16 July 2024 Finishing Up my OB Pool

[onBalance]

With your TA and CH at those levels, once the pH reaches 8.0, I would start adding acid to keep the pH below 8.0 but also above 7.6. And then after a few weeks, start lowering the pH to 7.2 (with acid, not CO2) to being lowering the TA to normal levels.

 

[setsailsoon]

With your TA and CH at those levels, once the pH reaches 8.0, I would start adding acid to keep the pH below 8.0 but also above 7.6. And then after a few weeks, start lowering the pH to 7.2 (with acid, not CO2) to being lowering the TA to normal levels.

OK, that makes sense. Definitely won't be doing CO2 until well after the first month or two. Could be longer if pool isn't stable at that point.

Thank you!

Chris

 

[Katodude]

CO2 might work long term. In the summer he wont be adding any fill water (rain will take care of that). It is really only in the shoulder season where there are warm days and cool nights (like right now) where there will be any evaporation. Frequent use of the spa might speed that up.

 

[setsailsoon]

16 April 2024 Update: Preparing for tile, plaster, pavers

After a month of waiting for concrete curing, final selection on plaster and a few things to build my automation mock up we are ready to start tile work Monday if my inspection on Friday goes well. All of the piping is set, pressured and ready. Fingers crossed for Friday.

Chris




4" from 3" from basin drains

Bubbler and LED runs to sun deck

 

[kimkats]

I am going to put this here just in case someone new is reading it:

Don't worry if the pressure in your pipes fluctuate a bit as the temps rise and lower.

Kim

 

[setsailsoon]

19 April 2024 Update

Folks,
Placed my last few orders for equipment and thought I'd add something about discount suppliers and brands. This pool is right at the edge of my budget so we've got to make tough decisions about where to economize. Here is what we've done in that regard:

• We're saving a LOT by owner building. This saves 30%+ (closer to 40% in my case because margins are through the roof and no end in sight to demand in FL). But that's not for everybody. The builder is responsible for everything and it's a lot of work. I would not recommend this as a first time effort for most people that have no experience. Try to do a smaller project like genset addition or similar first. Don't under-estimate how much time you'll need to spend taking on this role. You have to deal with everything from permitting to contractor selection/interface, quality management, equipment etc. There are lots of great accounts about being an OB'er on this site. Read up before you take the plunge (OK pun intended!)
• Excavation, concrete (or gunite), plumbing are permanent. It costs 3-5x to remove and reinstall concrete at least so absolutely no skimping here. I went with the largest and most reputable gunite supplier in Florida and the plant manager of the local operation still came out to my job plus I had many very helpful conversations with him about my job. I'm pretty sure the top 3 do great work. My final decision was nothing to do with price. They were all very similar. It had to do with my ability to work with them, quality and redundency of equipment and observation of their crews on jobs.
• Water your concrete daily for 30 days. This gives you 40% stronger at almost no cost in most areas of the country... even wet areas like Florida.
• Great pool equipment can be purchased for thousands less but be picky. My pool uses a 5 hp pump and it's expensive to use Pentair but I'm doing just that. This pump is the workhorse and heart of the pool. I could save a LOT by using cheaper brands but none have the metal castings, and years of manufacturing experience that Pentair does specifically with pumps. It also has great, and flexible automation capability. Also my supplier is Polytec that I've used for years and they have a great reputation here.
• Automation for this pool could easily cost $4000 even if I DIY it. So I'm going with Raspberry Pi that has a lot of support here and online. It's also been around for many years so the interface is very user friendly. Several TFP members have put a lot of work into this and I'm fortunate to have @Katodude living close. He's been incredibly helpful. This system will cost less than $1000. I'm making a final list of parts and will post it later along with cost.
• SWG isn't cheap and it also isn't optional anymore with my wife since we installed it on our previous pool. However it can be DIYed with 3rd party brands at a substantial savings compared to big 3 brands. 3rd party does have a minor (to me) issue that you can't control % power only duration with anything other than same brand as the automation. This may be changing with RS486 interface adapters soon but I'm not aware if this can be done yet. For me this is OK since % power is changed infrequently (every year or two) and slow degredation of the cell and seasonal FC need changes can be accomodated with run time. Using 3rd party will save me over $1000 compared to major brand. This comparison is complicated because if you use major brand automation there is bundled pricing, warranty policy, and $/lb FC claimed vs reality etc. The $1000 savings I'm achieving may not be right for you... this may be better addressed with a separate thread.
• My filter pump only needs to be running mostly at low speed. So I'm going to use one of the cheaper VS pumps that I can add a generic interface to for automation.
• Waterway makes filter housings much less cost than the major brands so I've purchased one from Inyopools.
• When looking for lower cost on non-critical equipment I found there are some available at almost "too good to be true" prices. And they are just that. Either a supplier that has horrible reviews and they often sell everything from kid's toys to pool equipment. Stayed away from all of them.
• Another thing to look at for non-major 3 suppliers is manual with parts breakdown and parts availability. I actually sampled the parts lists for items that may wear or need replacement in five years or so. For example on my filter I've heard on here that sometimes the manifold inside for the multi-cartridge filter cracks. So I looked up the part number and searched to check availability. I got pretty comfortable with Waterway filters doing this. There are several other brands I've never heard of before that have no parts availability. This could save me yet another couple hundred but not worth it to me.
• Last item to mention is the suppliers. I stuck with ones I've used or heard about good service on here such as Inyopools, Polytec, Circupool (discountsaltpool.com). Most of the time going to the absolute cheapest was nowhere near enough $ to take the chance.

