPro Heat Pump / Date of build 3/11/16 / Other features: Spa / Hayward Colorlogic LED lights (2 in pool / 1 in spa) / Pentair LED Bubblers (2 one on each sun shelf) / Pentair Color Cascade Laminars (4 around pool) / Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Optimal Pump Speed

    Lol, love it! Our pools are pretty similar and all about kid's enjoyment.
    17k IG plaster pool+ spa, Stonescape mini-pebble midnight blue, marble coping, Trex and porcelain tile decking, Pentair Intelliflo VSP x 3 (filter, laminars and spa jets), Pentair IC40, Pentair MasterTemp 400, Pentair Quad DE 100, Pentair CC 150 for laminars, Intellibrite 5G LEDs, MagicStream Laminars x 3, Intellitouch i9+3 automation with Screenlogic2, IntellipH, Dolphin s300i, TFTest kit, SpeedStir

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    Re: Optimal Pump Speed

    So, I got up this morning and attempted to adjust the flow to the laminars. Surprisingly, opening The valves all the way did not have much effect. Worth a try though.

    It's interesting with my 4 laminars that at 25% pump power they are only about a foot high, at 50% the are 3 feet and ideal height, at 75% they at the overwhelming point and at anything above to 100% they are literally shooting out of the pool. Definitely a powerful pump.




    Gallons 13,860 / IG Pebble / Hayward OmniLogic / Hayward Swim Clear Filter / Hayward EcoStar / Hayward TriStar VS (for water features) / Hayward HeatPro Heat Pump / Date of build 3/11/16 / Other features: Spa / Hayward Colorlogic LED lights (2 in pool / 1 in spa) / Pentair LED Bubblers (2 one on each sun shelf) / Pentair Color Cascade Laminars (4 around pool) / Taylor K-2006 Test Kit

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