Comments welcome and I hope this is helpful.

Chris

 

[setsailsoon]

19 April 2024 Update #2

Eye surgery caused me to be out of town while my plumber finished up. He's pretty good and you saw my photos that looked pretty good. But the proof's in the inspection result...Pipe and conduit to pad... We passed!! Equipotential Bonding is next Tuesday but we can start tile on Monday, yes!!! Will be working on my RPi mock up this weekend and final cabinet layouts this weekend.

Man, am I pumped!!

Chris

PS the eye surgery went great too! New IOD's (intra ocular devices). Now I can see 20/20 and read my phone with no glasses. Haven't see blue like this in decades. May even help with the pH test!

 

[ajw22]

PS the eye surgery went great too! New IOD's (intra ocular devices). Now I can see 20/20 and read my phone with no glasses. Haven't see blue like this in decades. May even help with the pH test!

My wardrobe looked different after my IOD. It has made life much more colorful.

 

[setsailsoon]

I should have mentioned the inspector was very impressed with the suction piping design. This is the first 4" suction pipe he's seen on a residential pool and he's seen quite a few that he thought should have one. Way to go @JamesW !

Chris

 

[setsailsoon]

20 April 2024 Update: Controls and other prep for tile start
Folks,

I mentioned several weeks ago I'm off the schedule and updating to the run down list. Next week the pool gets turned over to tile/plaster/paver sub. Normally there are several choices about sequence but on my combined zero and infinity edge design the top inside tile elevation must be right and as close to perfect as possible. We are calling that 1/16" initially set by lazer level and double checked with zip level. In parallel with this work I need to start setting equipment and setting up the controls. If I was installing a traditional automation from one of the big 3" I'd have the control layout pre-set with one of their cabinets that has a neat layout of breakers, HV relays, and control board with inside dividers to channel separately LV and HV signals. For a DIY RPi set up I have to do this myself with separate cabinets. Below is my first pass at that. I'll also use separate cabinets that are readily available NEMA certified and vented where needed. They will cost several hundred $ in all but still less than half the cost of a major brand cabinet. One of the things I'm realizing is that with this design I don't have to control everything with the standard 3 HP relays. LED lights can be with much smaller relays appropriate for their power level. Since I have 3 separate sets of lights I want to be independent of each other this only requires 3 fairly small DIN mounted relays. DIN rails make this easy and neat... wish I could take credit but I saw this a long time ago when @MyAZPool set the standard for neat installations. One of the advantages of putting together a layout drawing is I can see ways to improve before I'm mounting and drilling on the stucco wall beside my house. For example, there's really no need for a separate HV relay box. I can do all the HV stuff in one box by combining it with the LV transformers. These will supply different low level voltages like 5vc for the RPi, 24vac for actuators. LED's require a specially rated transformer to meet code so it's just easier and cheaper to buy the box with transformer already mounted inside (less than $100).

Next I'll get the boxes ordered and start setting up the mock up on my work bench outside.

Comments or questions welcomed and I hope this is helpful.

Chris

 

[Katodude]

Btw. You can power the Rpi with 24vac. The megabas board will take that and the power the Pi. No need for a 5v power supply

 

[setsailsoon]

Btw. You can power the Rpi with 24vac. The megabas board will take that and the power the Pi. No need for a 5v power supply

Wow! That's great to know. Do I still still connect with the usb c? Using one of these I assume?


I'm planning to have a DIN rail mounted supply mounted in the transformer box that will be mounted close to control board box. Then supply several connectors linked to supply 24vac to actuators etc. Very easy to just add one more terminal.

Chris

 

[Katodude]

No!!! Do not plug 24v into the USB C. You will not power the Pi directly.

You will send power to the MegaBas board. There is one of those plug in style connectors. I think it is the only 2 wire one. The MegaBas can take 24v AC or DC power and then power the rest of the hats and the Pi.

 

[setsailsoon]

Here's the enclosures I'm planning to use:


I'll add side mounted fans for ventilation.

Chris

No!!! Do not plug 24v into the USB C. You will not power the Pi directly.

You will send power to the MegaBas board. There is one of those plug in style connectors. I think it is the only 2 wire one. The MegaBas can take 24v AC or DC power and then power the rest of the hats and the Pi.

View attachment 566037

Thanks Andy! That's way easier... kind of difficult to find high amp din rail power supplies for 24vac. Will probably just mount a 24 vac transformer in the power supply box to supply the actuator's 24vac and run a separate 5 amp 24vdc din mount for the RPi power. Here's the one I ordered:



I sure is nice to know you have my back on this RPi stuff!

Chris

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Chris -

Make sure you have a surge protector installed on the incoming high voltage power bus. SquareD makes a very good one that’s easy to install. You live in a place with lightening strikes and storms. You absolutely need to protect that equipment from surges. Even transient surges and brown-outs can stress everything.

 

[Katodude]

Thanks Andy! That's way easier... kind of difficult to find high amp din rail power supplies for 24vac. Will probably just mount a 24 vac transformer in the power supply box to supply the actuator's 24vac and run a separate 5 amp 24vdc din mount for the RPi power.

Why not just run some wire from the box where the 24VAC is into the box with the Pi and power it that way. No need for another power supply. You are running wires to the actuators, just run wires to the pi.

 

[Katodude]

Duh, wait, wait, wait. You are already having to run 24VAC into the box with the Pi. It’s going to the relays to power the actuators.

 

[setsailsoon]

Chris -

Make sure you have a surge protector installed on the incoming high voltage power bus. SquareD makes a very good one that’s easy to install. You live in a place with lightening strikes and storms. You absolutely need to protect that equipment from surges. Even transient surges and brown-outs can stress everything.

Matt,
Thanks! I have one on the main supply and meant to add one for the sub panel but completely forgot. Will add one in the sub panel... I'll need to replace with a Sub-Panel that has a few more breakers but it's worth it. It took 5 years before my last house got a strike to a tree 5' away. It destroyed my I-aqualink wifi module and main board plus the cameras and the was the root cause of my old Jandy heater nightmare... you'd think I'd remember!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Matt,
Thanks! I have one on the main supply and meant to add one for the sub panel but completely forgot. Will add one in the sub panel... I'll need to replace with a Sub-Panel that has a few more breakers but it's worth it. It took 5 years before my last house got a strike to a tree 5' away. It destroyed my I-aqualink wifi module and main board plus the cameras and the was the root cause of my old Jandy heater nightmare... you'd think I'd remember!

Yeah. I just worry about the expensive 5HP VSPs you have … you want to protect them at all costs … maybe install lightening rods on all your neighbors’ houses (a “gift” from you as you care so much about their safety )

 

[setsailsoon]

22 April 2024 Update: Tiles on back order, ugh!

I hate it when this happens but it's more common these days. At least it's only a couple days. Our plaster and pavers are already ordered and in stock at the warehouse. We got great confirmation on Azure (Florida Stucco) after looking at @Katodude 's pool. He has white plaster that has mostly blue pebbles and it looks very even blue color since the plaster takes on the blue hue from the pebbles. That's what they have in Azure. Big advantage is it's way less susceptible to color blotching and even better Robin has seen it and loves it! With the delay I finally have time to dig in to figure out how to use Nodejs. @Katodude set it up on my RPi and now I feel like I'm drinking from a fire hydrant trying to figure it out. I've gotten so immersed that I'm using the Pi to connect to TFP... just easier than switching back and forth computers.

Also, went by my local pool store to find a good local source for liquid chlorine. Pinch a Penny has it for $10/2.5 gal jug and a free jug with each one filled. So $5 each... used to be $3 pre-covid. At least I'll only be jug-lugging for 30 days or so 'till l fire up the swg.

Chris